TOTALLY GEEKED!

Domestic Engineer · Guru

RE: Do the Amish Drink Hard Liquor?

Tinydancer · Guru

Domestic Engineer wrote:
Actually, the Amish do pay taxes. They do not pay into social security, if they are self-employed, nor do they draw out of social security.

amishreligiousfreedom.org/amishfaq.htm

Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non- Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.

The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed.

I thought that was the case DE and thanks for this information as I was starting to think Amish bashing was the main purpose of this thread.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

The Amish are supposed to pay those taxes, just like they are supposed to NOT collect welfare. The Amish I know do NOT pay taxes and DO collect welfare. And they were happy to tell me that was the case.

And is it bashing if I am just telling you what they do? I have not called them names, I have not made fun of their religion, I have not belittled their lifestyle. I simply pointed out the issues I have with them saying one thing and doing the opposite.

Just because my experience with them is different than yours doesn't mean I am bashing them.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

You know, LGS, Ohfour and I all lived by and/or worked with the Amish and we all have the same experience. The three of us don't agree on much else but we agree on this. That's saying something.

Ohfour · Hooker

Oh, they most definitely do collect welfare. They get EBT cards. I've seen them use them. They are invading the county where our lake house is. Everyone hates them. They tried to open up a couple of stores, but they didn't last very long. Hopefully they will move along soon. We are making them feel quite unwelcome.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
You know, LGS, Ohfour and I all lived by and/or worked with the Amish and we all have the same experience. The three of us don't agree on much else but we agree on this. That's saying something.

Agree MM. Unless you have personal experience with them, its hard to comprehend.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

It seems that the ones with the idyllic views don't actually have them in their backyards like we do.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I just feel bad for all the contractors they drive out with their impossible to beat bids. When a contractor has to pay workers' comp insurance, taxes, etc and the Amish don't - the contractors can't compete. Same with the house cleaners and the Amish women who work as nannies. There is no way to compete with the wages they are willing to work for.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yup

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Btw NJN , there is no Bible verse that says " God helps those who help themselves". Lol

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Btw NJN , there is no Bible verse that says " God helps those who help themselves". Lol

I know you find this amusing. I am not ignorant and I do know that there is no such verse. However, there are many verses on lying, cheating, and stealing. And no, I'm not going to look those up and quote them. But I do know they are there. Yet some of the best "Christians" I know bilk the welfare system (and other government systems) for years. Some even for their whole lives. They lie, cheat, in essence, steal. That's just as wrong as what the Amish people do. I also know a person who considers herself a wonderful example of Christianity is and yet she's a huge drug addict and will rob you blind to get her fix. So what I am saying is that HM is right. Just because some do it doesn't mean that is the majority of the people in that religion.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

It appears this entire thread needs a reminder -

This board values free speech and hates censorship, but will not tolerate the following:

Hate speech - hate speech is an attack against a group of people for who they are.

Ohfour · Hooker

Seriously? I guess we aren't supposed to talk about ISIS or The Taliban, because that's just who they are...and they are following their religion.

Please explain the difference, cause I'm not seeing it. Both cause me grief, and if that's the way this board is going, I will find another one that welcomes discourse.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Seriously? I guess we aren't supposed to talk about ISIS or The Taliban, because that's just who they are...and they are following their religion.

Please explain the difference, cause I'm not seeing it. Both cause me grief, and if that's the way this board is going, I will find another one that welcomes discourse.

Really? You don't see what is wrong with this thread? You are attacking a group of people for who they ARE not what they do. The Taliban and ISIS are MURDERERS.

This whole thread was purposefully started for no purpose but Amish bashing and you gone along with it because you don't like what SOME of them do - which is the same as ANY group of people, religious or not.

And FYI - those Amish communities have been around quite a bit longer than most of the new businesses in growing cities, so the argument that people can't compete with them doesn't hold water - they CHOSE to do business in those areas. The Amish don't really move much, now do they? And while SOME of them might rebel against their Amish ways, that's completely normal in ANY group of people.

