TOTALLY GEEKED!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

RE: Planet Fitness cancels woman's membership after her complaints of transgender woman in locker room

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Perhaps the business should amend their policies to be more clear.

I don't think anybody really did anything wrong in this situation. As society changes, policies and cultural norms change. As these changes happen their are going to be hiccups in the way things are handled.

Every where but here, Bonny...

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I'd like to see Flan, and the others defending this, in a locker room half dressed when a guy rounds the corner and uses the locker beside them. I can hear the shrieks now.

The comfort for all thing is crap. Because that would mean this woman's comfort would have been important too.
I could really care less if a transgender person was in a locker room I was sharing.
I don't get upset if I see a penis.
flan
Well who cares? Doesn't mean I want to see some strange man's intimate parts. Gawd.
But seeing boobies is more comfortable?
flan
Yes. I see them everyday in the mirror.
And I see DH's penis every day.
flan
I don't. And I don't want to. The only penis I want to see is DH's. Boobies don't matter - I have them, you have them, all WOMEN have them. So, they are normal to be in the WOMEN'S room.

"Boobies don't matter"??????

So many responses & all of them wrong...

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Perhaps the business should amend their policies to be more clear.

I don't think anybody really did anything wrong in this situation. As society changes, policies and cultural norms change. As these changes happen their are going to be hiccups in the way things are handled.
Every where but here, Bonny...
flan

Society is having this forced down their throat. Not the same thing at all.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I agree, this isn't normal change. This is being forced.

Whenitrains · Member

Will a man complain if a woman goes into the male restroom/locker room?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Whenitrains wrote:
Will a man complain if a woman goes into the male restroom/locker room?

Hah! Not likely.

burns07 · Guru

this is just wrong--the woman is absolutely in the right--she is lawfully on the premises, she is a member of the club, she is in the " Women's " locker room, not the TVs, the TGs, the genitally-confused, the " Women's " locker room--she is not paying for the privilege of disrobing in front of people of the opposite sex but rather in front and in the presence of other women--period

there's no confusion here at all, no blurring of the lines--she's 100% in the right and were her, would own that health club in short order

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

burns07 wrote:

this is just wrong--the woman is absolutely in the right--she is lawfully on the premises, she is a member of the club, she is in the " Women's " locker room, not the TVs, the TGs, the genitally-confused, the " Women's " locker room--she is not paying for the privilege of disrobing in front of people of the opposite sex but rather in front and in the presence of other women--period

there's no confusion here at all, no blurring of the lines--she's 100% in the right and were her, would own that health club in short order

Did you just ignore the guidelines that the business established?

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Flan. How would you know that man was transgender and not just a perv that found a way into the women's locker room?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

this is just wrong--the woman is absolutely in the right--she is lawfully on the premises, she is a member of the club, she is in the " Women's " locker room, not the TVs, the TGs, the genitally-confused, the " Women's " locker room--she is not paying for the privilege of disrobing in front of people of the opposite sex but rather in front and in the presence of other women--period

there's no confusion here at all, no blurring of the lines--she's 100% in the right and were her, would own that health club in short order
Did you just ignore the guidelines that the business established?
flan

But the only guidelines they established with their customer was basically no laughing or staring at how some one else works out. Had zero to do with how the customer projects their sexuality!

tlc · Regular

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

this is just wrong--the woman is absolutely in the right--she is lawfully on the premises, she is a member of the club, she is in the " Women's " locker room, not the TVs, the TGs, the genitally-confused, the " Women's " locker room--she is not paying for the privilege of disrobing in front of people of the opposite sex but rather in front and in the presence of other women--period

there's no confusion here at all, no blurring of the lines--she's 100% in the right and were her, would own that health club in short order
Did you just ignore the guidelines that the business established?
flan
But the only guidelines they established with their customer was basically no laughing or staring at how some one else works out. Had zero to do with how the customer projects their sexuality!

I agree. I highly doubt that when they adopted that policy that they were thinking about gender identity.

