TOTALLY GEEKED!

Ohfour · Hooker

RE: Do the Amish Drink Hard Liquor?

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Manure disposal is highly regulated here. Gaga, do you have any kind of link about what kind of exemptions they have? I have never heard of a religious exemption for laws regulating farming practices.

I found more articles about them illegally dumping human sewage than farm manure....here's one...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/us/14amish.html

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Manure disposal is highly regulated here. Gaga, do you have any kind of link about what kind of exemptions they have? I have never heard of a religious exemption for laws regulating farming practices.
I found more articles about them illegally dumping human sewage than farm manure....here's one...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/us/14amish.html

So, these are strict old order that don't use electricity or running water in their homes, and yet the local government wants to force them to put in a modern system with electronic monitoring on their private land. That is unreasonable. They upgraded the tank and they treat it.

"The Swartzentrubers agreed to improve the outhouses, adding a larger, 250-gallon holding tank and treating the waste with lime.

But they refused to follow state law, which called for installing a 5,000-gallon precast concrete tank and allowing someone certified by the state to use an electronic meter to test the waste’s chemical content. "

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Manure disposal is highly regulated here. Gaga, do you have any kind of link about what kind of exemptions they have? I have never heard of a religious exemption for laws regulating farming practices.
I found more articles about them illegally dumping human sewage than farm manure....here's one...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/us/14amish.html

So, these are strict old order that don't use electricity or running water in their homes, and yet the local government wants to force them to put in a modern system with electronic monitoring on their private land. That is unreasonable. They upgraded the tank and they treat it.

"The Swartzentrubers agreed to improve the outhouses, adding a larger, 250-gallon holding tank and treating the waste with lime.
But they refused to follow state law, which called for installing a 5,000-gallon precast concrete tank and allowing someone certified by the state to use an electronic meter to test the waste’s chemical content. "

Yep. For the good of the people. Their religious freedom doesn't trump public health.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

We'll see.

Ohfour · Hooker

Amish who refuse to use sewer lose appeal:

Fines levied against a Sugar Grove couple for violations of a sewage permit ordinance have been upheld by a state appeals court.

A panel of Commonwealth Court judges upheld the separate convictions of Joseph and Barbara Yoder for failing to connect a property, known as the Hardwood Mill Trust and the Yoder Family Trust, at 738 Catlin Rd. to the municipal sewer system as required.

On Jan. 5, 2012, Judge Gregory Hammond sentenced the Yoders each to pay a fine of $300 and costs of prosecution for the violations.

The original private criminal complaint in the matter was filed by the Sugar Grove Area Sewer Authority.

The Yoders filed an appeal to the sentence based on questions over conduct and decisions of the Common Pleas court during court proceedings.

Specifically, the appeal questioned whether the court should have dismissed the Sugar Grove authority's case, whether Hammond conducted himself appropriately at the hearing of the case and whether the court should have provided an interpreter to the Yoders, whose native tongue is Pennsylvania Dutch.

The appeals court ruled the Yoders failed to, "Concisely identify each ruling or error that the appellant intends to challenge with sufficient detail to identify all pertinent issues," according to an opinion on the matter authored by Senior Judge Rochelle Friedman.

In their appeal documents, the Yoders stated, "The trial court erred by not dismissing case," and, "(the trial judge) conducted himself improperly," without citing specific errors or conduct, according to the opinion.

As to the issue of an interpreter, the opinion noted the Pennsylvania Judicial Code, "provides that an interpreter shall be appointed, 'if the presiding judicial officer (in this case Hammond) determines that a principal party... has a limited ability to speak or understand English'." As a result, the appeals court found the decision whether to appoint an interpreter, "within the trial judge's sound discretion."

The Yoders claimed they required an interpreter as their native language is Pennsylvania Dutch, but Hammond ruled documents filed by the Yoders pursuant to the issue, "demonstrated an ample understanding of the English language." Hammond also monitored the Yoders' understanding of trial proceedings and determined, "they both understood the questions asked of them and responded appropriately."

The fines are just the latest development in a long-running dispute between the Yoders and the Sugar Grove authority concerning the Hardwood Trust property.

In August 2006, the authority notified the Yoders that the property was situated within 150 feet of the public sewer system and therefore must be connected to it by statute.