This thread is no different than a Christian bashing thread - it's just got a different target.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And I STILL haven't figured out how the hell buying WHISKEY makes them hypocrites?????

voiceofreason · Guru

My experience with the Amish is much different. I lived near an amish community for several years.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I know many people of many religions that drink and drink heavily. I don't know that it makes them hypocrites.

Ohfour · Hooker

I'm not attacking them for who they are. I'm attacking them for avoiding taxes yet sucking of the government teat, which is what they DO. All the while being exempt from hundreds of laws.

And yes. The Amish DO move. In the past year, they have infiltrated Trigg County, KY. They are ruining the roads. They are scamming older people out of money. They drive their buggies, rutting the road to my house, with a schit ton of kids in the back, and nary a car seat to be seen.

Why do I have play nice? I'm relating my experiences. All true. So relaying true experiences is now hate speech?

-- Edited by Ohfour on Saturday 31st of January 2015 10:38:42 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
I'm not attacking them for who they are. I'm attacking them for avoiding taxes yet sucking of the government teat, which is what they DO. All the while being exempt from hundreds of laws.

And yes. The Amish DO move. In the past year, they have infiltrated Trigger County, KY. They are ruining the roads. They are scamming older people out of money. They drive their buggies, rutting the road to my house, with a schit ton of kids in the back, and nary a car seat to be seen.

Why do I have play nice? I'm relating my experiences. All true. So relaying true experiences is now hate speech?

ALL of them do that?

And how do you know what taxes they pay?

And why do YOU get to determine who gets to use the roads? Cars, bicycles, buggies, pedestrians - they all get to use the roads. You don't have semi-trucks? Those ruin roads.

You are NOT relating your experiences - you are painting a broad stroke. What you are doing is the equivalent of saying I live near a black gang, so all blacks are murdering thieving thugs.

Ohfour · Hooker

We've had town meetings about them before. Its a HUGE problem where we own property. All Amish? Maybe not, but the ones in Trigg County are a drain on the community. And no, semi trucks are NOT allowed to drive on the roads they are ruining. Two axle vehicles only. These are back roads that were just fine until they moved into the county. And since they don't pay wheel taxes, they don't contribute to the upkeep of the roads the ruin.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
We've had town meetings about them before. Its a HUGE problem where we own property. All Amish? Maybe not, but the ones in Trigg County are a drain on the community. And no, semi trucks are NOT allowed to drive on the roads they are ruining. Two axle vehicles only. These are back roads that were just fine until they moved into the county. And since they don't pay wheel taxes, they don't contribute to the upkeep of the roads the ruin.

You've had town meetings about the Amish? Wow, you are a whole town of intolerant folks. Do you even understand how wrong that sounds? It's like the Ku Klux Klan against the Amish. The Amish have been in this country a very long time - they have just as much right to be here as anyone. And LOTS of people who use the roads do not pay "wheel taxes". Just like lots of people that use the schools don't pay property taxes.

And you are QUITE wrong about the rest of the taxes - the Amish pay taxes just like the rest of us - the only exception is social security, and they don't receive those benefits.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And BTW - how do you think the Amish feel about the nasty emissions pollution hitting their farms? Cars are the new intruders - not horses and buggies.

Ohfour · Hooker

Not just a town, a friggin COUNTY. Our back roads are trash because they of their buggies. We are trying to get the buggies banned (several cities have been successful with this). Hopefully, that will encourage them to move along.

Ohfour · Hooker

And I know they don't pay wheel taxes. Yet, they use and damage the roads more than anyone else...

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
And BTW - how do you think the Amish feel about the nasty emissions pollution hitting their farms? Cars are the new intruders - not horses and buggies.

Not in Trigg County.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
And BTW - how do you think the Amish feel about the nasty emissions pollution hitting their farms? Cars are the new intruders - not horses and buggies.

They dont mind having their behinds sitting in them and driven around?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Not just a town, a friggin COUNTY. Our back roads are trash because they of their buggies. We are trying to get the buggies banned (several cities have been successful with this). Hopefully, that will encourage them to move along.

