TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

woman who witnessed a mother berating her daughter in public

NAOW · Vette's SS

Those were heartbreaking. Is the original letter around?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I just think about the fact that these people have no idea what that kid has done all day. Maybe that kid has had a zillion reminders and gentle nudges to behave and ignored every one of them. Maybe that kid has pushed every button mom has. Maybe, just maybe, that kid needs a good talking to.

That being said, there is no place for verbal abuse. That is wrong. But I have been in public and telling my kid "that's it! You just used your last chance! No tv for you tonight, and you are going straight to your room after dinner!" and had a busy body tell try and tell me to give the kid another chance. I told her I would respect her opinion of she had been present for every thing she did all morning but since she wasn't, I would deal with it how I saw fit.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
I just think about the fact that these people have no idea what that kid has done all day. Maybe that kid has had a zillion reminders and gentle nudges to behave and ignored every one of them. Maybe that kid has pushed every button mom has. Maybe, just maybe, that kid needs a good talking to.

That being said, there is no place for verbal abuse. That is wrong. But I have been in public and telling my kid "that's it! You just used your last chance! No tv for you tonight, and you are going straight to your room after dinner!" and had a busy body tell try and tell me to give the kid another chance. I told her I would respect her opinion of she had been present for every thing she did all morning but since she wasn't, I would deal with it how I saw fit.

I once recounted the story of the grandmother who brought her 3-year-old grandson to the library. They played for almost an hour, then came up to check out books. The boy had 6 Scooby Doo paperbacks. The grandmother decided he could only check out 3 of them.

We calmed him down.

Then, after the books had been checked out, the grandmother decided to teach him a lesson and walked to the desk and turned them back in.

The child was sobbing, "Please let me have my books."

If it was ugly now, it soon got uglier.

MM, I know that you are not "that" kind of parent. But, you cannot convince me that that poor little boy did anything to deserve the treatment he got that day.

flan

NAOW · Vette's SS

I agree MM. That is true too.

Flan, no, that doesn't sound right, but I know I second guess myself and question my choices and there are times I know I did the exact wrong thing. Maybe that grandma went home and realized her mistake.

I already look back on so many things I have done and regretted the way I handled them. I think I am learning though :)

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I just think about the fact that these people have no idea what that kid has done all day. Maybe that kid has had a zillion reminders and gentle nudges to behave and ignored every one of them. Maybe that kid has pushed every button mom has. Maybe, just maybe, that kid needs a good talking to.

That being said, there is no place for verbal abuse. That is wrong. But I have been in public and telling my kid "that's it! You just used your last chance! No tv for you tonight, and you are going straight to your room after dinner!" and had a busy body tell try and tell me to give the kid another chance. I told her I would respect her opinion of she had been present for every thing she did all morning but since she wasn't, I would deal with it how I saw fit.
I once recounted the story of the grandmother who brought her 3-year-old grandson to the library. They played for almost an hour, then came up to check out books. The boy had 6 Scooby Doo paperbacks. The grandmother decided he could only check out 3 of them.
We calmed him down.
Then, after the books had been checked out, the grandmother decided to teach him a lesson and walked to the desk and turned them back in.
The child was sobbing, "Please let me have my books."
If it was ugly now, it soon got uglier.
MM, I know that you are not "that" kind of parent. But, you cannot convince me that that poor little boy did anything to deserve the treatment he got that day.
flan

Sometimes, some kids don't learn until the punishment hits home like that. If he threw a big fit, I might have returned his books too. You don't get a reward for acting like a brat. But with out seeing the whole situation I can't tell if she over reacted or not.

Verbal abuse is wrong. But so is raising a kid without consequences for their behavior. If you act up in public, I guarantee I will not give you what you want.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

NAOW wrote:
I agree MM. That is true too.

Flan, no, that doesn't sound right, but I know I second guess myself and question my choices and there are times I know I did the exact wrong thing. Maybe that grandma went home and realized her mistake.

I already look back on so many things I have done and regretted the way I handled them. I think I am learning though :)

All I know is that that poor boy will associate the library with a terrible day.

And the grandmother should have told him: "We are checking out 3 books today." Guess what? Library books are FREE.

If he had been in the grocery store whining for candy...but he wasn't.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I just think about the fact that these people have no idea what that kid has done all day. Maybe that kid has had a zillion reminders and gentle nudges to behave and ignored every one of them. Maybe that kid has pushed every button mom has. Maybe, just maybe, that kid needs a good talking to.

