TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Awesome Doctor Note

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Well. You have to have policies.

What does the doctor care? He is getting paid.

Unless the bit about the tax dollars indicates that this was Medicaid. In which case, he won't likely see more than about $.36.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

It's the Canadian health care system. They have a single payer system. Like Europe.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

A doctor note after a several missed days fine. For one or twodays , ridiculous.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

We have to have one for 3 or more missed days. I think that's reasonable.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ok I didn't catch the Canadian.

Thanks.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Thing. Canadian thing.

Not functioning at full capacity here people.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Southern_Belle wrote:
We have to have one for 3 or more missed days. I think that's reasonable.

Yes, several days in a row, fine. But, there are some flus, etc that hang around. But, for a day or two, absurd. And, to spend $50 to get a note from your doctor like you are a little child ? Come on. If you are missing a lot of days of work, then yes, it would behoove you to explain why to your employer and possibly produce some documentation. But, if not, that is just really a ridiculous policy.

JPT · Senior Member

Yeah, Pizza Hut, I'll agree with your position when you can deliver an order to me correctly and in less than 90 minutes...our local one sucks donkey testicles.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Southern_Belle wrote:
We have to have one for 3 or more missed days. I think that's reasonable.

Do the 3 days have to be consecutive? What if you miss one day a week for 3 weeks running?

I had an employee once who abused the sick time policy. Our policy was 3 consecutive days out required a note. Well. He would call in 2 days running every other week. Technically he was ok under the policy. We ended up terminating him under a different policy which had something to do with "patterns of behavior disruptive to the business not otherwise included in this document". It took MUCH longer though. And we had to jump through so many more hoops to get him termed.

I also had an employee fake a cancer diagnosis and treatment. He was forging his doctor's notes. Always gave us photocopied notes, never any originals. That's how we ended up terminating him. It was such a delicate situation though that we had to have someone from corporate come and fire him. I sat in on it as a witness though.

JPT · Senior Member

When a company has a separate sick leave and vacation policy, it just begs for abuse.

When companies change to "PTO", it has been shown to reduce unplanned absence quite a bit. When someone wants a day off, and only has sick days left, they will call off work with no notice. If they have PTO time and want a day off, the likelihood of more notice reduces short staffing.

We used to have this problem way back when I worked for a company in So. Cal. They allowed x days of vacation and y days sick leave. There were employees who showed up, hardly ever used a sick day, and then those who called in sick (after using all their vacation days) on a Friday, Monday, etc. We knew they weren't sick, but the darned well wanted every single paid hour the company was willing to shell out. The ones who didn't abuse the policy started to get upset that they were covering for those who did.

I sat down, and drew up a policy for PTO (this was back when it wasn't all that common) to submit to the owners. It saved many overtime hours when shifts had to be covered on short notice.
Everyone was much happier.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I agree with PTO vs vaca and sick time. Why should those who come to work and don't use their sick time be penalized?

And in the OP, it's food service - there are very strict regulations about what symptoms prevent you from working. When I was at Target, our food service people knew exactly what to say to get the day off with no questions. The words vomit or diarrhea will get you a day off without question - coming to work with those problems is a food safety issue and they have to sign a paper saying they understood that. Well we just gave them the blueprint for how to call off!

Both of my issues happened with a PTO policy though - just terrible employees.

Ohfour · Hooker

We have vacation days, personal days, and sick days. But we don't have a lot of abuse. Most people only use a couple of sick days a year. And they have to be used before and STD kicks in.
.
I personally have 25 vacation days, 4 personal days, and 10 sick days.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

My mom has 5 sick days at her job and they expire at the end of the year. She has worked at the same firm for 30 years and has only ever taken maybe one or two sick days a year MAX. Well, she had a really bad bout of pneumonia last year. She didn't go to work for 2 full weeks. She called and told them she expected them to pay her anyway and calculated the number of sick hours (they can take it by the hour if they want) she let expire and said if they didn't pay her, she would be sure to never let another hour expire in the future. They paid her for it.

