TOTALLY GEEKED!

The priest thing hit home for me as well. One, my friend's brother (a priest) confessed to having relations with teenage boys and was defrocked. Another friend took a priest into her home and family and he molested at least one of her 6 sons, and another killed himself when his brother wanted to report the matter to the police. After I anonymously reported this priest, he was transferred and is now a Cardinal. That sickens me. But my faith is not in the clergy, it's in God and his Son.le to 

What those priests did was horrible.  But I have to wonder why the parents permitted their children so much alone time with these men.  I know my friend was in love with her priest...and thought he felt the same about her.  But others?  Allowing overnight stays?   These priests, or at least the ones I knew who molested, established relationships with these boys over time to gain trust.   Personally, that would raise a big red flag to me if an adult, any adult (outside of most of my own family members) attempted to become "close" with my boys.  

flan327 wrote:

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I've always hated the fact that Catholic priests cannot marry.

flan

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 I agree.  Do you think it has to do with money?  The Church would have to fork out a lot more money to support a family rather than just one single man.

FNW wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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I've always hated the fact that Catholic priests cannot marry.

flan

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 I agree.  Do you think it has to do with money?  The Church would have to fork out a lot more money to support a family rather than just one single man.

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I honestly don't know. It just seems that they are forcing men to behave in an unnatural way.

flan 

flan327 wrote:

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FNW wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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I've always hated the fact that Catholic priests cannot marry.

flan

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 I agree.  Do you think it has to do with money?  The Church would have to fork out a lot more money to support a family rather than just one single man.

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I honestly don't know. It just seems that they are forcing men to behave in an unnatural way.

flan 

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 Celibacy is not unnatural.  It's a choice.  We are not rutting animals.

flan327 wrote:

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Sex is not dirty.

flan

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Nobody said it was. 

FNW wrote:

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The priest thing hit home for me as well. One, my friend's brother (a priest) confessed to having relations with teenage boys and was defrocked. Another friend took a priest into her home and family and he molested at least one of her 6 sons, and another killed himself when his brother wanted to report the matter to the police. After I anonymously reported this priest, he was transferred and is now a Cardinal. That sickens me. But my faith is not in the clergy, it's in God and his Son.le to 

What those priests did was horrible.  But I have to wonder why the parents permitted their children so much alone time with these men.  I know my friend was in love with her priest...and thought he felt the same about her.  But others?  Allowing overnight stays?   These priests, or at least the ones I knew who molested, established relationships with these boys over time to gain trust.   Personally, that would raise a big red flag to me if an adult, any adult (outside of most of my own family members) attempted to become "close" with my boys.  

-- Edited by FNW on Thursday 9th of April 2015 10:05:17 AM

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 FNW, That's horrible what happened to the people you know. And I agree, people were too trusting of priests. Now I hope that has changed. To me, a clergyperson has to earn my respect.

I actually don't believe clergy is any holier or deserving of more respect than any layperson. I know laypeople who have a very deep faith life, who are probably closer to God than some clergy. And I know that some clergy are truly evil. Human is human. God is God.

I believe that Cardinal you mentioned will get his karmic reward. He has to reckon with God. He probably already dwells in hell - I believe we make our own hell.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Sex is not dirty.

flan

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Nobody said it was. 

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This implies it:

We are not rutting animals.

flan

 

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 It means we have a choice about whether or not we have sex.  And choosing NOT to have sex is NOT unnatural.  That's in insult to everyone who chooses celibacy for whatever reason.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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And FTR - Priests are not FORCED to live a life a celibacy. They CHOOSE to become priests.

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I have a cousin who is a priest, so, yes, I KNOW THEY CHOOSE.

My point is that they may not fully comprehend the consequences of their choice until they have experienced years of celibacy.

flan 

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And FTR - Priests are not FORCED to live a life a celibacy. They CHOOSE to become priests.

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I have a cousin who is a priest, so, yes, I KNOW THEY CHOOSE.

My point is that they may not fully comprehend the consequences of their choice until they have experienced years of celibacy.

flan 

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 Well then they can leave the priesthood and celibacy behind. If you don't think you (general you) can handle the celibacy then don't become a Catholic Priest. There are many other ways they can serve God or they could be a Priest in some other denomination. Choosing to do something of your own free will is still a choice.

flan327 wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And FTR - Priests are not FORCED to live a life a celibacy. They CHOOSE to become priests.

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I have a cousin who is a priest, so, yes, I KNOW THEY CHOOSE.

My point is that they may not fully comprehend the consequences of their choice until they have experienced years of celibacy.

flan 

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Then they are quite stupid.  Plus, they can always leave the priesthood.  It's not a crime... 

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 Thanks, I'll tell my cousin that the next time I see him.

flan

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So he has discussed his sexual desire with you? 

Tinydancer wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And FTR - Priests are not FORCED to live a life a celibacy. They CHOOSE to become priests.

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I have a cousin who is a priest, so, yes, I KNOW THEY CHOOSE.

My point is that they may not fully comprehend the consequences of their choice until they have experienced years of celibacy.

flan 

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Then they are quite stupid.  Plus, they can always leave the priesthood.  It's not a crime... 

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 Thanks, I'll tell my cousin that the next time I see him.

flan

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 Sorry but your cousin was stupid if he became a Catholic Priest but didn't think about his celibacy.

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 Or young and didn't think things through.

FNW wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And FTR - Priests are not FORCED to live a life a celibacy. They CHOOSE to become priests.

