TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: Big Gay Hate Machine closes Christian Pizzaria

Tinydancer · Guru

You'd have to actually engage in order to be done engaging but we all knew you wouldn't answer the question anyway.

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
I'm done engaging, chef.

flan

Let me get this straight. I ask you a question. You dance around it. I ask you to answer the actual question. You call me holier than thou. I ask why you did that. Now you say you're done engaging.

I don't know why you're running away but suit yourself.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

As far as I can tell, joining a message board does not give you, or anyone, the right to demand that I answer a question.

flan

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
As far as I can tell, joining a message board does not give you, or anyone, the right to demand that I answer a question.

flan

Asking is not demanding. You're clearly free to not answer (as you've already done - both by avoiding and deflecting).

However, I'm under the impression that message boards are meant for discussion of topics and, in the course of said discussions, questions will be asked. Shall I assume that you do not wish to engage in discussions, particularly those of the metacognitive sort?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Alright, what is the question?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright, what is the question?

Why is the homosexual's want of a cake, flowers, whatever more important than a Christian's Constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion?

Have at it, Dona.

I have already stated several times that it is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Period.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

But that doesn't answer the question flan. If it's a Christians Constitutional right not to have to bake that cake why does the homosexual have more of a right (with no Constitutional law behind them)? To the Christian it is not simply a business transaction it's condoning a sin.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright, what is the question?
Why is the homosexual's want of a cake, flowers, whatever more important than a Christian's Constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion?
Have at it, Dona.
I have already stated several times that it is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Period.
flan

So what? Peoples religious ethics don't apply to business?

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright, what is the question?
Why is the homosexual's want of a cake, flowers, whatever more important than a Christian's Constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion?
Have at it, Dona.
I have already stated several times that it is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Period.
flan

The question wasn't "Is it a business transaction?"

The question was: "Why is X more important than Y?"

It being a business transaction has nothing to do with X being more important than Y.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, it's a business transaction. And, if they refuse to make the cake, then they don't get paid. Pretty simple really.

Tinydancer · Guru

All these entitled people believe the world must do whatever they want. Have they never learned to take no for an answer? Businesses say no to jobs all the time but I guess forcing people to do something they don't want to is only bad if it's a Christian doing it.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright, what is the question?
Why is the homosexual's want of a cake, flowers, whateverin it important than a Christian's Constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion?
Have at it, Dona.
I have already stated several times that it is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Period.flan

Because freedom of religion means that churches of every faith are welcome. It means that simply existing as a Christian does not mean you fear the government will arrest you and your family in the night and execute you. You are free to worship. You are free to gather. You are free to pray. You are free to sing on buses, and pass out your liturature in subway tunnels.

It does not mean you are free to discriminate against others.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Because baking a cake is NOT condoning a lifestyle.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Seriously. Over seas, there are Christians beening raped, burned, tortured, and beheaded.
But OH MY GOODNESS a Christian here was asked to BAKE A CAKE for a GAY WEDDING?
Discriminatioooooon!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Because baking a cake is NOT condoning a lifestyle.

flan

And, neither is telling someone to take off their Burqua or turbain. It's just "clothing". Uh huh.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Seriously. Over seas, there are Christians beening raped, burned, tortured, and beheaded.
But OH MY GOODNESS a Christian here was asked to BAKE A CAKE for a GAY WEDDING?
Discriminatioooooon!

Except everyone gives lip service to religious freedom but apparently it only applies if you don't actually try to exercise it.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Seriously. Over seas, there are Christians beening raped, burned, tortured, and beheaded.
But OH MY GOODNESS a Christian here was asked to BAKE A CAKE for a GAY WEDDING?
Discriminatioooooon!
Except everyone gives lip service to religious freedom but apparently it only applies if you don't actually try to exercise it.

I have heard people preaching on street corners. They were not arrested.

I heard a woman singing on a public bus. After twenty minutes, someone politely asked her to stop, but the police were not waiting at the next stop for her.

I have been handed christian tracts at halloween and on the street. The givers of these tracts were not rounded up amd stoned.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

There is a ton of religious freedom, but now it is considered discrimination to refuse service based off sexual orientation.
Grow up and deal with it.

Tinydancer · Guru

What's so hard about taking your (general you) entitled butt over to another baker? It's just childish to demand that someone who doesn't want to you make them bake your cake...

chef · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright, what is the question?
Why is the homosexual's want of a cake, flowers, whateverin it important than a Christian's Constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion?
Have at it, Dona.
I have already stated several times that it is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Period.flan
Because freedom of religion means that churches of every faith are welcome. It means that simply existing as a Christian does not mean you fear the government will arrest you and your family in the night and execute you. You are free to worship. You are free to gather. You are free to pray. You are free to sing on buses, and pass out your liturature in subway tunnels.
It does not mean you are free to discriminate against others.

It also means the government does not prohibit the free exercise of one's religion. Forcing a person to go against their religious is prohibiting them from exercising their religion freely.

