TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dear Prudie: Dealing with Bipolar Adult Daughter

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

When she's in her manic state - commit her. You are her mother, get her the treatment she needs whether she "wants" it or not.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You can't just "commit" people anymore. And, you cannot commit an another adult who doesn't agree to be committed.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You can't just "commit" people anymore. And, you cannot commit an another adult who doesn't agree to be committed.

Yes, you can.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

If mom is worried that she is a danger to herself they can keep her 48 hours.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

No. She's an adult. She can sign herself out AMA.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Commitment can be for inpatient or outpatient treatment. But it is court-ordered treatment. Here are the state laws for the standards to commit people -

mentalillnesspolicy.org/studies/state-standards-involuntary-treatment.html

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Maybe instead of being "underemployed", if she was fully employed, she might not find as much time to be a problem!

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

My brother was involuntarily kept almost a week.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You can't just "commit" people anymore. And, you cannot commit an another adult who doesn't agree to be committed.
Yes, you can.

Yes you can. If they are a danger you can.

And underemployment has nothing to do with a bipolar person "choosing" their mood. It's a chemical imbalance. They don't control it. This woman refuses traditional medication. Without it her prognosis is dim.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Being a nasty bitch is not a medical indication for psychiatric commitment. Otherwise, there would be a whole hell of a lot of people locked away!

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Her paranoia can make her dangerous.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Being a nasty bitch is not a medical indication for psychiatric commitment. Otherwise, there would be a whole hell of a lot of people locked away!

She is diagnosed bipolar. Her behavior is a result of her condition and she is NOT taking medication. She needs to be committed and get medication.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If she is violent, threatening or hallucinating, fine. But, being a mean, nasty bitch is not a reason to commit, unfortunately!

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If she is violent, threatening or hallucinating, fine. But, being a mean, nasty bitch is not a reason to commit, unfortunately!

Until you walk in a bipolar's shoes you really can't make that call.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Also that is pretty rude to call her a "mean nasty bitch", try having a little compassion for someone with a severe mental disorder who can't always control her emotions and outbursts.

-- Edited by VetteGirl on Monday 2nd of February 2015 11:35:36 PM

chillepeppa · Regular

VetteGirl wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If she is violent, threatening or hallucinating, fine. But, being a mean, nasty bitch is not a reason to commit, unfortunately!
Until you walk in a bipolar's shoes you really can't make that call.

What Vette said...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Being a nasty bitch is not a medical indication for psychiatric commitment. Otherwise, there would be a whole hell of a lot of people locked away!

Seriously? Her moods and outbursts are a direct result of her mental illness. That makes her sick - not a bitch. Do you call developmentally delayed people retards, too?

WTF is wrong with this board, lately?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's how the LW said she is acting. I said that you can't commit someome involuntarily based on that.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Being a nasty bitch is not a medical indication for psychiatric commitment. Otherwise, there would be a whole hell of a lot of people locked away!
She is diagnosed bipolar. Her behavior is a result of her condition and she is NOT taking medication. She needs to be committed and get medication.

Which she will just stop taking as soon as she gets out.

I wonder if mom could find a support group that could give her have first-hand advice?

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

VetteGirl wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If she is violent, threatening or hallucinating, fine. But, being a mean, nasty bitch is not a reason to commit, unfortunately!
Until you walk in a bipolar's shoes you really can't make that call.

And you were the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread.

{hugs}

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She's an ADULT. She has the responsibility to take her medication. That isn't mom's responsibility. The same if you are diabetic or hypertensive or anything else. YOU have the responsibility to take care of YOU.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Though, I don't understand how dragging her off and committing her is somehow going to help the situation? I think it would be better to enlist the help of a therapist who can get her to understand that she needs to take her medication on a regular basis. Until she gains insight to do this, then committing her over and over isn't going to help.
Not sure why I am being labeled "mean" when you are the one who apparently think that Bipolar people NEED to be committed in the first place. Wow. Most bipolars I know are not violent or self harming, so who is the one setting up the mental illness stereotype? Wow.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

The mental illness keeps her from making the right decisions.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Here are the laws on Involuntary commitment in my State:

Involuntary Commitment (aka “a 302”)

