TOTALLY GEEKED!

chef · Guru

RE: I love Stephen King

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
flan327 wrote:
If you decide to bake cakes, then bake cakes. Period.

What if a man wants a birthday cake for his mistress?

flan
Well, if you're dumb enough to go into a bakery and tell them you're having an affair...
That's my point...Gays can't hide who they are. They shouldn't have to.
flan

Correct. They shouldn't have to. Neither should Christians. Or anyone else.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

So let me understand this... Murdering someone who doesn't believe in what you believe in is acceptable. But not making them a wedding cake is not. Makes perfect sense.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
So let me understand this... Murdering someone who doesn't believe in what you believe in is acceptable. But not making them a wedding cake is not. Makes perfect sense.

I have said at least twice on this thread that violence is NOT acceptable, even when directed against bigots...but it's so much more dramatic to ignore that.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
So let me understand this... Murdering someone who doesn't believe in what you believe in is acceptable. But not making them a wedding cake is not. Makes perfect sense.
I have said at least twice on this thread that violence is NOT acceptable, even when directed against bigots...but it's so much more dramatic to ignore that.
flan

Why are they bigots? Because they follow the teachings of their religion? That's total bullcrap and you know it.

huskerbb · Guru

No one says they have to--yet you want Christians to hide who they are.

It'a not about rights. It's about the typical liberal mindset that everyone must think exactly like they do.

burns07 · Guru

even when directed against bigots
____________________________

homosexuals are some of the most bigoted people on this planet

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
No one says they have to--yet you want Christians to hide who they are.

It'a not about rights. It's about the typical liberal mindset that everyone must think exactly like they do.

No, BUT they can't discriminate against a lifestyle they disapprove of.

Gays are "visible." Adulterers, abusers...not so much.

I do NOT think that a minister should be forced to officiate at a gay wedding, but a florist or baker...different thing.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
No one says they have to--yet you want Christians to hide who they are.

It'a not about rights. It's about the typical liberal mindset that everyone must think exactly like they do.
No, BUT they can't discriminate against a lifestyle they disapprove of.
Gays are "visible." Adulterers, abusers...not so much.
I do NOT think that a minister should be forced to officiate at a gay wedding, but a florist or baker...different thing.
flan

A local talk radio show here aired a series of phone calls they made to several bakeries in SF. They called and ordered a cake with "Gay Marriage Is Wrong". EVERY ONE of the bakeries refused to make the cake. EVERY ONE.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
No one says they have to--yet you want Christians to hide who they are.

It'a not about rights. It's about the typical liberal mindset that everyone must think exactly like they do.
No, BUT they can't discriminate against a lifestyle they disapprove of.
Gays are "visible." Adulterers, abusers...not so much.
I do NOT think that a minister should be forced to officiate at a gay wedding, but a florist or baker...different thing.
flan

Yet that is exactly what you want done to those who disagree with you. Again, are you going to force a Jewish baker to make a cake with a swastika on it?

Ohfour · Hooker

Or force a bakery to write the "N" word?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Are they wedding cakes?

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Are they wedding cakes?

flan

What does that matter? It's a cake. And someone wants it. If you can't refuse some, you cant refuse anyone...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

It's not that simple.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

YES, yes it is. You either have the right to refuse or not. It doesn't matter the reason. If someone came into a bakery and wanted the N-word on the cake, should the baker have the right to refuse it?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I really DO love Stephen King!

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Let's try this:

Your religion supports thinking in terms of Black and White.

IF there is a god, why was I given a brain and free will? To explore the grey areas.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Still haven't answered my question...

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Are they wedding cakes?

flan

Could be, but what difference does it make? Are you going to let people refuse to make other types of cakes for gay people as long as they aren't refusing wedding cakes? YOU were the one spouting off about if uou bake cakes then you bake cakes period. Backing away from that statement now?

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Let's try this:

Your religion supports thinking in terms of Black and White.

IF there is a god, why was I given a brain and free will? To explore the grey areas.

flan

Explore all you want. I'm not the one trying to dictate what you must do or not--you are.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Let's try this:

Your religion supports thinking in terms of Black and White.

IF there is a god, why was I given a brain and free will? To explore the grey areas.

flan

Let me try.

Do you want some one to love you of their own free will or because they are programmed to?

God gives us the ability to choose because He doesn't want to force us or have robot affection and worship.

He wants us to want Him.

Penelope · Newbie

If a baker doesn't make political cakes, swastika cakes, penis cakes etc, then that is a service they don't provide to anyone. Of course they can say "Sorry, I don't make that cake, that's not one of the services I provide to anyone." That isn't discrimination. If a baker makes cakes for weddings, and a couple wants a nondescript wedding cake that they offer it shouldn't matter who the couple is, that is a service they offer. Turning away someone based on who they are when they are trying to retain a service you do offer is discrimination.

huskerbb · Guru

Penelope wrote:
If a baker doesn't make political cakes, swastika cakes, penis cakes etc, then that is a service they don't provide to anyone. Of course they can say "Sorry, I don't make that cake, that's not one of the services I provide to anyone." That isn't discrimination. If a baker makes cakes for weddings, and a couple wants a nondescript wedding cake that they offer it shouldn't matter who the couple is, that is a service they offer. Turning away someone based on who they are when they are trying to retain a service you do offer is discrimination.