I thought she was being kind of harsh, but I understand where she is coming from. They have people who use up all their sick time before March. Just to call off, not because they are sick. And she never calls off.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

I think that I have more sick days than vacation days. I don't have personal days or PTO so I use my sick days if I need to be away from work for any reason. Except vacation. Vacation needs to be booked at least six months in advance in our company so if you need something last minute, sick time it is!

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Mellow Momma wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
We have to have one for 3 or more missed days. I think that's reasonable.
Do the 3 days have to be consecutive? What if you miss one day a week for 3 weeks running?

I had an employee once who abused the sick time policy. Our policy was 3 consecutive days out required a note. Well. He would call in 2 days running every other week. Technically he was ok under the policy. We ended up terminating him under a different policy which had something to do with "patterns of behavior disruptive to the business not otherwise included in this document". It took MUCH longer though. And we had to jump through so many more hoops to get him termed.

I also had an employee fake a cancer diagnosis and treatment. He was forging his doctor's notes. Always gave us photocopied notes, never any originals. That's how we ended up terminating him. It was such a delicate situation though that we had to have someone from corporate come and fire him. I sat in on it as a witness though.

Yes, consecutive. BUT. This is an "at will" state. They can fire you for whatever reason they choose. Poor attendance could be one of them.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I get 8.62 PDO hours a pay period. I can accumulate 360 hours. I currently have about 320.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Southern_Belle wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
We have to have one for 3 or more missed days. I think that's reasonable.
Do the 3 days have to be consecutive? What if you miss one day a week for 3 weeks running?

I had an employee once who abused the sick time policy. Our policy was 3 consecutive days out required a note. Well. He would call in 2 days running every other week. Technically he was ok under the policy. We ended up terminating him under a different policy which had something to do with "patterns of behavior disruptive to the business not otherwise included in this document". It took MUCH longer though. And we had to jump through so many more hoops to get him termed.

I also had an employee fake a cancer diagnosis and treatment. He was forging his doctor's notes. Always gave us photocopied notes, never any originals. That's how we ended up terminating him. It was such a delicate situation though that we had to have someone from corporate come and fire him. I sat in on it as a witness though.
Yes, consecutive. BUT. This is an "at will" state. They can fire you for whatever reason they choose. Poor attendance could be one of them.

I was in an "at will" state as well. But I worked for huge companies with hundreds of thousands of employees. So anything we did had to be by the book or the person involved could sue for "discrimination". I have never worked anywhere where we could just fire someone...there were always about a thousand hoops to jump through. Heck, I had en employee who was taking naps during his shift while he was supposed to be supervising the sales floor and we couldn't fire him for it because the policy manual didn't outright state that napping was not allowed. Thats what happens when companies get so terrified someone will sue them that they let things go.

Blankie · Guru

Good note. But I absolutely get why companies do this.

We have sick time abuse where I work. Heck, I know someone here who calls in sick almost every other Monday.

Requiring a sick note for a one-day occurrence is the only way some companies can crack down on abusers.

Sorry to say, but it's the abusers who ruin it for everyone, and make companies adopt policies like this.

Blankie · Guru

We accrue 10 sick days per year, but only to be used if you're sick. It doesn't expire every year, but the maximum you can have in the sick bank is 960 hours.

I have 960 hours. That's 24 weeks. Because I don't abuse it.

I'll be in good shape if I get a serious illness or something like that.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Years ago I worked for a company that gave us 6 sick days per year. If you didn't use them you got that dollar amount the paycheck before Christmas. Excellent incentive.

-- Edited by Southern_Belle on Friday 3rd of April 2015 03:54:20 PM

Blankie · Guru

Southern_Belle wrote:
Years ago I worked for a company that gave us 6 sick days per year. If you didn't use them you got that dollar amount the paycheck before Christmas. Excellent incentive.

-- Edited by Southern_Belle on Friday 3rd of April 2015 03:54:20 PM

I wish we had that. No cash out for our sick time.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I can sell 25 PDOs a quarter at 75% as long as I don't drop below 144 hours. No thanks.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Blankie wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
Years ago I worked for a company that gave us 6 sick days per year. If you didn't use them you got that dollar amount the paycheck before Christmas. Excellent incentive.

-- Edited by Southern_Belle on Friday 3rd of April 2015 03:54:20 PM
I wish we had that. No cash out for our sick time.