Connecting to the system would have required making provisions to provide electricity for a grinder pump at the property, which does not currently have electrical service.

In April 2008, the authority and the Yoders negotiated an alternate agreement for the handling of sewage at the property. The agreement allowed the Yoders to pump and transport sewage to the authority's pumping station on Route 957 in lieu of connecting to the system.

In September 2010, Frantz and Russell Sanitary Service transported sewage from the Yoder property to a waste treatment center in Jamestown, N.Y., rather than to the authority pumping station.

In October 2010, the Yoders were served notice to correct the violation within 30 days or be required to connect to the sewer system. Failure to connect to the system within 30 days would result in the Yoders being in violation of the municipal sewer ordinance.

At the time of the notice, the Yoders had not made payments for waste deposit as required by the 2008 agreement since August 2010.

No action was taken to connect to the system.

In January 2010, the authority sent the Yoders a notice of obligation to connect to the sewer system and filed court documents seeking an injunction to allow the authority to connect the property to the sewer system and install electrical service needed for the grinder pump at the Yoders' expense. The same court filing requested an injunction to remove the Yoders and their family from the property until actions to bring the property out of violation with the sewer ordinance could be completed.

The filing noted the Yoders refused to run electricity at the property, or to allow service on the right-of-way or the installation of a generator as alternate means of powering the grinder pump.

All court filings and responses for the Yoders were filed and signed by Joseph Yoder. No attorney was listed for the Yoders on any court documents.

Yoder's filings were in English and demonstrated and repeatedly utilized legal terminology, demonstrating an understanding of the terms used.

For example, in one filing, Yoder stated, "...I hereby rescind my signature on said contract and declare said contract to be void ab initio for mistakes..."

Ab initio is a Latin term meaning "from the beginning" used in legal terminology to denote something has been the case from the start.

Joseph Yoder signed and was the only name on the filing.

Ohfour · Hooker

Padlocked doors on two homes and a schoolhouse in Cambria County, Pa., are symbols of the conflicts that can erupt between the nation’s 245,000 Amish and state and local laws.

After months of negotiations between the Amish and the Cambria County Sewage Enforcement Agency, a judge in 2009 ordered that the buildings be closed until the owners comply with state rules requiring building and sewage permits. Outhouses were illegally emptied onto fields, prompting complaints.

“Religious rights don’t allow you the right to pollute somebody’s water supply,” says Deborah Sedlmeyer, executive director of the Cambria County enforcement agency.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

Yes, they should have to conform, and little by little, they are being made to. If you don't adapt, you die out. Sweetness's family was here LONG before the Amish, yet they have been forced to adapt.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

And hopefully, he will be in jail until he complies with the law.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

Yes, they should have to conform, and little by little, they are being made to. If you don't adapt, you die out. Sweetness's family was here LONG before the Amish, yet they have been forced to adapt.

Why? Why do they have to become modern? And they are not dying out - they are growing. Wasn't that your complaint before? And there are more and more people who are not Amish that are choosing to live off the grid - how are they being forced to adapt?

You are just really anxious to erode religious freedoms even more, aren't you? Don't complain about Christian freedoms being overrun when you have no respect for anyone elses'.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

Yes, they should have to conform, and little by little, they are being made to. If you don't adapt, you die out. Sweetness's family was here LONG before the Amish, yet they have been forced to adapt.
Why? Why do they have to become modern? And they are not dying out - they are growing. Wasn't that your complaint before? And there are more and more people who are not Amish that are choosing to live off the grid - how are they being forced to adapt?
You are just really anxious to erode religious freedoms even more, aren't you? Don't complain about Christian freedoms being overrun when you have no respect for anyone elses'.

I didn't say they were growing, I said they were moving. They must become more modern for the safety of the rest of the law abiding citizens.

How are people off living off the grid being forced to adapt? By law:

Florida Makes Off-Grid Living Illegal – Mandates All Homes Must Be Connected To Electricity & Water Gridhttp://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/09/florida-makes-off-grid-living-illegal-mandates-all-homes-must-be-connected-to-an-electricity-grid/

Religious freedoms do not trump my safety ofr that of my kids'. Sorry. Live how you want, but don't let it affect me. Not properly getting rid of your sewage affect me.