Also, there's that discriminate word again. What about the discrimination towards Christians? Their rights don't matter? Why is the homosexual's want of a cake or whatever more important?

Tinydancer · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
There is a ton of religious freedom, but now it is considered discrimination to refuse service based off sexual orientation.
Grow up and deal with it.

Except that it's being challenged all over the place and they're winning. You know why? Because it's a Constitutional right to refuse. If you don't like it try getting that changed.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

So, if someone does something illegal to you, you should ignore so they have zero consequences and are free to do it to others?
Nope.

chef · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
There is a ton of religious freedom, but now it is considered discrimination to refuse service based off sexual orientation.
Grow up and deal with it.

Grow up and deal with it? Tell that to the homosexuals who have sued because they just couldn't handle being told no. Tell that to all those people who made threats against the pizzeria. Or should just the religious people have to "grow up and deal with it?"

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
So, if someone does something illegal to you, you should ignore so they have zero consequences and are free to do it to others?
Nope.

That's one of the problems. It's NOT illegal. But they want to force people to do it anyway...

Tinydancer · Guru

Again it's not illegal to refuse. You just can't say why you're refusing. So I guess you'll get your way one way or another.

Tinydancer · Guru

Christian bakers will just have to come up with code words for why they're refusing. How about "I'm sick that week"?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
There is a ton of religious freedom, but now it is considered discrimination to refuse service based off sexual orientation.
Grow up and deal with it.

They aren't baking the cake. Grow up and deal with it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

How many times have we mentioned that it may be the only baker for miles?

flan

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Because baking a cake is NOT condoning a lifestyle.

flan

Frankly, I'm surprised you would call homosexuality a lifestyle.

And, it's not about baking a cake. It's about why a want should trump a Constitutionally guaranteed right.

Also, it's already been explained why it can be condoning a lifestyle (to use your word).

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Christian bakers will just have to come up with code words for why they're refusing. How about "I'm sick that week"?

Well, in reality, businesses can and do what they choose to do. You don't fire someone and say "I don't like you because you are a woman, etc". Instead, they just write up some BS on how you are cutting it at the job, etc. Or, if they choose a different candidate, they aren't going to say "we don't want any whacked Christians working here". They are going to just say "Sorry, we choose the other applicant who was a better fit, etc". It really isn't that hard. The bakers should have simply just said "Oh, I am sorry, we are swamped and will be unable to fit that into our schedule". End of story.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
How many times have we mentioned that it may be the only baker for miles?

flan

Oh noo! A "food dessert"! Wah!!!!! OMG, bake your own damn cake. Wow.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Christian bakers will just have to come up with code words for why they're refusing. How about "I'm sick that week"?
Well, in reality, businesses can and do what they choose to do. You don't fire someone and say "I don't like you because you are a woman, etc". Instead, they just write up some BS on how you are cutting it at the job, etc. Or, if they choose a different candidate, they aren't going to say "we don't want any whacked Christians working here". They are going to just say "Sorry, we choose the other applicant who was a better fit, etc". It really isn't that hard. The bakers should have simply just said "Oh, I am sorry, we are swamped and will be unable to fit that into our schedule". End of story.

The person requesting the cake is making a statement. The baker refusing is doing the same thing.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Tell me where this dearth of bakers is and I'll send my sister there. She won't ask questions and she'll make a bundle...lol

chef · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
So, if someone does something illegal to you, you should ignore so they have zero consequences and are free to do it to others?
Nope.

Depends what the illegal thing is. If they rob me, of course I'd report it. If they refused me service based on their religion, I'd do nothing because I 100% support religious freedom.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

What point are you trying to make?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, golly gee. I live in a town of 3500 people! We don't have any professional cake bakers!

Tinydancer · Guru

So the .0000001% of the population that does have access to bakers can order one online.

Tinydancer · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, golly gee. I live in a town of 3500 people! We don't have any professional cake bakers!

You should take up baking. Obviously there are gay couples standing in line looking for someone to say yes to baking their cake...lol

chef · Guru

Religious freedom aside, I can't fathom a circumstance in which I'd want to force someone to provide me a service. Especially for something as important as a wedding. It strikes me as incredibly stupid to piss off someone who you're hiring to help you.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Seriously. Over seas, there are Christians beening raped, burned, tortured, and beheaded.
But OH MY GOODNESS a Christian here was asked to BAKE A CAKE for a GAY WEDDING?
Discriminatioooooon!

Do you know why the Christians in America are not being arrested, beheaded, and all the rest?

Because of the first amendment.

But let's look at it, you are saying "it's just a cake, you can't discriminate. You must serve and we will pass laws to force you to serve". ( Not your words, paraphrasing. )

Do you not see how this, the forcing to serve, is a step toward the same discrimination going on in those other countries.

