TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

RE: I’m a dad. So why do people call me ‘Mrs.’?

huskerbb · Guru

Heck, even today for MOST people, the choices are still limited. Sure, SOME women (and men) CAN choose between a career and child-rearing, or both.

Not so for large swaths of the population. I'm betting many single parents would like to be able to do one or the other--but are forced into doing both. Many two-career families cannot afford daycare, so one partner or the other has to sacrifice their career altogether, or take part-time work to balance it out.

Many men would probably like to stay home with their children more--but finances or other circumstances won't allow it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.

What are you arguing? You are proving the point.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.
What are you arguing? You are proving the point.

??? The point is that you want to blame "centuries" of men for leaving child rearing duties to women--when it's only been in the last century or so that they had any real choice in the matter.

Tinydancer · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.
What are you arguing? You are proving the point.
??? The point is that you want to blame "centuries" of men for leaving child rearing duties to women--when it's only been in the last century or so that they had any real choice in the matter.

Waah waah. Men had the privilege of choice and because they didn't value child rearing as much as other pursuits they MADE a choice. You prove the point with the bolded. The women were working the fields and the main caretaker of the home and children.

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.
What are you arguing? You are proving the point.
??? The point is that you want to blame "centuries" of men for leaving child rearing duties to women--when it's only been in the last century or so that they had any real choice in the matter.
Waah waah. Men had the privilege of choice and because they didn't value child rearing as much as other pursuits they MADE a choice. You prove the point with the bolded. The women were working the fields and the main caretaker of the home and children.

Again, you are simply wrong. For most of history, they did not have a choice.

You seem to know almost nothing about history prior to 1950.

Tinydancer · Guru

Spoiler
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.
What are you arguing? You are proving the point.
??? The point is that you want to blame "centuries" of men for leaving child rearing duties to women--when it's only been in the last century or so that they had any real choice in the matter.
Waah waah. Men had the privilege of choice and because they didn't value child rearing as much as other pursuits they MADE a choice. You prove the point with the bolded. The women were working the fields and the main caretaker of the home and children.
Again, you are simply wrong. For most of history, they did not have a choice.

You seem to know almost nothing about history prior to 1950.

Again you are simply wrong. You seem to misunderstand history prior to 1950.

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Spoiler
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men had all the power for centuries yet they forced their wives to have no choice. You stayed home and raised the children. If men had allowed us to work sooner (heck maybe even vote sooner) you all could have chosen child rearing so yes it's on men that women do most of the childrearing. Even the Bible supports this way of life so don't blame us is my only point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was my point tons of posts back. Don't blame women because of the stereotypes that MEN forced on us long ago. Stereotypes are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you don't like the reason it just is.

But you are just wrong. It wasn't a matter of saying "ok I'll stay home while you go work." That was not even a possibility. There were no jobs for women in wider society until the industrial revolution--and the few that did exist were EXACTLY the same as what they were doing at home.
It's beyond foolish to say that it was a matter of men "allowing" women to work outside the home. Such work did not even exist until recently.
Women were also not allowed to own property except in very special circumstances. It is ridiculous to try to pretend our society wasn't completely paternalistic until about 100 years ago.
???? Um, duh. Of course it was--but until about 200 years ago, or even less, there were not many other options.

Again, let's say that in the year 1400 men would have said "ok, I'll stay home and you leave the house to work".

It would not have even been possible. There were VERY few jobs that earned a wage. Most people were farming peasants--which the women were already taking part in doing. There were NO JOBS even available to all but a very few women--and many of those were either as domestic help or, um, of the carnal variety.
What are you arguing? You are proving the point.
??? The point is that you want to blame "centuries" of men for leaving child rearing duties to women--when it's only been in the last century or so that they had any real choice in the matter.
Waah waah. Men had the privilege of choice and because they didn't value child rearing as much as other pursuits they MADE a choice. You prove the point with the bolded. The women were working the fields and the main caretaker of the home and children.
Again, you are simply wrong. For most of history, they did not have a choice.

You seem to know almost nothing about history prior to 1950.

Again you are simply wrong. You seem to misunderstand history prior to 1950.

But I'm not wrong. I'm 100% right.

Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of history would know you are wrong.

Tinydancer · Guru

Then you obviously don't even have a cursory knowledge of history because you're wrong.

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Then you obviously don't even have a cursory knowledge of history because you're wrong.

That only explains your position.

I've shown you several examples of how I'm right. You have shown--nothing.

Tinydancer · Guru

I have history and the whole point of the argument. Stereotypes about women being the primary child care parent are stereotypes for a reason. You can prattle on about all the other nonsense but it doesn't change history or womens role as the primary care giver so you have--nothing.

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
I have history and the whole point of the argument. Stereotypes about women being the primary child care parent are stereotypes for a reason. You can prattle on about all the other nonsense but it doesn't change history or womens role as the primary care giver so you have--nothing.

??? Where do you even get your nonsense. Show me where I said that women were not the primary caregivers for children.

I never said any such thing.

You can't even read, apparently.

Tinydancer · Guru

Nonsense is what you keep spouting. You never did say women weren't the primary care givers but you kept prattling on about how it wasn't men's fault but societies fault. Guess what? Up until about 200 years ago women were considered property so if women were property who decided it was her place to stay home and care for the children? A society of men perhaps?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Women being primary caregivers isn't a "fault". I WANT to raise my own children. So, there is no "fault" to be assigned. Women give birth and breastfeed, so the "fault" is God's . That is how we are designed. Most women WANT to raise their children. It isn't a burden but a privilege.

Tinydancer · Guru

I'm not saying it's a fault. I'm saying there are stereotypes. I've loved being a mother and enjoyed watching them grow and become wonderful adults.

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Nonsense is what you keep spouting. You never did say women weren't the primary care givers but you kept prattling on about how it wasn't men's fault but societies fault. Guess what? Up until about 200 years ago women were considered property so if women were property who decided it was her place to stay home and care for the children? A society of men perhaps?

so then I was right and you are wrong. Just as I said.

Tinydancer · Guru

No but nice try...lol