Then they simply haven't been challenged. Kentucky laws are VERY friendly to the Amish. In fact, after a debacle regarding those orange triangles on the buggies - the State Legislators passed a bill to give them an alternative. So, I would not think any ban would stand up to a legal challenge - but if your county wants to be the test case for that - have at it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And BTW - how do you think the Amish feel about the nasty emissions pollution hitting their farms? Cars are the new intruders - not horses and buggies.
They dont mind having their behinds sitting in them and driven around?

It is quite obvious you don't understand the REASONING behind the Amish not owning and driving cars. They believe in a close knit community - and having everyone own and drive cars sends people all over the place - heck, how many people commute more than an hour by car a day? There are times when car travel is prudent - and they hire it out, but they are not driving or owning the cars.

The eschew the modern conveniences of the world so as not to be distracted from the importance of community and family and God.

You've never heard of families that get rid of their TVs so they have more quality family time? Same concept.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I hate the Amish, they are disgusting animal abusers.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Okay, okay, I don't hate all Amish *eyeroll*

But as a whole, yes, they horribly abuse their animals and get away with it. It makes me sick.

tlc · Regular

VetteGirl wrote:
Okay, okay, I don't hate all Amish *eyeroll*

But as a whole, yes, they horribly abuse their animals and get away with it. It makes me sick.

They are why Iowa is has one of the highest number of puppy mills. We have a large Amish population also.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Once again, if you read my posts, I never said ALL Amish. I did say "the Amish I know". I never made fun of their religion, I never used hate speech, I never called them names. All I did was recount what the Amish that I knew did...which included several things against their own religion.

And no, they were not in our area first either. I lived in a town that was an old fortress and settled as such. The Amish moved in much later from their settlement in Pennsylvania to the city in Indiana where I lived. It was surrounded by farmland and their first jobs in the area were as farm hands, putting dozens of people out of work because they were willing to work for low wages.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I've never had a problem with the Amish population around here. They tend to keep a low profile. The men don't usually talk to you but I think that's more of a cultural thing than a rudeness thing. I don't think men and women really socialize together. That's JMO. The women don't usually start up a conversation but are polite and kind. If you talk to them they are very eager to talk to you. They are always pleasant and answer any questions we have. Sometimes we talk to them about their farming and their mill. They're always pleased to share with us. I've never had an issue with them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The Amish are exempt from compulsory the school laws. If my kid has 3 unexcused abscences , I get threatened by the district magistrate. The Amish are exempt from Obamacare mandates even thhough they use the health care system. They are exempt from OSHA guidelines for wearing hard hats. So why can't opt out if payroll taxes too? And I am pretty sure that most other Christians are worshipping the same God.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The Amish quietly go about living their lives. Which is exactly what the rest of us want . But more and more we are a countrywhere everyone has ddifferent rules. I would gladly sign a waiver exempting myself from govt aid and that money I paid out in Fica and other taxes I could have invested that for my family and retirement. Why can they have an exemption and we cant? That's a fair question.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Do the Amish pay taxes?

Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non- Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.

The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed.

Is it true the Amish are exempt from Medicare and Medicaid withholding? What legal basis is used for this?

Medicare and Medicaid are a part of the Social Security system. Old Order Amish believe that if the church is faithful to its calling, many government programs and commercial insurance are not needed. That conviction forced them to testify before Congress because they did not want to receive Social Security benefits. What they wanted instead was the right to look after their own elderly. They were finally given approval, if self-employed, to be exempt from paying the tax. Seldom do Old Order Amish individuals accept Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.

http://amishreligiousfreedom.org/amishfaq.htm#top

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Wow...just wow!

I think LGS, ohfour and MM related their personal experiences without being "hateful."

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The Amish quietly go about living their lives. Which is exactly what the rest of us want . But more and more we are a countrywhere everyone has ddifferent rules. I would gladly sign a waiver exempting myself from govt aid and that money I paid out in Fica and other taxes I could have invested that for my family and retirement. Why can they have an exemption and we cant? That's a fair question.