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I have a cousin who is a priest, so, yes, I KNOW THEY CHOOSE.

My point is that they may not fully comprehend the consequences of their choice until they have experienced years of celibacy.

flan 

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Then they are quite stupid.  Plus, they can always leave the priesthood.  It's not a crime... 

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 Thanks, I'll tell my cousin that the next time I see him.

flan

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 Sorry but your cousin was stupid if he became a Catholic Priest but didn't think about his celibacy.

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 Or young and didn't think things through.

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I just think that you can't fully be prepared for the effects of years of celibacy: hence the scandals with certain priests.

flan 

FNW wrote:

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My father was going to join as well, but then he met my mother.

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And if he hadn't...we wouldn't have you!

flan 

Blankie wrote:

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I think a celibacy requirement is ill-advised. We are sexual beings, and being married doesn't diminish your vocation. Protestant ministers don't have to be celibate, to the best of my knowledge. And they are able to be effective still. Actually a clergyperson is more effective with issues of marriage and family when they know something of what they speak. I'll never forget the premarital counseling I got by a parish priest who knew absolutely nothing about marriage!

I know a great former priest who left because of the celibacy thing. The church lost a good one.

And the Catholic church has been struggling for decades to attract more new priests. If there was no celibacy requirement, and if women could be priests, they would do much better.

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 Not going to happen.  That's a core tenet of the Catholic Church.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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I have been noticing something. A common in a lot of atheists/agnostics.

I am not saying this lightly. Not making fun or poking any one.

It seems that a common denominator in atheists/agnostics is that they were at one time practicing Catholics.

Any thoughts on this?

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 I was never Catholic.  I have attended Catholic church many time with my friend.  I have actually attended many different denominations looking for one that fit.  I just never could fully wrap my head around the Christian faith.  It just didn't ring true for me.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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I have been noticing something. A common in a lot of atheists/agnostics.

I am not saying this lightly. Not making fun or poking any one.

It seems that a common denominator in atheists/agnostics is that they were at one time practicing Catholics.

Any thoughts on this?

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 Not sure.  Then again, I know a lot of former Catholics who went on to other Christian faiths..."born again" they say.  

Catholicism is a very structured religion.  Maybe  some don't care for structure and that turns them off religion altogether?   Or because of the scandal, although a lot of religions have faced scandal?  Maybe they resent the power and wealth of the Church?   

FNW wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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I have been noticing something. A common in a lot of atheists/agnostics.

I am not saying this lightly. Not making fun or poking any one.

It seems that a common denominator in atheists/agnostics is that they were at one time practicing Catholics.

Any thoughts on this?

---

 Not sure.  Then again, I know a lot of former Catholics who went on to other Christian faiths..."born again" they say.  

 

Catholicism is a very structured religion.  Maybe  some don't care for structure and that turns them off religion altogether?   Or because of the scandal, although a lot of religions have faced scandal?  Maybe they resent the power and wealth of the Church?   

 

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 Obviously it's a very personal decision.

When I started attending Mass, it was in Latin & the priest faced away from the congregation. Our religious education consisted of rote memorization, which meant absolutely nothing to a 6-year-old.

Then, as things changed (too little, too late, imo), I started questioning: If the Church can't make up its mind on the basics...

flan

Bonny22Pye wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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FNW wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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I have been noticing something. A common in a lot of atheists/agnostics.

I am not saying this lightly. Not making fun or poking any one.

It seems that a common denominator in atheists/agnostics is that they were at one time practicing Catholics.

Any thoughts on this?

---

 Not sure.  Then again, I know a lot of former Catholics who went on to other Christian faiths..."born again" they say.  

 

Catholicism is a very structured religion.  Maybe  some don't care for structure and that turns them off religion altogether?   Or because of the scandal, although a lot of religions have faced scandal?  Maybe they resent the power and wealth of the Church?   

 

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 Obviously it's a very personal decision.

When I started attending Mass, it was in Latin & the priest faced away from the congregation. Our religious education consisted of rote memorization, which meant absolutely nothing to a 6-year-old.

Then, as things changed (too little, too late, imo), I started questioning: If the Church can't make up its mind on the basics...

flan

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 I don't think its a matter of them making up their minds on the basics.  Its a matter of the church modernizing itself.  A church is a living thing and must change to stay relevant with the needs to its parishioners.  

Having mass be in the common language is a pretty great change IMHO.

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 I knew that wasn't exactly what I wanted to say Bonny...

I think what hit me, even as a child, was the implied disdain for the members of the congregation: the priest was communing with God, because that was all that mattered.

flan

FNW wrote:

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I'll agree that growing up it was all a bunch of memorization. I feel like I know nothing about the Bible. I used to sit in Church and think about my week and not listen to the Gospel or liturgy. Especially when we went to Latin Mass.

Today, the focus is more on the Bible and teaching from it. I see it in my boys when they come out of class each week. They actually know the stories and explain things. They draw pictures and perform activities. They also attend a "children's Mass" in the chapel concurrently with the adult's Mass. Same sermon, taught a more child-friendly level. They say they forgot what they learned during Mass, but later things come up from what they heard in there. But kids process information differently from adults, and at a different rate, so it's possible they didn't learn it at the time, but reflect on it later. Either way, they are getting something out of it. During "sign of peace", they always shake hands in the air. They say since God is everywhere, they are shaking hands with God.

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 That is adorable and your boy's are correct.