That's patently BS. A swastika cake isn't a category. It would be used for a wedding, a birthday, or whatever. You know your position is blatantly hypocritical. But hey, if you want to use your theory, then they should be able to say they don't do gay weddings for anyone.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Again, why don't the business just say we refuse to serve you and leave it at that? Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone. So it is completely idiotic on the part of the business to disclose why they are refusing service.

Ohfour · Hooker

Penelope wrote:
If a baker doesn't make political cakes, swastika cakes, penis cakes etc, then that is a service they don't provide to anyone. Of course they can say "Sorry, I don't make that cake, that's not one of the services I provide to anyone." That isn't discrimination. If a baker makes cakes for weddings, and a couple wants a nondescript wedding cake that they offer it shouldn't matter who the couple is, that is a service they offer. Turning away someone based on who they are when they are trying to retain a service you do offer is discrimination.

So, it someone wanted "Happy Birthday N****R", they would have to provide that. Since they make birthday cakes all the time, right?

huskerbb · Guru

VetteGirl wrote:
Again, why don't the business just say we refuse to serve you and leave it at that? Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone. So it is completely idiotic on the part of the business to disclose why they are refusing service.

I doubt that would stop a gay couple from taking them to court. Liberals aren't happy unless everyone thinks and believes the same things in exactly the same way.

Penelope · Newbie

Ohfour wrote:
Penelope wrote:
If a baker doesn't make political cakes, swastika cakes, penis cakes etc, then that is a service they don't provide to anyone. Of course they can say "Sorry, I don't make that cake, that's not one of the services I provide to anyone." That isn't discrimination. If a baker makes cakes for weddings, and a couple wants a nondescript wedding cake that they offer it shouldn't matter who the couple is, that is a service they offer. Turning away someone based on who they are when they are trying to retain a service you do offer is discrimination.
So, it someone wanted "Happy Birthday N****R", they would have to provide that. Since they make birthday cakes all the time, right?

No, they can say "Sorry, we don't write that word on cakes, for anyone." Now if they said, "Oh, we only write that for black people (or white or purple or people with green hair what have you) but we don't do it for your kind," that is when it becomes an issue. They can say "We don't make cake like this ___ for anyone."

Ohfour · Hooker

So the bakery gets to chose the words they find offensive? Um, nope. Liberal logic for ya...

Penelope · Newbie

It doesn't have to be a category. They can just not make that type of cake for anyone. They can choose to never ever offer certain cakes and that's okay. A 'gay wedding cake' is no different than a regular wedding cake, if the make regular wedding cakes for the public, then they should make them for any public with the money to order one as long as they are taking new clients.

Penelope · Newbie

Ohfour wrote:
So the bakery gets to chose the words they find offensive? Um, nope. Liberal logic for ya...

Of course they do! They can also choose to be organic or gluten free or not use purple frosting. They can choose whatever services they offer, as long as they offer those services to all. Very simple.

huskerbb · Guru

Penelope wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Penelope wrote:
If a baker doesn't make political cakes, swastika cakes, penis cakes etc, then that is a service they don't provide to anyone. Of course they can say "Sorry, I don't make that cake, that's not one of the services I provide to anyone." That isn't discrimination. If a baker makes cakes for weddings, and a couple wants a nondescript wedding cake that they offer it shouldn't matter who the couple is, that is a service they offer. Turning away someone based on who they are when they are trying to retain a service you do offer is discrimination.
So, it someone wanted "Happy Birthday N****R", they would have to provide that. Since they make birthday cakes all the time, right?
No, they can say "Sorry, we don't write that word on cakes, for anyone." Now if they said, "Oh, we only write that for black people (or white or purple or people with green hair what have you) but we don't do it for your kind," that is when it becomes an issue. They can say "We don't make cake like this ___ for anyone."

Then they should be able to say we don't do gay weddings for anyone.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Everyone is focusing on the Christian and gay.

But the big thing is, and what NO ONE is grasping, once one religion is censored, other religions will be.

So the Jewish baker won't be able to deny the Nazi. The Muslim won't be able to deny the Jewish.

Without freedom of religion, there is no religious freedom for any one.

This isn't just about Christians, this is about everyone's freedom to practice, follow and live their own religion.

Ohfour · Hooker

Should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for the KKK if he bakes cakes for other organizations (Lion Club, Knight of Columbus, the Masons)?

huskerbb · Guru

Penelope wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
So the bakery gets to chose the words they find offensive? Um, nope. Liberal logic for ya...
Of course they do! They can also choose to be organic or gluten free or not use purple frosting. They can choose whatever services they offer, as long as they offer those services to all. Very simple.

