TOTALLY GEEKED!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

RE: Teen Faces Charges For Encouraging Friend To Commit Suicide

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think it is a pretty crappy thing to heap guilt on survivors as if they had some crystal ball to the future. My mom left the house to go to the grocery store on the morning my dad committed suicide. Should I have blamed her? Or was ut my fault for not having an inkling of a thought that this could ever happen in my family?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think it is a pretty crappy thing to heap guilt on survivors as if they had some crystal ball to the future. My mom left the house to go to the grocery store on the morning my dad committed suicide. Should I have blamed her? Or was ut my fault for not having an inkling of a thought that this could ever happen in my family?

Being a parent has different responsibilities than being a child, or even a spouse. And yes, it is a parent's responsibility to pay attention to their child's mental health. That is not to say it is their fault, but they can't lay all the blame on this girl, either, when their son was talking suicide for months and then took his own life.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You don't KNOW what they tried to do.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But encoraging someone who is actively engaged in trying to commit suicide is a terrible thing and rises to a whole different level.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
But encoraging someone who is actively engaged in trying to commit suicide is a terrible thing and rises to a whole different level.

I don't disagree - she is a horrible, nasty person and I hope this haunts her forever. But he killed himself. And I find it difficult to say she is RESPONSIBLE for his death b/c she had a duty to him because he was mentally ill when his own parents didn't seem to know he was mentally ill.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I agree that she is a horrible person, and a sorry excuse for a "friend". But that doesn't make her guilty of any crime that I can see. I'm no lawyer though, nor did I stay at a Holiday In Express last night, so I don't have any special insight into the case.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Lets say I am hanging from a cliff by my fingertips. I am yelling for help. Along comes the girl in the OP. I ask her for help. Instead of helping, she stomps on my fingers and walks away. Finally, in pain, I have to let go, my fingers cannot hold on anymore - her stomping on them significantly reduced the amount of time I could hang on - so I let go. Is she at fault for stomping on my fingers and walking away instead of helping me? She hastened my death, she brought about the conditions under which I had to let go. Ultimately it was my decision to let go but she brought about that end much faster AND didn't help me or call anyone over to help me." - Mellow Momma

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I disagree with that being a valid comparison. Texting is not equivalent to stepping on fingers here. It would be more comparable to suggest if you were hanging off of a cliff, and managed to pull yourself part way back up, and then she stopped by and talked you into dropping back down and THEN you lost your grip and fell to your death.

The choice to let yourself back down into the dangerous position on the cliff is the same as his choice to re-enter the truck.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I really do understand the visceral emotional reaction to wanting this girl to pay, but she didn't kill him.

Empyreal · Senior Member

I sort of think of it like this:

Drunk guy wants to drive to the store to get more beer. I can either say, yeah! Let me help you find your keys! Or I can say, no, don't do this and if he persists, I can call the police to help me intervene.

She did help kill him. He wasn't in the right frame of mind. He was obviously suffering from mental illness and needed help.

She is mentally ill and needs help as well. I have a couple of ideas on how I would personally help her. evileye This story made me angry.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I really do understand the visceral emotional reaction to wanting this girl to pay, but she didn't kill him.

What if he was saying "I want to get a gun and go shoot up a school? " And, she then handed him a gun and said "Go shoot up the school". Yes, she didn't pull the trigger and no she didn't kill those kids. But, actively ENCOURAGING someone in this vein, what would you say about that? Or, even if she didn't get the gun, if he had a gun and said " I want to go shoot up a school but don't think I should". And, then she texted back to "Be a man and go shoot up that school". What would you say about that?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think it is a pretty crappy thing to heap guilt on survivors as if they had some crystal ball to the future. My mom left the house to go to the grocery store on the morning my dad committed suicide. Should I have blamed her? Or was ut my fault for not having an inkling of a thought that this could ever happen in my family?

I sometimes forget what you've gone through, LGS.