Obviously you need more whiskey...

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And they home school in a practical, hands on way that our kids will never be able to do.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't really care what they do. But, don't try to play up the Wholesome image when they are not.

Apparentlly, you do. You really do.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Do the Amish pay taxes?
Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non- Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.
The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed.
Is it true the Amish are exempt from Medicare and Medicaid withholding? What legal basis is used for this?
Medicare and Medicaid are a part of the Social Security system. Old Order Amish believe that if the church is faithful to its calling, many government programs and commercial insurance are not needed. That conviction forced them to testify before Congress because they did not want to receive Social Security benefits. What they wanted instead was the right to look after their own elderly. They were finally given approval, if self-employed, to be exempt from paying the tax. Seldom do Old Order Amish individuals accept Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
http://amishreligiousfreedom.org/amishfaq.htm#top

Their health plan around here IS Medical Assistance. But if u want to keep copying and pasting from the internet then have at itn

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Well, if it's on the Interwebz, it must be true!

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ok. I'll just take you at your completely unbiased word then.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I think what is found on the internet or in official documents is how it is supposed to work, but as we all know, there are always many exceptions to any law or regulations. There are also multiple sectors of Amish; some more "orthodox" than others. I have experienced the less orthodox groups breaking Amish tradition. Not when it comes to healthcare, but indeed with taxes. Years ago, DS and I drove through PA, through Amish country. They did not collect sales tax on any good or service we bought. We even got a ride in one of the buggies, which is supposed to be a no-no for them.

FNW · Guru

Their sheds are pretty popular in the Mid-Atlantic. And as far as being cheap, I've dined at some of their family style restaurants, and believe me, they ain't cheap.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The Amish are exempt from compulsory the school laws. If my kid has 3 unexcused abscences , I get threatened by the district magistrate. The Amish are exempt from Obamacare mandates even thhough they use the health care system. They are exempt from OSHA guidelines for wearing hard hats. So why can't opt out if payroll taxes too? And I am pretty sure that most other Christians are worshipping the same God.

You have the right to homeschool your children and then you wouldn't have to worry about that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VetteGirl wrote:
Okay, okay, I don't hate all Amish *eyeroll*

But as a whole, yes, they horribly abuse their animals and get away with it. It makes me sick.

So, as a whole - they all have puppy mills, and they all treat animals horribly?

Wow - that's quite the sweeping statement.

Let's see what I can sweep -

As a whole, football players are rapists.

As a whole, people who drink are alcoholics.

As a whole, people who use any public benefits are useless wastes to society.

That doesn't really work, now does it?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The Amish quietly go about living their lives. Which is exactly what the rest of us want . But more and more we are a countrywhere everyone has ddifferent rules. I would gladly sign a waiver exempting myself from govt aid and that money I paid out in Fica and other taxes I could have invested that for my family and retirement. Why can they have an exemption and we cant? That's a fair question.

Our teachers around here have that same exemption.

And you CAN apply for the exemption - of course it was in one of those pastes from the internet you obviously dismissed without reading -

"The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed."

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The Amish are exempt from compulsory the school laws. If my kid has 3 unexcused abscences , I get threatened by the district magistrate. The Amish are exempt from Obamacare mandates even thhough they use the health care system. They are exempt from OSHA guidelines for wearing hard hats. So why can't opt out if payroll taxes too? And I am pretty sure that most other Christians are worshipping the same God.
You have the right to homeschool your children and then you wouldn't have to worry about that.

Yes, but I still fall under those school laws. They don't.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The Amish quietly go about living their lives. Which is exactly what the rest of us want . But more and more we are a countrywhere everyone has ddifferent rules. I would gladly sign a waiver exempting myself from govt aid and that money I paid out in Fica and other taxes I could have invested that for my family and retirement. Why can they have an exemption and we cant? That's a fair question.
Our teachers around here have that same exemption.
And you CAN apply for the exemption - of course it was in one of those pastes from the internet you obviously dismissed without reading -
"The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed."

Except when the taxpayer is picking up the tab.