TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Funny you crow about holding people to high standards but the Church, well of course they don't need standards and anyone who thinks they does, well they must be the problem!

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 Exactly! 

Must have been my fault when the pastor's son groped me as a teenager and when I complained, they blamed my "known promiscuous behavior" for his 10 year old son grabbing my boobs (under my shirt).

How on earth is it the entire church's fault the pastor did that?

Who said anything was " the entire churche's fault"? Nobody said that whatsoever.

Yup. Must just be us.

Oh ffs. Anyone who watches the news is aware of abuses in the name of religion. Just this week the pastor of a mega church is in the news for asking his congregation to buy him a 33 million dollar jet.

Blame who you want, but I'm inclined to believe that much evil resides within the four walls of many many many churches.

voiceofreason wrote:

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Oh ffs. Anyone who watches the news is aware of abuses in the name of religion. Just this week the pastor of a mega church is in the news for asking his congregation to buy him a 33 million dollar jet.

Blame who you want, but I'm inclined to believe that much evil resides within the four walls of many many many churches.

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 Of course it does. Just like everywhere else. But to sit there and say all churches are bad so I'm not going to go is ridiculous. Churches and the people in them are responsible for much of the charity in communities and around the world. I'm not going to sit here and listen to people bash churches because they don't want to be part of one.

Interesting how one thinks a bad pastor doesn't represent the majority but a bad welfare recipient indicates we need to gut the whole damn social safety net.

Look, none of us are particularly eager to have our narratives challenged but straight up double standards are being aired. Stop for a minute and think how maybe showing grace to the other side might be beneficial. I've made efforts to not be judgy to my religious neighbors in this community. But holy ****, some of the rhetoric is simply mind boggling.

voiceofreason wrote:

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Interesting how one thinks a bad pastor doesn't represent the majority but a bad welfare recipient indicates we need to gut the whole damn social safety net.

Look, none of us are particularly eager to have our narratives challenged but straight up double standards are being aired. Stop for a minute and think how maybe showing grace to the other side might be beneficial. I've made efforts to not be judgy to my religious neighbors in this community. But holy ****, some of the rhetoric is simply mind boggling.

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 Except I have never said welfare needs to be abolished. I said regulated. So your comparison doesn't work. 

Saying that I think Churches need to change is a "radical denouncement"?

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Saying that I think Churches need to change is a "radical denouncement"?

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That is not all you said and you know it. Church is FULL of phoniness, you want REAL people, implying those that go to church are insincere.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Ok. A lot of them are.

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 So are a lot that don't. But God tells me to go to church, so I do. Even when I'd rather spend all my Sundays laying on the couch watching movies.

Is anyone here trying to talk YOU out of going to Church?

Is talking on a message board about how awful church is a good way to lead them to Christ?

Blankie wrote:

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voiceofreason wrote:

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Oh ffs. Anyone who watches the news is aware of abuses in the name of religion. Just this week the pastor of a mega church is in the news for asking his congregation to buy him a 33 million dollar jet.

Blame who you want, but I'm inclined to believe that much evil resides within the four walls of many many many churches.

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 Bingo! Don't get me started on the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Evil incarnate.

When human evil is what people find in church, of course they will leave. That is the only sane thing to do.

In some churches, the antithesis of God is found. Those are the ones you've gotta run from.

God can be found in plenty of places other than church. Church is a human construct. God is much bigger than church.

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 I cannot agree with that.  The church is the people of Christ coming together.  And is throughout the Bible. 

Acts 9:31 (NKJV)
Then the churches[a] throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

In concert with His redemptive act, Jesus did three things that established the framework of His Church. First, He chose humans to carry out His work. He appointed Peter to be the visible head of the Church. Jesus said to Peter, "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church." (Matthew 16: 18) Jesus said "build," as in to create a structure. Jesus built His structure on specifically chosen human beings Peter and the apostles.

Second, Jesus gave Peter and the apostles the power and authority to carry out His work. "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven."(Matthew 16:19; 18:18) "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, whose sins you retain, they are retained."(John 20:23)

Third, Jesus gave Peter and the apostles commands as to what that work should be. At the last supper, He commanded, "Do this in memory of Me." (Luke 22:19) He commanded them to "Make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19), and to "Go into the whole world and proclaim the Gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

burns07 wrote:

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well, would think many here are more active church members than we are--everyone goes for their own reasons, their own needs--was raised a Presbyterian and my lady Seventh Day Adventist--we go for several reasons but one of them is because of something my parents shared with me when I was a boy--" you're not going to like everyone there, you're going to get bored, you're going to have to sing, you're going to have to be nice to everyone even if you don't want to be but that's not why you're there. you're there to listen to the word, to be thankful for what you have, to pray for those in need but most important of all, some of those people truly walk in Grace and when you see them, hear them, talk to them, maybe just maybe some of their Grace will rub off on you and over time make you a better, stronger man or
woman. that's why we go to church--to become better people. "

have never forgotten their admonition--and go now not only for my lady and myself, but also to honor them

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 That is a beautiful message your parents shared.  I might have to steal it when my kids complain about getting up for church.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And I cannot believe all churches are bad. I've been to many and none were "bad". But one has to continue to look to find the one that fits, not just condemn them all and flee.

