TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

RE: Big Gay Hate Machine closes Christian Pizzaria

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Yes.

flan

That's absurd. Being a business owner is not akin to indentured servitude.

You have now lost all credibility on this issue - your attitude is off the wall.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Sunday 5th of April 2015 08:45:39 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

It is all just so silly. What happens if they make the cake? Really, what is the worst? Will they be doomed to hell for all eternity? Is that really the straw that will break the camels back? I mean, come on.
Turning a cake into a grand moral statement is just silly. If you make cakes (or pizza, for that matter) it is just plain silly to decide to serve people based upon ff who you think they have sex with.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, I don't disagree. It's a cake. If I made cakes, then I make cakes. There is nothing immoral about making a cake. People can do whatever they want with the cake. I personally don't see a religious compunction to not make a cake. But that is me. However, if someone else does, then fine, don't make the cake. And, if the refuse enough cakes or others don't like their stance, then the free market will correct it in a way that they will either build up a niche business of like minded followers or go out of business. Either way, who cares? Why would you want someone to bake you a cake if they don't want too? It's assanine.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The Amish sell quilts. I am sure there probably has been some unmarried sex on or under those quilts? So, that doesn't seem to faze them.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.

We have 50 Shades of Grey as well as urban fiction available.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes.

flan
That's absurd. Being a business owner is not akin to indentured servitude.

You have now lost all credibility on this issue - your attitude is off the wall.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Sunday 5th of April 2015 08:45:39 PM

Because I disagree with you. Period.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.
We have 50 Shades of Grey as well as urban fiction available.
flan

That's not porn.

But nice dodge.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.
We have 50 Shades of Grey as well as urban fiction available.
flan
That's not porn.
But nice dodge.

Have you ever read any urban fiction? It most certainly is.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

But the analogy misses the mark. Libraries have filters on their public computers.

A business serves the public, and homosexuality just happens to be more "visible." Why is that lifestyle more heinous than others?

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Filters that could be removed.

Why not offer it? You are excluding a large portion of the population.

Freedom of religion means a right to practice it. To live it.

Taking away that right is not what America is. Or at least it use to not be.

Forcing someone to do something that is against their religion, participating in certain things, is not freedom of religion.

And this pizza place was targeted. No different than an act of terrorism.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

You need to keep business separate from personal. It's that simple.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No. You really don't. Not if you don't feel it's right to do something. You shouldn't be forced to do anything against you religion.

And if you feel it is against your religion, or puts you in a sinful situation, you should be able to refuse.

Freedom of religion is a guaranteed right.

Having a cake, pizza, or any other service, is not.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
You need to keep business separate from personal. It's that simple.

flan

Because you say so? Why should anyone have to do something against their beliefs? Why are you always trying to force the world to think just the same way you do. You talk about tolerance but you obviously don't even know what the word means or you choose to use it against others but never for yourself.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
It is all just so silly. What happens if they make the cake? Really, what is the worst? Will they be doomed to hell for all eternity? Is that really the straw that will break the camels back? I mean, come on.
Turning a cake into a grand moral statement is just silly. If you make cakes (or pizza, for that matter) it is just plain silly to decide to serve people based upon ff who you think they have sex with.

Silly to YOU - not to them. And you know what else is silly? The fact that a person choosing not to bake a cake is such a horrible, life slapping event you have to sue them. Go somewhere else and get a cake instead of trying to force someone who doesn't want to bake it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.
We have 50 Shades of Grey as well as urban fiction available.
flan

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.

The fact that you think the public gets to dictate what a service provider MUST do is absolutely stupid.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

But what if you live in a small town with very few providers of a service? The one florist in town doesn't want to sell you flowers for your gay wedding so you don't get flowers?! Sometimes there is no option to just go elsewhere. The next closest florist to us would be at least 30 minutes away and they may not deliver to this area. Saying "just go elsewhere" assumes that is an option. It's possible that is NOT a viable option. Just food for thought.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
So, flan - does your library provide pornography books? Because you shouldn't judge. You provide free reading materials to the public. If they want pornography, you should have to provide it just like all the other types of books.
We have 50 Shades of Grey as well as urban fiction available.
flan
That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.

The fact that you think the public gets to dictate what a service provider MUST do is absolutely stupid.

You've got it backwards.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

So, I can walk into a Kosher deli and require they make me non-kosher food?

And I can walk into an Indian restaurant and demand they make me steak?

And I can walk into a silk-screen shop and demand they make me shirts that say "Kill the gays"?

Or walk into a library and demand they provide me copies of playgirl magazine?

That is beyond ridiculous.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Every restaurant that I've ever been to has a MENU.

It's a bakery...They are NOT asking for lobster, only a CAKE.

If you came to my library, I would explain our collection development policy to you.

flan

burns07 · Guru

You've got it backwards.
____________________

you've obviously never owned or operated a serious business

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
So, I can walk into a Kosher deli and require they make me non-kosher food?

And I can walk into an Indian restaurant and demand they make me steak?

And I can walk into a silk-screen shop and demand they make me shirts that say "Kill the gays"?

Or walk into a library and demand they provide me copies of playgirl magazine?

That is beyond ridiculous.

Kosher delis don't offer non kosher food. Bakeries offer wedding cakes.

Indian restaurants dont offer steak. Bakeries offer wedding cakes.

Every silk screen shop I have been to has a posted policy about not printing profanity, etc. Bakeries offer wedding cakes.