An involuntary commitment is an application for emergency evaluation and treatment for persons who are "dangerous" to themselves or others due to a mental illness. Dangerousness is determined based on the following criteria:
•Danger to self shall be shown by establishing that within the previous 30 days: ◦the person would be unable without the care, supervision and assistance of others to satisfy his/her need for nourishment, personal or medical care, shelter or self protection or safety and that death or serious physical debilitation would occur within 30 days unless treatment was provided;
◦the person has attempted suicide or the person has made threats to commit suicide and committed acts in furtherance of the threats; or
◦the person has mutilated himself/herself or the person has made threats to mutilate and committed acts in furtherance of the threats.

•Danger to others shall be shown by establishing that within the previous 30 days the person has inflicted or attempted to inflict serious bodily harm on another or has threatened serious bodily harm and has committed acts in furtherance of the threat to commit harm to another.

Because this commitment is involuntary it may require the assistance of family, crisis professionals, police, ambulance and any other person involved in the crisis.

In every 302, a petitioner is required to sign the 302 and appear at a hearing, if necessary. A petitioner must have first-hand knowledge of the dangerous conduct and be willing to go to an emergency room or the Office of Behavioral Health (OBH), located at One Smithfield Street, to sign the 302 form.

The petitioner may be required to testify at a hearing regarding the dangerous conduct that he or she witnessed. A police officer or a doctor has the authority to initiate a 302 without prior authorization from the OBH delegate. The OBH delegate can be reached by calling 412-350-4457.

Once a 302 is authorized, the individual will be taken to an emergency room by the police or ambulance for an evaluation by a physician to determine if they need to be admitted for involuntary psychiatric inpatient treatment. If the individual is admitted they may be kept no longer than 120 hours unless a petition for a 303, Extended Emergency Involuntary Treatment, is filed by the hospital.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

My son's girlfriend's mother has Bipolar. And, she does make some poor choices. But, she isn't violent or self harming in any way nor do I know many Bipolars who are.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

we shouldn't be advocating that someone must be forced to take any medication, regardless of condition. The exception would be for those who are dangerous without it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
we shouldn't be advocating that someone must be forced to take any medication, regardless of condition. The exception would be for those who are dangerous without it.

Even if it's the illness itself that makes a person refuse medication?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, that's the grey area flan. Where do we FORCE adults to do things against their will? Is that what you are advocating?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, that's the grey area flan. Where do we FORCE adults to do things against their will? Is that what you are advocating?

No, but it's not that simple.

I'd like to hear Vette's views on the issue.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, that's the grey area flan. Where do we FORCE adults to do things against their will? Is that what you are advocating?
No, but it's not that simple.
I'd like to hear Vette's views on the issue.
flan

I didn't say it was. I didn't say it was as simple as just saying "commit her". I think that notion that Bipolar adults "need" committed seems an overreaction.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, that's the grey area flan. Where do we FORCE adults to do things against their will? Is that what you are advocating?

A person with an untreated mental illness cannot make rational decisions. This is her MOTHER, not some random stranger - and she could have her declared incompetant and become her guardian. Once she is her guardian - she can put her in a facility and require her to get help.

Kind of like Britney Spears' father did - and she was an adult, too. Actually - she is STILL under that guardianship.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Just because she has some angry outbursts does not qualify her as being an "incompetent" adult.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

OK, fine. Let's ask those with Bipolar. Do you want those around you to be able to declare you "incompetent" and easily have you committed when you are struggling a bit with your illness?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
OK, fine. Let's ask those with Bipolar. Do you want those around you to be able to declare you "incompetent" and easily have you committed when you are struggling a bit with your illness?

Struggling a bit? She won't take medication and goes manic for weeks at a time. I don't think you understand what that is like.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I didn't say I did. But, I wouldn't be calling the Paddy Wagon the instant it happens. I have struggled with my own issues of depression and it something I had to work through. So, no, I don't claim to understand Bipolar but I think commitment is for extreme circumstances, not the first Go To reaction.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And, you can't just declare someone "incompetent". Just because she is Mom doesn't mean her saying "oh she's incompetent" means the entire medical system will go along with her declaration. She would have to be legally declared incompetent and no mom does not get to make decisions for her if she isn't, even if it is for her own good.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I didn't say I did. But, I wouldn't be calling the Paddy Wagon the instant it happens. I have struggled with my own issues of depression and it something I had to work through. So, no, I don't claim to understand Bipolar but I think commitment is for extreme circumstances, not the first Go To reaction.