I belong to a gym, there is a women's bathroom/changing room and a men's. I would be shocked if I walked into the women's bathroom and there was a guy in there. My expectation is that only women use the women's room. Has nothing to do with seeing a penis or not. Men don't belong in women's changing rooms, and women don't belong in men's. That is why almost all bathrooms operate this way.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I'd like to see Flan, and the others defending this, in a locker room half dressed when a guy rounds the corner and uses the locker beside them. I can hear the shrieks now.

The comfort for all thing is crap. Because that would mean this woman's comfort would have been important too.
I could really care less if a transgender person was in a locker room I was sharing.

Been there, done that. None-issue. She wasn't strutting around naked, she was hanging up her purse after ASKING which bathroom to use. Not a big deal.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. How would you know that man was transgender and not just a perv that found a way into the women's locker room?

Not flan, but if a guy walks into a locker room I am in, wearing a woman coat and hangs up a womans purse, and then leaves, they are a failed pervert. I am not going to worry aboit it. Trans people don't bother me.

Now, if I am in the locker room and someone male or female is making suggestive comments or appears to be taking pictures, then we have a problem.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. How would you know that man was transgender and not just a perv that found a way into the women's locker room?

Not flan, but if a guy walks into a locker room I am in, wearing a woman coat and hangs up a womans purse, and then leaves, they are a failed pervert. I am not going to worry aboit it. Trans people don't bother me.
Now, if I am in the locker room and someone male or female is making suggestive comments or appears to be taking pictures, then we have a problem.

I worked with a lesbian and she was so lewd I used to hate changing when she was in the locker room. I'd much rather take my top off in front of a gay man or a transgender men than her. Lots of pervert women will stand there and leer at you as well.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

But see each time I ask this question the one answering it seems to think the only time you will be in this situation there would be an indication of the man's trans issue. But that is not always the case.

The guy isn't wearing anything. You didn't see him or have any interaction with him until you are face to face, both naked or semi dressed, in a locker room.

I don't believe for one minute your first thought would be to ask his gender. Your first thought would be why is there a naked man in the ladies locker room.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I'd like to see Flan, and the others defending this, in a locker room half dressed when a guy rounds the corner and uses the locker beside them. I can hear the shrieks now.

The comfort for all thing is crap. Because that would mean this woman's comfort would have been important too.
I could really care less if a transgender person was in a locker room I was sharing.
But other women who don't share your lack of feelings don't matter?
Sure their feelings matter. But a private business can restrict or not restrict the locker rooms as they see fit. People who don't like a company's policy should use another business.
Personally, I don't get why people are so concerned with other peoples crotches.
But a private business can restrict or not restrict ....
People who don't like a company's policy should use another business.

How come that is true for this situation but not the baker, minister, venue or anything else that doesn't agree under opposite circumstances?
If this had been making the man leave the dressing room, would it still apply?

Yes. Great question!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Southern_Belle wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. How would you know that man was transgender and not just a perv that found a way into the women's locker room?

Not flan, but if a guy walks into a locker room I am in, wearing a woman coat and hangs up a womans purse, and then leaves, they are a failed pervert. I am not going to worry aboit it. Trans people don't bother me.
Now, if I am in the locker room and someone male or female is making suggestive comments or appears to be taking pictures, then we have a problem.
I worked with a lesbian and she was so lewd I used to hate changing when she was in the locker room. I'd much rather take my top off in front of a gay man or a transgender men than her. Lots of pervert women will stand there and leer at you as well.

I'm not quite certain what singular experiences you have had has to do with women not wanting to share their bathrooms and locker rooms with men. If anything, your experience is a slam against lesbians being able to share the facilities, too. Regardless, why do women have to deal with this from all fronts - women and men? One should not even be an issue.

WYSIWYG · Guru

This situation is a good argument for unisex changing rooms and bathrooms, with individual stalls available but not required, and a few unisex individual bathrooms for those that can't stand even the risk of the sight of opposite equipment.