We we have the first amendment to protect ALL religions.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Not when it directly infringes on of person's religious objections. And it's not equal treatment they are seeking - it's special treatment. The baker would be more than happy to supply them a wedding cake for any heterosexual marriage. - Lawyerlady

________________________

It's not special treatment to seek a wedding cake for a legal wedding.

Suggesting that they should get heterosexually married and then get a cake for that is disingenuous at best and complete crap at worst. A wedding, from the legal standpoint for it, is supposed to be between people that love each other, want to commit to each other, and want the protections of the law that come with it.

I'll be on your side when homosexuals want to force gay marriage on churches by force of law, but that hasn't happened anywhere that I am aware of. Until then, if a person runs a business, they should treat their clients as Jesus commanded of them in John 13:34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

WYSIWYG · Guru

The real problem here is that the people arguing against the religious freedom aspect do not have the proper respect for the religious rights in this country. You treat them secondary, and they are not. - Lawyerlady

_______________________

I disagree. I see the real problem being some Christians thinking that it's acceptable to force their beliefs on others or discriminate against others in a business environment based on their beliefs. Not all Christians believe this, but enough do that it is a problem. No one is suggesting that anyone change their beliefs. What is being suggested is that people treat other people with the respect and dignity, and yes, love, that not only do they deserve as fellow humans beings, but as Jesus commanded.

WYSIWYG · Guru

But that doesn't answer the question flan. If it's a Christians Constitutional right not to have to bake that cake why does the homosexual have more of a right (with no Constitutional law behind them)? To the Christian it is not simply a business transaction it's condoning a sin. - Tinydancer

_____________________________

The Christians have the right to not bake a wedding cake, up until the point that they open a public bakery that offers wedding cakes. At that point they must serve legal requests by all customers for wedding cakes. A person walking into the shop, with cash in hand, or other form of payment available, constitutes a legal request. There is no denial of religious rights in wanting a wedding cake from a public business.

Some Christians believe it is condoning sin, Others do not agree and see making the cake as following Jesus' commandment of loving one another. Both have gotten their message from the same book. Who is right? I don't know. I do know I'd rather err on the side of love and respect than the side of hate, intolerance and discrimination.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
But that doesn't answer the question flan. If it's a Christians Constitutional right not to have to bake that cake why does the homosexual have more of a right (with no Constitutional law behind them)? To the Christian it is not simply a business transaction it's condoning a sin. - Tinydancer

_____________________________

The Christians have the right to not bake a wedding cake, up until the point that they open a public bakery that offers wedding cakes. At that point they must serve legal requests by all customers for wedding cakes. A person walking into the shop, with cash in hand, or other form of payment available, constitutes a legal request. There is no denial of religious rights in wanting a wedding cake from a public business.

Some Christians believe it is condoning sin, Others do not agree and see making the cake as following Jesus' commandment of loving one another. Both have gotten their message from the same book. Who is right? I don't know. I do know I'd rather err on the side of love and respect than the side of hate, intolerance and discrimination.

Ab.So.Friggin.Lutely.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Actually. No. No one has to serve everyone.

As a manager, I had the authority to refuse sevice to anyone. I didn't need to give a reason.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
But that doesn't answer the question flan. If it's a Christians Constitutional right not to have to bake that cake why does the homosexual have more of a right (with no Constitutional law behind them)? To the Christian it is not simply a business transaction it's condoning a sin. - Tinydancer

_____________________________

The Christians have the right to not bake a wedding cake, up until the point that they open a public bakery that offers wedding cakes. At that point they must serve legal requests by all customers for wedding cakes. A person walking into the shop, with cash in hand, or other form of payment available, constitutes a legal request. There is no denial of religious rights in wanting a wedding cake from a public business.

Some Christians believe it is condoning sin, Others do not agree and see making the cake as following Jesus' commandment of loving one another. Both have gotten their message from the same book. Who is right? I don't know. I do know I'd rather err on the side of love and respect than the side of hate, intolerance and discrimination.
Ab.So.Friggin.Lutely.
flan

Ah. There it is again.

That "hate, intolerance and discrimination".

Comical really.

I don't see a lot of love, tolerance or nondiscrimination coming from the gay agenda that would sue a business owner for standing firm on his beliefs.

Once again, when you begin limiting religious freedom of one religion, you are limiting religious freedom for all religions.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Actually. No. No one has to serve everyone.

As a manager, I had the authority to refuse sevice to anyone. I didn't need to give a reason.

Well, they do if they are indentured servants of government. Which seems to be the end goal of the Far Left.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

It's like the discomfort of the transgendered kid using the boys restroom somehow trumps the rights of all the girls who feel discomfort with a male in their bathroom.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Seriously. Over seas, there are Christians beening raped, burned, tortured, and beheaded.
But OH MY GOODNESS a Christian here was asked to BAKE A CAKE for a GAY WEDDING?
Discriminatioooooon!

Seriously, overseas there are homosexuals being tortured and killed just for being gay.

But OH MY GOODNESS, here they were denied a wedding cake because their wedding is a sin.

The HORRORS!