LOL!!! You are ridiculous. If being "offended" is the standard, then that should give people for whom gay marriage is offensive a reason to refuse to do it. Again, you don't give a crap about rights so long as everyone agrees with YOUR definition of what is offensive. You are a hypocrite of the first order.

huskerbb · Guru

Of course, the two biggest things that show the fact that this isn't about rights but about group think mentality is that they can't answer the questions if why not just find a business that is supportive, and why would they want to patronize someone who doesn't support them? The answer, of course, is that they don't care about right but only about proving some point.

cadiver · Senior Member

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
But he's not forcing his views on anyone. Why should a kosher deli be forced to serve something against their beliefs? They shouldn't. Same principle here. Now if someone says I don't want gays eating at my restaurant and I'll make sure they don't then that's discrimination. That should be stopped. No one should be forced to make or serve something they are uncomfortable with. Some bakeries won't make those bacherolette cakes with penises on them. Or the naked woman cakes. If they don't want to do that then they shouldn't be forced to do it. No one is trying to convert anyone to Christianity here.

The initial law was not limited to weddings, hence the later "fix". The example of koser is not the same, they do not server that product. The pizza is the same, there is not a different pizza for a gay wedding.

How about a Muslim taxi driver that wants to drive women.

or a Muslim not wanting to serve Christians, or other non-muslims.

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
YES, yes it is. You either have the right to refuse or not. It doesn't matter the reason. If someone came into a bakery and wanted the N-word on the cake, should the baker have the right to refuse it?

It does matter the reason if it violates Civil Rights. It not you can either refuse everyone or no one.

Ohfour · Hooker

cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
YES, yes it is. You either have the right to refuse or not. It doesn't matter the reason. If someone came into a bakery and wanted the N-word on the cake, should the baker have the right to refuse it?
It does matter the reason if it violates Civil Rights. It not you can either refuse everyone or no one.

Writing the N-Word violates civil rights? Please show me where this is a law anywhere in the US?

cadiver · Senior Member

lilyofcourse wrote:
Everyone is focusing on the Christian and gay.

But the big thing is, and what NO ONE is grasping, once one religion is censored, other religions will be.

So the Jewish baker won't be able to deny the Nazi. The Muslim won't be able to deny the Jewish.

Without freedom of religion, there is no religious freedom for any one.

This isn't just about Christians, this is about everyone's freedom to practice, follow and live their own religion.

So, do you think a Muslim merchant should be able to deny Jewish customers?

I would think this is what you are expecting. First the Muslim denies Jewish customers, Muslim denies Christian customers, then everyone denies service Christians.

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
YES, yes it is. You either have the right to refuse or not. It doesn't matter the reason. If someone came into a bakery and wanted the N-word on the cake, should the baker have the right to refuse it?
It does matter the reason if it violates Civil Rights. It not you can either refuse everyone or no one.
Writing the N-Word violates civil rights? Please show me where this is a law anywhere in the US?

I was looking at the first sentence. that a business could has the right to refuse service or it doesn't.

Ohfour · Hooker

So, should a black baker have to bake a cake for a KKK meeting?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

cadiver wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Everyone is focusing on the Christian and gay.

But the big thing is, and what NO ONE is grasping, once one religion is censored, other religions will be.

So the Jewish baker won't be able to deny the Nazi. The Muslim won't be able to deny the Jewish.

Without freedom of religion, there is no religious freedom for any one.

This isn't just about Christians, this is about everyone's freedom to practice, follow and live their own religion.

So, do you think a Muslim merchant should be able to deny Jewish customers?
I would think this is what you are expecting. First the Muslim denies Jewish customers, Muslim denies Christian customers, then everyone denies service Christians.

Really. This is what you latch onto?

Big picture people.

Once one religion is dictated, the others will be in short succession.

The he freedom of religion law is good for every religion. It isn't about discriminating, it is about protecting a basic, fundimental right.

Tinydancer · Guru

You'll never get answers to those questions because they can't answer it in a Liberal way that makes any sense.

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
So, should a black baker have to bake a cake for a KKK meeting?

Only if the state passes a law protecting KKK members.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

One good thing about MM3:

The IGNORE function

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
So, should a black baker have to bake a cake for a KKK meeting?
Only if the state passes a law protecting KKK members.

What is that supposed to mean? They are already protected...

huskerbb · Guru

cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
So, should a black baker have to bake a cake for a KKK meeting?
Only if the state passes a law protecting KKK members.

That makes nonsense. Most states dont have laws protecting gays, yet here we are.

Ohfour · Hooker

Let the back peddling begin...

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
One good thing about MM3:

The IGNORE function

flan

Another liberal trait. When confronted by superior, more logical positions that they are wholly unable to refute--simply pretend they didnt happen.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
One good thing about MM3:

The IGNORE function

flan
Another liberal trait. When confronted by superior, more logical positions that they are wholly unable to refute--simply pretend they didnt happen.

I was NOT talking to you. I was talking to wikkiit.

flan