After reading this thread, I have a question for everyone that's against a transgender possessor of a penis, in the women's locker room on the "he could just be a pervert" basis. What about lesbian perverts in there, or gay perverts in the men's locker room? "Pervert" isn't restricted to people with opposing equipment.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

WYSIWYG wrote:
This situation is a good argument for unisex changing rooms and bathrooms, with individual stalls available but not required, and a few unisex individual bathrooms for those that can't stand even the risk of the sight of opposite equipment.

After reading this thread, I have a question for everyone that's against a transgender possessor of a penis, in the women's locker room on the "he could just be a pervert" basis. What about lesbian perverts in there, or gay perverts in the men's locker room? "Pervert" isn't restricted to people with opposing equipment.

Just because you have to deal with some doesn't mean you should purposely open the door for more than necessary.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Lawyerlady wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. How would you know that man was transgender and not just a perv that found a way into the women's locker room?

Not flan, but if a guy walks into a locker room I am in, wearing a woman coat and hangs up a womans purse, and then leaves, they are a failed pervert. I am not going to worry aboit it. Trans people don't bother me.
Now, if I am in the locker room and someone male or female is making suggestive comments or appears to be taking pictures, then we have a problem.
I worked with a lesbian and she was so lewd I used to hate changing when she was in the locker room. I'd much rather take my top off in front of a gay man or a transgender men than her. Lots of pervert women will stand there and leer at you as well.
I'm not quite certain what singular experiences you have had has to do with women not wanting to share their bathrooms and locker rooms with men. If anything, your experience is a slam against lesbians being able to share the facilities, too. Regardless, why do women have to deal with this from all fronts - women and men? One should not even be an issue.

She would do things like suck in her breath and say "ohhhhhhhhh gimme some of that". And lord help you if you had to bend over. I've work with many lesbians over the years and she's the only nasty one.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

The point being, this woman (yeah, I just called her a woman!) wasn't behaving inappropriately, and the other lady started harassing her behind her back. To the point she was upsetting OTHER patrons.
The behavior is what is being judged here, not the gender, and that, IMHO, is how it should be.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The point being, this woman (yeah, I just called her a woman!) wasn't behaving inappropriately, and the other lady started harassing her behind her back. To the point she was upsetting OTHER patrons.
The behavior is what is being judged here, not the gender, and that, IMHO, is how it should be.

HOw do you know "She/he" wasn't behaving inappropriately? There are subtle ways to make people very uncomfortable. He might have been tugging at his tallywhacker and scratching his balls.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The point being, this woman (yeah, I just called her a woman!) wasn't behaving inappropriately, and the other lady started harassing her behind her back. To the point she was upsetting OTHER patrons.
The behavior is what is being judged here, not the gender, and that, IMHO, is how it should be.

No, she wasn't harassing her. Harassment requires knowledge. This person wasn't even a member and knew nothing about it until it hit the news. The woman RIGHTFULLY complained that a man was using the woman's locker room and when the gym would do nothing, told the other patrons about it. That is within her rights. When you get crappy service at a business, complaining about it is within your rights. And it did not say ANYWHERE that her behavior upset other patrons - although finding out Planet Fitness' policies may have upset them, but that is Planet Fitness' problem.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But, I find it curious the "Oh it's a private business " type comments are not in support for the Baker. For me, it is a private business and if that is their policy and then I have no problem with saying "our policy is that transgendered can choose the locker room of their choice". And, if you don't like it, find another gym. But, I also support the baker choosing to not bake a cake. Sooooo, I would say my position is consistent based on the same principle of Private Business Ownership, whereas I see these cases being tried based on whether someone agrees with the decision or not.

Blankie · Guru

I'd like to hear the rest of this story. Namely how many women at this Planet Fitness gym will be leaving because of it.

Actually a stupid move on PF's part.

Protecting the interests of a teeny minority of people, at the expense of a huge majority of customers.