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 Um , i nevet said that.

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 Yeah, you pretty much did.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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And I cannot believe all churches are bad. I've been to many and none were "bad". But one has to continue to look to find the one that fits, not just condemn them all and flee.

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 I am sure not all churches are bad. I am sure some are amazing. But how hard would you look until you found one? I won't spend week after week after week looking (especially when the number of churches in my denomination may only number 1 or two in the city I live in) before I find that one. I will give it a chance, and then I will spend my time in other ways. God doesnt take attendance. He cares how you live your life. If I live my life as witness to the good in the world, as someone of morals and dignity and respect, I come far closer to the glory of God than the mobster who buys the social hall to make himself feel better about his crimes. 

"And quite frankly, its an hour or so a week. I don't think it's too much time to give up to go listen to the preacher talk about Gods word. I might learn something new." - Lawyerlady

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Depending on the pastor, preacher or reverend though, it might or might not be in line with things actually found in the Bible.

That's part of many people's issues with Church. I can only speak for myself when I say, I don't denounce all churches. I just denounce all the ones I have attended that have, in my eyes, failed to live up to what I always believed Church should be. Not that they weren't perfection incarnate. Just that turned out to be nothing more than the local town gossip halls or places where the "fire and brimstone" preaching went on. Neither of which coincided with what I believe the Bible teaches.

If general you has an awesome church, that's great for you. I'm even happy for you. That doesn't mean I'm not justified in getting tired of looking for one, and becoming comfortable with believing that what's between God and anyone can be between just the two of them.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Ok. Well I will get off the thread and u can explain in great detail what I really am trying to say since I dont know.

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 No, you don't seem to know.  How you react to what other people say and about drama is on YOU, isn't that what you always say?  Especially when you are stirring up drama here.   You have said over and over that it's our place to hold other Christians accountable, but you don't like me questioning why you don't go to church.  It seems every position you have is in direct contradiction to your reaction to this.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Ok. Well I will get off the thread and u can explain in great detail what I really am trying to say since I dont know.

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 No, you don't seem to know.  How you react to what other people say and about drama is on YOU, isn't that what you always say?  Especially when you are stirring up drama here.   You have said over and over that it's our place to hold other Christians accountable, but you don't like me questioning why you don't go to church.  It seems every position you have is in direct contradiction to your reaction to this.

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Where did I say how I react isn't on me?  Yes it is.  I got sick of it so I left.  That was my CHOICE to do so.   So what?  You seem to be acting as if people here are saying that YOU should not go to church.  If you want to go, then Go.  The Church isn't above reproach when they should be reproached.  Most people go to Church assuming that people at least might possibly be a tad bit more caring, better behaved, more honest, etc, etc.  And, then when they go and find out that isn't the case in many of the instances here, then people decide they deal with enough of that everyday at work and everywhere else so why expose yourself to more?

  And, the notion that Church goes to the people causing the offenses and calls them out?  Sure.  But I have yet to see that actually happen.  Usually when the Pastor does that, then they start acting like women scorned and then the mission to remove the Pastor becomes the main focus.  So, yeah, I guess that is my "fault" or MM's fault or Blankie's fault or whomevers.  Maybe if the Church would stop letting these people run roughshod over the entire Church body, then there would be plenty of people returning to the churches they used to go to. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And I cannot believe all churches are bad. I've been to many and none were "bad". But one has to continue to look to find the one that fits, not just condemn them all and flee.

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 I am sure not all churches are bad. I am sure some are amazing. But how hard would you look until you found one? I won't spend week after week after week looking (especially when the number of churches in my denomination may only number 1 or two in the city I live in) before I find that one. I will give it a chance, and then I will spend my time in other ways. God doesnt take attendance. He cares how you live your life. If I live my life as witness to the good in the world, as someone of morals and dignity and respect, I come far closer to the glory of God than the mobster who buys the social hall to make himself feel better about his crimes. 

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 Yes, you do have to look.  You visit different churches.  Why wouldn't you?  And to find the right one, you have to visit it more than one.  You ask around, you go to well-established churches that look like they flourish and have a community presence.

And what you speak of - bad pastors that are criminals- that is not the norm.  To give up enriching your faith through felllowship because of a few bad men is allowing the devil to influence you. You have allowed the bad men to have more of an influence than God.

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 That's the point.  It wasn't "enriching". 

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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This is like having a discussion on Welfare. We have related our PERSONAL experiences. But, LL is jumping to the conclusion that we said ALL churches are "bad".

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 That's what you SAID.  Whether you like to admit it or not, when you say you don't go to church because they are full of gossiping busybodies, that is a stereotype YOU are perpetuating.  If not the case, you'd keep looking.  But, you don't, because you don't want to.  What the hell is THAT?