-- Edited by Ohfour on Monday 2nd of February 2015 10:06:28 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
That is a distinctly different case, with bad court filings and in a court that is not the final say. Mr. Yoder did not have an attorney - which is unfortunate, he likely would have had a different outcome.

And he still isn't going to do it, which means it will be back in court.

The Amish have been around there a lot longer than the modern conveniences - between their religious freedom, and the fact that they have been there for generations, they should not have to conform to the modern world - the modern world needs to work around them.

Yes, they should have to conform, and little by little, they are being made to. If you don't adapt, you die out. Sweetness's family was here LONG before the Amish, yet they have been forced to adapt.
Why? Why do they have to become modern? And they are not dying out - they are growing. Wasn't that your complaint before? And there are more and more people who are not Amish that are choosing to live off the grid - how are they being forced to adapt?
You are just really anxious to erode religious freedoms even more, aren't you? Don't complain about Christian freedoms being overrun when you have no respect for anyone elses'.
I didn't say they were growing, I said they were moving. They must become more modern for the safety of the rest of the law abiding citizens.
How are people off living off the grid being forced to adapt? By law:
Florida Makes Off-Grid Living Illegal – Mandates All Homes Must Be Connected To Electricity & Water Gridhttp://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/09/florida-makes-off-grid-living-illegal-mandates-all-homes-must-be-connected-to-an-electricity-grid/
Religious freedoms do not trump my safety ofr that of my kids'. Sorry. Live how you want, but don't let it affect me. Not properly getting rid of your sewage affect me.

-- Edited by Ohfour on Monday 2nd of February 2015 10:06:28 AM

So people in Florida can move to Montana. And the Amish are growing - a lot.

If the local government wants new treatments - they are going to have to figure out a way that doesn't infringe on their religious freedoms and is not electronic. I'm sure the Amish would be ok with that since they have been so nice - as even your articles state, they were extremely pleasant to deal with.

Perhaps they could tell them about this one that can run on solar power instead of arresting them. It's not like the Amish have Google at their fingertips -

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Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Actually the Amish DO have google at their fingertips. They can use their iPhones.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Actually the Amish DO have google at their fingertips. They can use their iPhones.

That is very few Amish. I thought you weren't lumping them all together? Riiiiiiight.

voiceofreason · Guru

WWJD?

Ohfour · Hooker

It's not cheap. But hey, if Amish are willing to spend about $20K per house in the community, go for it. Just make them do SOMETHING. And make THEM pay for it.

Ohfour · Hooker

voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?

encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...

And love one another...

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...

Unless is goes against the word of God.

Romans 12:2New International Version (NIV)

²Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan

Love the criminal, not the crime...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan

Yes. That is the greatest commandment.

But obviously, roads are more important than people.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
Unless is goes against the word of God.

Romans 12:2New International Version (NIV)
²Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 13:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ²Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

⁶This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. ⁷Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan
Love the criminal, not the crime...

Using a horse and buggy on the road is not a crime.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan
Yes. That is the greatest commandment.
But obviously, roads are more important than people.

Actually, I was referring to the pollution. I should have made myself clear.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan
Yes. That is the greatest commandment.
But obviously, roads are more important than people.

No it's not...

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’^[a] ³⁸This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’^[b] ⁴⁰All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And I do love my neighbor, but expect them to follow the same laws...

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan
Love the criminal, not the crime...
Using a horse and buggy on the road is not a crime.

Not adhering to environmental standards is.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
WWJD?
encourage people to obey the law...He really kinda encouraged that...
And love one another...
flan
Love the criminal, not the crime...
Using a horse and buggy on the road is not a crime.
Not adhering to environmental standards is.

"All authority has been given Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you." (Mathew 28:18-20a) Human authority of any kind has no authority over doing the will of God.

When man's law and God's law contradict - God's law prevails. To those who follow it, anyway. Whether you agree with their interpretation of the Bible is irrelevant - they believe the Bible commands they do not submit to worldly ways.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Actually the Amish DO have google at their fingertips. They can use their iPhones.
That is very few Amish. I thought you weren't lumping them all together? Riiiiiiight.

Ummm...it's called a joke. But ok.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Actually the Amish DO have google at their fingertips. They can use their iPhones.
That is very few Amish. I thought you weren't lumping them all together? Riiiiiiight.
Ummm...it's called a joke. But ok.