People will vote with their feet.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wroLook te:
The point being, this woman (yeah, I just called her a woman!. ) wasn't behavingknow w it nappropriately, and the other lady started harassing her behind her back. To the point she was upsetting OTHER patrons.
The behavior is what is being judged here, not the gender, and that, IMHO, is how it should be.
HOw do you know "She/he" wasn't behaving inappropriately? There are subtle ways to make people very uncomfortable. He might have been tugging at his tallywhacker and scratching his balls.

The OP states she was merely standing there. Even the person complainimg doesn't claim there was any poor behavior.

And as to how I know it was upsetting other patrons, I don't . . . But somebody had to have told managment that the complainer was running her mouth, and odds are it was another patron.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wroLook te:
The point being, this woman (yeah, I just called her a woman!. ) wasn't behavingknow w it nappropriately, and the other lady started harassing her behind her back. To the point she was upsetting OTHER patrons.
The behavior is what is being judged here, not the gender, and that, IMHO, is how it should be.
HOw do you know "She/he" wasn't behaving inappropriately? There are subtle ways to make people very uncomfortable. He might have been tugging at his tallywhacker and scratching his balls.
The OP states she was merely standing there. Even the person complainimg doesn't claim there was any poor behavior.
And as to how I know it was upsetting other patrons, I don't . . . But somebody had to have told managment that the complainer was running her mouth, and odds are it was another patron.

The other patrons probably asked about the policy - and yes, I would be upset if I found out that was the policy, but that's not the same thing as that woman upsetting me. This is a classic case of trying to kill the messenger. And even the transgender person admitted that she looks like a man - not a woman.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Blankie wrote:
I'd like to hear the rest of this story. Namely how many women at this Planet Fitness gym will be leaving because of it.
Actually a stupid move on PF's part.
Protecting the interests of a teeny minority of people, at the expense of a huge majority of customers.
People will vote with their feet.

And why would people leave a gym with a 'no judgement' policy? Sounds pretty reasonae to me.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

If someone hasn't had the surgery they can't be in the bathroom.

Eta: anyone can "say" they identify as the opposite gender just to get in the door. The proof is in the pudding!

-- Edited by VetteGirl on Tuesday 10th of March 2015 01:50:24 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Why would anyone stay in a gym that allows men in the women's lockerroom?

This is asking for trouble. And it will happen.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Why would anyone stay in a gym that allows men in the women's lockerroom?

This is asking for trouble. And it will happen.

Well, if the gym is still in business, then not everyone agrees with you.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Flan. You are so wishy you washy. What ever the majority says...

if the majority said the opposite you would all over that.

cadiver · Senior Member

I think it is a stupid policy.

But that is the difference between the baker and in this case. As far as told the policy does not go against any law, it may but has not been brought up. The baker/photographer cases, except one that I recall, goes against state law.

She feels Planet Fitness could provide a third locker room for transgender people.

That may require four locker rooms.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. You are so wishy you washy. What ever the majority says...
if the majority said the opposite you would all over that.

BS, Lily, and YOU KNOW IT.

I'm generally Liberal & am not scared by things that are outside of my realm of experience.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. You are so wishy you washy. What ever the majority says...
if the majority said the opposite you would all over that.
BS, Lily, and YOU KNOW IT.
I'm generally Liberal & am not scared by things that are outside of my realm of experience.
flan

Not what I have seen. What I have seen is you "following around and agreeing".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan. You are so wishy you washy. What ever the majority says...
if the majority said the opposite you would all over that.
BS, Lily, and YOU KNOW IT.
I'm generally Liberal & am not scared by things that are outside of my realm of experience.
flan
Not what I have seen. What I have seen is you "following around and agreeing".

Thanks for sharing your wisdom...

To say that I am "wishy washy" is 100% BS. I know what I believe.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I do too. What ever is popular at the time.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
I do too. What ever is popular at the time.

I despise most things that are "popular."