That would be amazing! Especially at the holidays!

The places I worked had such stringents rules about when you could take vacation time that people would often just call in sick instead. No vacation in the months of November or December. No vacations the last week of July or in August. No vacationa the two weeks before Easter. Well, I had 5 weeks of PTO there...it was freaking impossible to take it all without breaking one of those rules!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Blankie wrote:
Good note. But I absolutely get why companies do this.
We have sick time abuse where I work. Heck, I know someone here who calls in sick almost every other Monday.
Requiring a sick note for a one-day occurrence is the only way some companies can crack down on abusers.
Sorry to say, but it's the abusers who ruin it for everyone, and make companies adopt policies like this.

Exactly!

We we had a woman who would take a sick day every paycheck she accrued a full day's worth. It would be gone before the next paycheck. Then she would get sick and come to work and hack all over us. Blech.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Mellow Momma wrote:
That would be amazing! Especially at the holidays!

The places I worked had such stringents rules about when you could take vacation time that people would often just call in sick instead. No vacation in the months of November or December. No vacations the last week of July or in August. No vacationa the two weeks before Easter. Well, I had 5 weeks of PTO there...it was freaking impossible to take it all without breaking one of those rules!

I've had jobs like that. They only let you take time off when the kids have to go to school.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Exactly! So people just called in sick. I can see why companies require a note.

When I was pregnant, my doc would occasionally tell me something to not do at work (climb the ladder, lift more than 20 lbs, etc) and I always had her write me a note. She would say "you are the manager, just tell them you can't do it". I had to explain to her that I needed a note so no one could say I was being treated differently. Sometimes docs just don't get it.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Being sick for 1 or 2 days does not warrant a trip to the Doctor. That's ridiculous. And, if someone misses too much time, then yes, have a policy in place for that but for the avg working person, it is total Bullschit to be treated like a child.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Mellow Momma wrote:
Exactly! So people just called in sick. I can see why companies require a note.

When I was pregnant, my doc would occasionally tell me something to not do at work (climb the ladder, lift more than 20 lbs, etc) and I always had her write me a note. She would say "you are the manager, just tell them you can't do it". I had to explain to her that I needed a note so no one could say I was being treated differently. Sometimes docs just don't get it.

Those are the ones who never had a "regular" job.

Honeys_Mom · Mod & Permanent Board Sweetheart

Mellow Momma wrote:
My mom has 5 sick days at her job and they expire at the end of the year. She has worked at the same firm for 30 years and has only ever taken maybe one or two sick days a year MAX. Well, she had a really bad bout of pneumonia last year. She didn't go to work for 2 full weeks. She called and told them she expected them to pay her anyway and calculated the number of sick hours (they can take it by the hour if they want) she let expire and said if they didn't pay her, she would be sure to never let another hour expire in the future. They paid her for it.

I thought she was being kind of harsh, but I understand where she is coming from. They have people who use up all their sick time before March. Just to call off, not because they are sick. And she never calls off.

MM, I actually admire your mom for this. I'm glad they paid her.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Wayne has been very healthy and maybe a little bit lucky. He's been with the same company coming up on 37 years in June.

He's taken 3 sick days, in his life. smile

And no, you can't save them, or get paid for them, where he works. cry

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The problem with incentives for not using sick time is that people will then come to work sick and infect others.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

They come sick at my place. The hours all in one fund so they want to save them for pleasure time. Not sick time.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Southern_Belle wrote:
They come sick at my place. The hours all in one fund so they want to save them for pleasure time. Not sick time.

Which is counter-productive. They don't do their job well while sick, and they get others sick.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Lawyerlady wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
They come sick at my place. The hours all in one fund so they want to save them for pleasure time. Not sick time.
Which is counter-productive. They don't do their job well while sick, and they get others sick.