Well, first of all - this is an "instant" issue, it's been going on for a while. And commitment isn't about a life-time thing - it's about getting her the help she needs. There is out-patient commitment where she is court-ordered to see a doctor and attend therapy. There is a guardianship and/or conservatorship over her person to make sure she gets the care she needs so that she can't financially ruin herself while in a manic state.

No - taking control of an adult shouldn't be taken lightly - but mentally ill people who refuse treatment NEED guardianship and care.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I don't disagree. But, I have known people who have had great difficulty getting someone treatment who clearly needed it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't disagree. But, I have known people who have had great difficulty getting someone treatment who clearly needed it.

Getting a guardianship can be a very difficult and expensive process - most don't know how to do it, or can't do it. Or, they are afraid of alienating the person by seeking the guardianship. If you are taking over financial matters, too, you have to be able to get a bond.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I have a problem with assuming that mental health issues makes you a "crazy" where you are violent and dangerous and need to be committed. I don't think we should be too quick to take away the rights of adults and easily declare them incompetent, EVEN if they SHOULD be taking their medication. Do we want to hold them down and force medication down their throats? I dont' know. I don't have all the answers. But, we continually create stigma in this country by using the "mental illness" as our knee jerk reaction to every act of horror or violence that happens here.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I have a problem with assuming that mental health issues makes you a "crazy" where you are violent and dangerous and need to be committed. I don't think we should be too quick to take away the rights of adults and easily declare them incompetent, EVEN if they SHOULD be taking their medication. Do we want to hold them down and force medication down their throats? I dont' know. I don't have all the answers. But, we continually create stigma in this country by using the "mental illness" as our knee jerk reaction to every act of horror or violence that happens here.

Well, all of this would take the certified opinion of a doctor. Usually, two - the patients own, and then a court-appointed one.

But, there is no way in hell I'd sit back and do nothing while my mentally ill child continued through manic depressive cycles and refused to get help or take medication. No flippin' way.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I didn't say it was "do nothing" or "have her declared incompetent". There are other options between.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I didn't say it was "do nothing" or "have her declared incompetent". There are other options between.

You really think this mother hasn't tried them? The girl will not take medication. She will not seek therapy. Would you prefer some non-legal recourse? Maybe she should just cut her out of her life. Or hey, who cares, just continue to put up with it. What is YOUR brilliant solution?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Wow. Who pissed in your cheerios today? Sheesh. cry

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Wow. Who pissed in your cheerios today? Sheesh.

Well, Gaga, you did with pretty much your first posts on this thread. But instead of just sitting there criticizing what other people say, why don't you try actually providing some ideas and solutions. You say there are in between measures - what are they?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Though, I don't understand how dragging her off and committing her is somehow going to help the situation? I think it would be better to enlist the help of a therapist who can get her to understand that she needs to take her medication on a regular basis. Until she gains insight to do this, then committing her over and over isn't going to help.
Not sure why I am being labeled "mean" when you are the one who apparently think that Bipolar people NEED to be committed in the first place. Wow. Most bipolars I know are not violent or self harming, so who is the one setting up the mental illness stereotype? Wow.

This

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Though, I don't understand how dragging her off and committing her is somehow going to help the situation? I think it would be better to enlist the help of a therapist who can get her to understand that she needs to take her medication on a regular basis. Until she gains insight to do this, then committing her over and over isn't going to help.
Not sure why I am being labeled "mean" when you are the one who apparently think that Bipolar people NEED to be committed in the first place. Wow. Most bipolars I know are not violent or self harming, so who is the one setting up the mental illness stereotype? Wow.
This

And how are you going to make her go to therapy?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I will get a 100000 volt stun gun, zip tie her hands and hire two ex football players to carry her in. K? wink

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I will get a 100000 volt stun gun, zip tie her hands and hire two ex football players to carry her in. K?

MUCH BETTER than a court order. evileye