Your comments on this thread have not struck me as funny. And you forgot your emoticon.

Ohfour · Hooker

They have no Biblical basis for what they do. If they do, then they should revert back to Biblical times and do exactly what was done then. No progress from that time at all. They should not enjoy ANY ANY modern conveniences. They use their "religion" to skirt laws they don't like.

Ohfour · Hooker

Like paying taxes they don't agree with...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
They have no Biblical basis for what they do. If they do, then they should revert back to Biblical times and do exactly what was done then. No progress from that time at all. They should not enjoy ANY ANY modern conveniences. They use their "religion" to skirt laws they don't like.

So, you are in charge of telling them what their beliefs are? What is okay and what is not? They are not one large church - they have different orders that interpret it differently - but you think others should be in charge of determining what that is?

And again - your posts show an ignorance of WHY the Amish eschew modern technology - it is about what would interfere with community and tie them to the outside world. Power itself isn't evil to them, it is what it brings - television, computers, etc., the things that distract them from God, family and community.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Like paying taxes they don't agree with...

Sigh. They do pay taxes. The only thing they don't pay is social security - and they don't draw it. And if you belong to a group that meets the exemption - you don't have to pay it, either. And it's not like they are the only ones that are exempt.

Ohfour · Hooker

I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...

They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And for the record, they actually do pay social security taxes if they are employed by outside employers.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.

They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And let's not forget - they pay property and school taxes even though they don't use our schools.

Ohfour · Hooker

Free Riders they are:

In economics, the free rider problem occurs when those who benefit from resources, goods, or services do not pay for them, which results in either an under-provision of those goods or services, or in an overuse or degradation of a common property resource.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
And let's not forget - they pay property and school taxes even though they don't use our schools.

Some do, some don't. And lets not forget those silly Child Labor Laws that they don't have to adhere to...

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.

Do other buggy riders pay the taxes? It is just the Amish that do not pay taxes on buggies?

Ohfour · Hooker

cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.
Do other buggy riders pay the taxes? It is just the Amish that do not pay taxes on buggies?

Who else uses buggies?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.

They are exempt because they don't buy the products the government has chosen to tax for that purpose. They do pay property taxes, which in many states contributes to road upkeep. The fact that your state or county chooses the funding measures for the roads that do not require payment by the Amish is not thier fault.

Our lottery funds pre-K and college Hope scholarships - even for those people who have never bought a lottery ticket.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.
They are exempt because they don't buy the products the government has chosen to tax for that purpose. They do pay property taxes, which in many states contributes to road upkeep. The fact that your state or county chooses the funding measures for the roads that do not require payment by the Amish is not thier fault.
Our lottery funds pre-K and college Hope scholarships - even for those people who have never bought a lottery ticket.

Lottery tickets are not a tax.

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.
Do other buggy riders pay the taxes? It is just the Amish that do not pay taxes on buggies?
Who else uses buggies?

I take it then that they are not exempt because of their religion but because of the vehicle?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And let's not forget - they pay property and school taxes even though they don't use our schools.
Some do, some don't. And lets not forget those silly Child Labor Laws that they don't have to adhere to...

Wow. You REALLY hate the Amish. They are family members working the farms. The law carves out exceptions for ALL family run businesses - not just the Amish.

Next.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.
They are exempt because they don't buy the products the government has chosen to tax for that purpose. They do pay property taxes, which in many states contributes to road upkeep. The fact that your state or county chooses the funding measures for the roads that do not require payment by the Amish is not thier fault.
Our lottery funds pre-K and college Hope scholarships - even for those people who have never bought a lottery ticket.

Lottery tickets are not a tax.

Fine. Cigarette taxes pay for lots of things, as do alchohol taxes. If you don't buy them - you are not contributing, and yet you may benefit. Here are some examples of what cigarette taxes pay for -

Where Does the Money Go?