Yep. Pisses me off. I don't want to get sick. Keep your germs at home. I'm smart with my time so I could afford to stay home a week and heal. Some people take a day as soon as they get it and whine when they get sick and have no PDOS.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, you can't win. There are a lot of employers who punish people who don't come to work, even if truly sick. Which is idiotic but God forbid they can't get through one day because someone is at home sick.
Then, on the other hand, there are the idiots who come in and cough and hack and sneeze all over everyone else.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

IMO if a company can't get by for a few days without a sick employee then they are understaffed. How are people supposed to take vacation if they can't operate minus anyone?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly. And, people get sick. It's a fact of life. Sheesh. Whining and acting like it's the end of the world because someone misses a couple of days of work due to the flu is a poorly run company and manager. Yeah, it's inconvenient as it throws a bit of a wrench into things, but you accept it as a fact of life and make do. But, if someone is missing too much time, then the boss can look into it.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I have worked in places where people were told they are not allowed to use their vacation time. Or, if they are allowed to use it, they are not allowed to use it in the summer but only when the manager says yes. The WORST managers are the ones who won't allow their staff to schedule their vacays. Many people can and want to schedule them weeks or months in advance but some managers say, no, no, no. And, will only let them schedule like a week or so before which means those people can never plan a trip.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Yeah, I don't get that. Reservations need to be made. Tickets need to be bought. My employer is pretty good about giving people what they want but some people wait until a week ahead of time and expect the days off. Boss has a huge wall calendar and marks an X through days where the maximum amount of people are already off. People get all pissy when they submit a last minute request and get denied.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Exactly. And, people get sick. It's a fact of life. Sheesh. Whining and acting like it's the end of the world because someone misses a couple of days of work due to the flu is a poorly run company and manager. Yeah, it's inconvenient as it throws a bit of a wrench into things, but you accept it as a fact of life and make do. But, if someone is missing too much time, then the boss can look into it.

At the places I worked, only 3 people were allowed to have keys to the building. If one of those 3 people called off, it meant one of the other 2 was working a 15 hour day. Training someone to perform all the management functions in case of a call off would have been prudent - but not practical, and not allowed.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes. But people get sick. I have worked 15 hour days due to a call off. If you get sick you get sick. I have taken very few sick days, but if someone is vomiting or in the ER or whatever, you have to make do at work.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I don't mind working extra if someone is truly sick. We have a few techs that call out EVERY time they are supposed to be on call. Some have gotten written warnings about it.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes. But people get sick. I have worked 15 hour days due to a call off. If you get sick you get sick. I have taken very few sick days, but if someone is vomiting or in the ER or whatever, you have to make do at work.

And if they are truly sick, I didn't mind either. But the people who did it every time they accrued enough time to do it - I wanted to punch them in the face. And we had to give them so many chances to improve their behavior before we could fire them that I ended up working a 15 hour day every week or so. When you are trying to ensure your kids can get home from school and get to practice and have dinner on the table with zero notice that you won't be home until 11pm that night - it's a little more than inconvenient. It's downright impossible.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I love it when people abuse the PDO syatem and then want donations when they really do get sick. Nope. My hours are mine. I worked hard and missed extra fun times to accrue them. I have donated on more than one occasion to people I knew who truly needed them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes. But people get sick. I have worked 15 hour days due to a call off. If you get sick you get sick. I have taken very few sick days, but if someone is vomiting or in the ER or whatever, you have to make do at work.
And if they are truly sick, I didn't mind either. But the people who did it every time they accrued enough time to do it - I wanted to punch them in the face. And we had to give them so many chances to improve their behavior before we could fire them that I ended up working a 15 hour day every week or so. When you are trying to ensure your kids can get home from school and get to practice and have dinner on the table with zero notice that you won't be home until 11pm that night - it's a little more than inconvenient. It's downright impossible.

Of course. You hope that when you hire people that you are hiring Professional people. I will bend over backwards to never miss work. My kids and DH understand that I will only miss if I absolutely have too. And, DH rarely takes a sick day. When the kids were little, though, we sometimes had to make a quick decision if one of them was sick and one of us had to stay home. Honestly, it is easier for DH to call off than me because there is no replacement for me at work. So, sometimes he took off. Now, if one of the kids are sick, if it is relatively minor like a fever and feeling ill, they just stay home by themselves and I will call in. I only work a few blocks from home and if I had to get home quickly I could. Also, sometimes I have really long days and some days are like half days where I can leave so it usually works out.