The business you cited do not offer the service you cited. Bakeries and florists offer the services being asked for.

What is the disconnect? I honestly don't understand how you are confused by this

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?

So I ask again, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally?

burns07 · Guru

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?
So I ask again, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally?

Of course. They offer cakes, so they should make the damn cake and laugh like hell that the KKK gave money to a black business owner.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

burns07 wrote:

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government

And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?
So I ask again, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally?

The thought of comparing a HATE group to gays is offensive.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?
So I ask again, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally?
Of course. They offer cakes, so they should make the damn cake and laugh like hell that the KKK gave money to a black business owner.

And I guess if they have a problem with it, and really don't want to laugh about it, then to hell with them....

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
burns07 wrote:

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government
And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.

Exclamation point.

If you are invited to a gay wedding and disapprove of the lifestyle, don't go.

But if you run a bakery, bake the damn cake.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?
So I ask again, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally?
The thought of comparing a HATE group to gays is offensive.
flan

So? What's your point?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't that the bakery doesn't offer the service of wedding cakes and that's what being demanded of them. The bakery offers the service and says "we offer what you want, we just don't want to sell it to you because we don't like how you spend your time". How is that ok?

Because the Bible tells them so...

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It's a cake. A business transaction. It isn't a seal of approval or an endorsement of a lifestyle or condoning anything. It's a business transaction.

burns07 · Guru

The thought of comparing a HATE group to gays is offensive.
_________________________________________________

the act of referring to homosexuals as " gays " is deceptive and offensive to a lot of people

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

burns07 wrote:

The thought of comparing a HATE group to gays is offensive.
_________________________________________________

the act of referring to homosexuals as " gays " is deceptive and offensive to a lot of people

People here KNOW how I feel.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
It's a cake. A business transaction. It isn't a seal of approval or an endorsement of a lifestyle or condoning anything. It's a business transaction.

Amen!

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
It's a cake. A business transaction. It isn't a seal of approval or an endorsement of a lifestyle or condoning anything. It's a business transaction.

So you would be OK with making a tee shirt vendor print Gay is a Sin on tees...

burns07 · Guru

And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.
________________________________________________________________________________

they aren't deciding for their customers, they're deciding for themselves--which is absolutely their right

-- Edited by burns07 on Monday 6th of April 2015 10:52:13 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

burns07 wrote:

And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.
________________________________________________________________________________

they aren't deciding for their customers, their deciding for themselves--which is absolutely their right

Heck, they are already baking cakes for adulterers, atheists, child molesters...they just don't know it.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
burns07 wrote:

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government
And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.

Bull. A baker does not have to write anything on a cake they find morally or otherwise objectionable. It's the "right to refuse service" that every business has. I've asked for certain cakes at bakeries and been told "No, we can't do that."

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It's a cake. A business transaction. It isn't a seal of approval or an endorsement of a lifestyle or condoning anything. It's a business transaction.
So you would be OK with making a tee shirt vendor print Gay is a Sin on tees...

Yes. It is a business transaction. Not a commitment to abide by the philosophy of every customer you encounter. It's not a sentiment I agree with, but it's not my tshirt! I would find someone asking me to print a Tshirt thst says "worlds best dad" just as offensive because MY dad is the best. It's just s business transaction. The business isn't condoning a lifestyle or endorsing anything. It's a business transaction. Period.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
burns07 wrote:

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government
And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.
Bull. A baker does not have to write anything on a cake they find morally or otherwise objectionable. It's the "right to refuse service" that every business has. I've asked for certain cakes at bakeries and been told "No, we can't do that."

Why? Too difficult? Or because you're a homosexual?

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
burns07 wrote:

it isn't about bakeries or wedding cakes or widgets or indian restaurants--it IS about an individual's ( be it a natural person or not ) FREE choice as to what's a religious / moral / value-based decision FOR THEM--the customer ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT have the right to decide what is religiously / morally / value-based objectionable to ANYONE ( besides themselves ) and neither does the government
And the business has no right to decide what is morally objectionable about their customers. Period.
Bull. A baker does not have to write anything on a cake they find morally or otherwise objectionable. It's the "right to refuse service" that every business has. I've asked for certain cakes at bakeries and been told "No, we can't do that."

But gay people aren't asking for a cake that's any different than the other cakes already made. They are asking for a cake thst looks identical to the cake the bakery made for the other weddings. Not a different cake. The exact same cake. And the baker won't make it because the people who want it ware gay. Big difference.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It would be like the bakery refusing service to you because you were heterosexual and they do not believe in heterosexual marriages.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
It would be like the bakery refusing service to you because you were heterosexual and they do not believe in heterosexual marriages.

They have that right.

Ohfour · Hooker

And homosexuality is NOT a protected class...

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It would be like the bakery refusing service to you because you were heterosexual and they do not believe in heterosexual marriages.
They have that right.

And if they did it, they would be just as wrong.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ohfour wrote:
And homosexuality is NOT a protected class...

In some places it is. It is usually stated as "sexual preference" so that heterosexuals are included.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 6th of April 2015 11:01:59 AM

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
And homosexuality is NOT a protected class...
In some places it is. It is usually stated as "sexual preference" so that heterosexuals are included.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 6th of April 2015 11:01:59 AM

In SOME places. Not in 31 states, and not federally. Thus, the bakery has the right to refuse service.