Cigarette taxes and settlement agreement funds are supposed to fund youth smoking prevention programs and other tobacco-related public health programs, but that’s not always where the money really goes. Instead, more and more of your taxes are used to fund causes and projects unrelated to tobacco control. Here are just a few of the projects funded by your MSA dollars:

New York

Dump trucks, golf carts and a course irrigation system, and a new county jail

Virginia

Broadband cable networks

New Jersey

Psychiatric care for prisoners

Alabama

Boot camps for juvenile delinquents; alternative schools

Nevada

Upgrading public television stations with DVD technology

Alaska

Harbor renovation and museum expansion

South Carolina

Water and sewer improvements

Michigan

Pasture and weather monitoring for a thoroughbred association in Kentucky

Kentucky

College scholarships

California

City parks and the purchase of undeveloped land

Illinois

A senior citizen prescription-drug program and property-tax rebates

Maine

Medicaid dental services

North Dakota

Water Resources Trust Fund and flood-control projects

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And let's not forget - they pay property and school taxes even though they don't use our schools.
Some do, some don't. And lets not forget those silly Child Labor Laws that they don't have to adhere to...
Wow. You REALLY hate the Amish. They are family members working the farms. The law carves out exceptions for ALL family run businesses - not just the Amish.

Next.

Many family-run businesses allow their children to help out in one way or another. If you chose to employ one or more of your children, it's important to remember that this decision will affect the way your business is taxed.

Payments made to a child who works for his or her parent are regulated by a different set of guidelines than a general employee. Generally speaking,

payments made to children working for a paren;s sole proprietorship or partnership where each partner is a parent may not be subject to social security or Medicare taxes. Additionally, payments made to children under the age of 21 (except those in situations mentioned above) may not be subject to Federal Unemployment tax. Tax information is always subject to change, so for the most up-to-date information, see IRS.gov.

Employment of a child is also affected by child labor law regulations. Although there are strict laws that detail appropriate jobs and hours based on age, children working for a parent generally fall under an exception to these laws. I-s important for parents to examine these laws closely because there are some instances where they are required to uphold the same standards as all other child employers. An example of this would be for those involved in a hazardous occupation- as determined by the Department of Labor. No parent is allowed to employ their child in one of these occupations if they are under the age of 16.

(except for the Amish...)

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I guess paying those pesky taxes (which is commanded in the Bible) is one of those distractions. Convenient for them...
They are LEGALLY exempt from paying social security taxes. And they pay the other taxes. If you are talking about that "wheel tax" of yours again - obviously your laws don't make them pay them.
They use and destroy the roads, yet, they are exempt from paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay for use and wear and tear. Because of their religion. It's a scam. They aren't stupid.
They are exempt because they don't buy the products the government has chosen to tax for that purpose. They do pay property taxes, which in many states contributes to road upkeep. The fact that your state or county chooses the funding measures for the roads that do not require payment by the Amish is not thier fault.
Our lottery funds pre-K and college Hope scholarships - even for those people who have never bought a lottery ticket.

Lottery tickets are not a tax.
Fine. Cigarette taxes pay for lots of things, as do alchohol taxes. If you don't buy them - you are not contributing, and yet you may benefit. Here are some examples of what cigarette taxes pay for -
Where Does the Money Go?
Cigarette taxes and settlement agreement funds are supposed to fund youth smoking prevention programs and other tobacco-related public health programs, but that’s not always where the money really goes. Instead, more and more of your taxes are used to fund causes and projects unrelated to tobacco control. Here are just a few of the projects funded by your MSA dollars:
New York
Dump trucks, golf carts and a course irrigation system, and a new county jail
Virginia
Broadband cable networks
New Jersey
Psychiatric care for prisoners
Alabama
Boot camps for juvenile delinquents; alternative schools
Nevada
Upgrading public television stations with DVD technology
Alaska
Harbor renovation and museum expansion
South Carolina
Water and sewer improvements
Michigan
Pasture and weather monitoring for a thoroughbred association in Kentucky
Kentucky
College scholarships
California
City parks and the purchase of undeveloped land
Illinois
A senior citizen prescription-drug program and property-tax rebates
Maine
Medicaid dental services
North Dakota
Water Resources Trust Fund and flood-control projects

Not the same things AT ALL. Cigarette and alcohol taxes are not a requirement for everyone with the exclusion of a subset of people. In order to use my road, I have to pay a wheel tax. In order for the Amish to use my road they have to just scream religion and go on their merry little way. This is singling out a group of people to be exempt rom laws that EVERYONE ELSE that uses these road and contributes to its wear and tear has to follow.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

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