{hugs}

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Thanks flan. I am not the only one. I know several people who have gone through this. You THINK you understand it until you have been there. You THINK it is just as simple as thinking that person gives off SIGNS and a cry for help, blah blah before the act. In many instances, they don't. Many suicides are simply an single act of impulsivity. A rash "spur of the moment" act. The first thing everyone says is "was there a note"? Yes, some suicides are planned. And, some suicides are by people who have had years of depression. But, many suicides are not like that. Most have no notes. And, a note implies some period of thought before the act. For some suicides, it is an overwhelming "I need to do this NOW" type of suicide that nobody around them could have foreseen.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Thanks flan. I am not the only one. I know several people who have gone through this. You THINK you understand it until you have been there. You THINK it is just as simple as thinking that person gives off SIGNS and a cry for help, blah blah before the act. In many instances, they don't. Many suicides are simply an single act of impulsivity. A rash "spur of the moment" act. The first thing everyone says is "was there a note"? Yes, some suicides are planned. And, some suicides are by people who have had years of depression. But, many suicides are not like that. Most have no notes. And, a note implies some period of thought before the act. For some suicides, it is an overwhelming "I need to do this NOW" type of suicide that nobody around them could have foreseen.

I know that you're not the only one.

In my darkest times, I wanted to not be anymore, I just wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. I would never judge another person for choosing to end his or her life.

flan

Blankie · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think it is a pretty crappy thing to heap guilt on survivors as if they had some crystal ball to the future. My mom left the house to go to the grocery store on the morning my dad committed suicide. Should I have blamed her? Or was ut my fault for not having an inkling of a thought that this could ever happen in my family?

I'm sorry to hear you went through this, LGS.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

When my son was 14, he and a group of other boys from the football team decided to experiment with drugs a bit. And, I closely monitor my kids. Drugs are far harder to detect than alcohol. But, even so, I know what pot smells like and I know the signs, etc. But, I truly had NO IDEA this was going on, and other parents who are good parents did not either. Anyway, one of the boys had a bad reaction and shot himself in his bedroom while his mom was downstairs doing the laundry. The whole town was stunned. This was a very "good" family with caring, loving parents. They didn't KNOW. Nobody knew what was going on. It was terrible and devastating. And, it was frightening to think that such a wonderful kid is now gone forever. People can't necessarily stop all suicides. We don't know what is in someone else's mind. Robin Williams could have availed himself off all the best treatment in the world. But, you don't know what is going through anyone else's mind at any given moment.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Well said, LGS.

One of the most dangerous things about depression is the feeling that you are utterly worthless, and that no one wants to help you. And you don't deserve help, anyway.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And, unfortunately, there are some people who are going to commit suicide no matter how much help is available to them. And, what is it people are supposed to DO necessarily? You can offer treatment but you can't make someone change the way they think. But, why do we have to play the Blame game? Either there is an effort to blame the people who LOVED that person for "not seeing" or whatever or we blame the victim. Oh, that was "selfish, cowardly", blah, blah when that may or may not be true at all.
For my son's friend, it was "oh well he was using drugs'. Which yes, that is true, but he was a GOOD kid. He was a wonderful boy. And, to have his life reduced to a flippant remark like that seems disgusting to me. Yes, he made a mistake. A terrible tragic mistake. But, that doesn't mean his life was somehow less worthy. I really don't understand how people can be so cold.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I really do understand the visceral emotional reaction to wanting this girl to pay, but she didn't kill him.
What if he was saying "I want to get a gun and go shoot up a school? " And, she then handed him a gun and said "Go shoot up the school". Yes, she didn't pull the trigger and no she didn't kill those kids. But, actively ENCOURAGING someone in this vein, what would you say about that? Or, even if she didn't get the gun, if he had a gun and said " I want to go shoot up a school but don't think I should". And, then she texted back to "Be a man and go shoot up that school". What would you say about that?

I would say that is conspiracy to commit murder and they are guilty of a crime. I've already stated that if suicide is illegal in Massachusetts, this girl could be guilty of conspiracy regarding that crime. But, that's the only thing I can think of her being guilty of besides being a wretched excuse for a human being.

And killing OTHER people is not the same as killing yourself.

WYSIWYG · Guru

"And killing OTHER people is not the same as killing yourself." - Lawyerlady

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This bears repeating. All the "what if?"s that include any reference to murder are pointless in a discussion of this. There was no murder involved (unless you consider suicide to be "self murder")