You really have no clue who I am.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

cadiver wrote:
I think it is a stupid policy.

But that is the difference between the baker and in this case. As far as told the policy does not go against any law, it may but has not been brought up. The baker/photographer cases, except one that I recall, goes against state law.

She feels Planet Fitness could provide a third locker room for transgender people.

That may require four locker rooms.

The question I have is the "private business" part. If PF had made the man leave the women's locker room, would it still been a matter of "private business" and policy? I really doubt it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I do too. What ever is popular at the time.
I despise most things that are "popular."
You really have no clue who I am.
flan

No. I have a very clear idea who you are.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Why would anyone stay in a gym that allows men in the women's lockerroom?

This is asking for trouble. And it will happen.
Well, if the gym is still in business, then not everyone agrees with you.
flan

This just happened. I doubt the affects have been felt, yet.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Blankie wrote:
I'd like to hear the rest of this story. Namely how many women at this Planet Fitness gym will be leaving because of it.
Actually a stupid move on PF's part.
Protecting the interests of a teeny minority of people, at the expense of a huge majority of customers.
People will vote with their feet.
And why would people leave a gym with a 'no judgement' policy? Sounds pretty reasonae to me.

Because their "no judgment" policy only extends to judgments they don't agree with. They judged this woman for being against sharing a locker-room with a man.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Blankie wrote:
I'd like to hear the rest of this story. Namely how many women at this Planet Fitness gym will be leaving because of it.
Actually a stupid move on PF's part.
Protecting the interests of a teeny minority of people, at the expense of a huge majority of customers.
People will vote with their feet.
And why would people leave a gym with a 'no judgement' policy? Sounds pretty reasonae to me.
Because their "no judgment" policy only extends to judgments they don't agree with. They judged this woman for being against sharing a locker-room with a man.

Wrong. They judged her for running her mouth about a guest to the gym (who broke no rules) when she was specifically told not too. File this one under "well what did she expect to happen?', and move on.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Would it still be "private business" and "policy" had they made the man leave the women's locker room?

cadiver · Senior Member

lilyofcourse wrote:
Would it still be "private business" and "policy" had they made the man leave the women's locker room?

Depends on the laws there.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Blankie wrote:
I'd like to hear the rest of this story. Namely how many women at this Planet Fitness gym will be leaving because of it.
Actually a stupid move on PF's part.
Protecting the interests of a teeny minority of people, at the expense of a huge majority of customers.
People will vote with their feet.
And why would people leave a gym with a 'no judgement' policy? Sounds pretty reasonae to me.
Because their "no judgment" policy only extends to judgments they don't agree with. They judged this woman for being against sharing a locker-room with a man.
Wrong. They judged her for running her mouth about a guest to the gym (who broke no rules) when she was specifically told not too. File this one under "well what did she expect to happen?', and move on.

So, now they can tell her what she can and can't talk about. So, not only do we have no protection from men coming into the locker room, but businesses can make us give up our rights to free speech? She did not break any rules. There was a man in the locker room - she told people. No matter what you want to say - that fact is absolutely undeniable.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

cadiver wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Would it still be "private business" and "policy" had they made the man leave the women's locker room?
Depends on the laws there.

There is no law in Michigan regarding transgenders using opposite restrooms that I can find.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I do too. What ever is popular at the time.
I despise most things that are "popular."
You really have no clue who I am.
flan
No. I have a very clear idea who you are.

Lily, I hate it when flan goes after you. I really do. It shows poor taste. But OTOH just because you or I disagree with her you can't say she doesn't believe what she believes. Just because she has very liberal views you can't say that she doesn't believe them because they are not in line with you. And while I agree that people may say one thing on a message board and do something entirely different when actually faced with the situation you can't really call them a liar just because they believe they know what they will do. It's not a slam on you in any way. I hope that makes sense.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Would it still be "private business" and "policy" had they made the man leave the women's locker room?

Of course not! People have their rights dammit! hmm