That being said, there is no place for verbal abuse. That is wrong. But I have been in public and telling my kid "that's it! You just used your last chance! No tv for you tonight, and you are going straight to your room after dinner!" and had a busy body tell try and tell me to give the kid another chance. I told her I would respect her opinion of she had been present for every thing she did all morning but since she wasn't, I would deal with it how I saw fit.
I once recounted the story of the grandmother who brought her 3-year-old grandson to the library. They played for almost an hour, then came up to check out books. The boy had 6 Scooby Doo paperbacks. The grandmother decided he could only check out 3 of them.
We calmed him down.
Then, after the books had been checked out, the grandmother decided to teach him a lesson and walked to the desk and turned them back in.
The child was sobbing, "Please let me have my books."
If it was ugly now, it soon got uglier.
MM, I know that you are not "that" kind of parent. But, you cannot convince me that that poor little boy did anything to deserve the treatment he got that day.
flan
Sometimes, some kids don't learn until the punishment hits home like that. If he threw a big fit, I might have returned his books too. You don't get a reward for acting like a brat. But with out seeing the whole situation I can't tell if she over reacted or not.
Verbal abuse is wrong. But so is raising a kid without consequences for their behavior. If you act up in public, I guarantee I will not give you what you want.

They were literally 3 feet away from us. He didn't throw a big fit.

There were 2 of us at the reference desk. We both felt sick.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Maybe she was worried he would take the books home and she would struggle to return them. Maybe she told him at home "only 3" but he always tries to push for more. Maybe he has a tendency to lose things or ruin them and she didn't want to get more than she could afford to replace...there are a TON of variables we just don't know...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
Maybe she was worried he would take the books home and she would struggle to return them. Maybe she told him at home "only 3" but he always tries to push for more. Maybe he has a tendency to lose things or ruin them and she didn't want to get more than she could afford to replace...there are a TON of variables we just don't know...

Agreeing to disagree, MM.

Then why let him check out any books? They had fun playing for a long time, and the kid was not loud or disruptive.

flan

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I liked the approach of, you look like you're having a tough time, can I help in any way? Although I can see how it might come off as condescending

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

People need to butt out.

Like MM said, you don't know what else has happened to get to that point.

People say "they need to be the parent, take responsibility" but the second they do it's "how dare they, they are abusung them".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
People need to butt out.

Like MM said, you don't know what else has happened to get to that point.

People say "they need to be the parent, take responsibility" but the second they do it's "how dare they, they are abusung them".

There's a lot of grey area, actually.

And sometimes parents actually ARE abusing their children. What often concerns me: If a parent is acting badly in public, what in the world are they doing at home?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

My mom, who was a wonderful mother, said she was out in public one time with my brother and he was acting out. She began to correct him. Some strange woman came over and said "You are going to give him a complex". My mom looked at her and said "Well, why not, he's already given ME a complex!" LOL!!!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I like this:

Once, when I thought that a woman was about to hit her daughter, I went up to the mom and said quietly, so only she could hear, "You're all she has." It stopped her cold. I've used it as my own mantra when I was losing my temper.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
I like this:

Once, when I thought that a woman was about to hit her daughter, I went up to the mom and said quietly, so only she could hear, "You're all she has." It stopped her cold. I've used it as my own mantra when I was losing my temper.

flan

Or, the reverse , she is all YOU have.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Hit or spank?

And correcting a child, discipline, punishment, even raising your voice is NOT abuse.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Hit or spank?

And correcting a child, discipline, punishment, even raising your voice is NOT abuse.

Emotional abuse does exist.

flan

Divine Geek · Guru

I was at work one nice spring day with the door propped open. I hear a woman screaming at a child, who from my estimation was in the 3yo range (still in a car seat, which was what this lady was screaming about). They were probably 50 some yards away, and I could clearly hear the yelling and swearing. I could see her trying to stuff the child in the car and him crying.

I asked on MM1 where the line was in these situations? When does a person step in for the safety of the child? I was completely berated. I was told to mind my own business. To not be a busy body. To not go looking for drama. And my favorite, since I don't have kids, apparently I am not allowed to question the behavior of a parent.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Hit or spank?

And correcting a child, discipline, punishment, even raising your voice is NOT abuse.

Emotional abuse does exist.
flan

Are question marks like salt to you?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Divine Geek wrote:
I was at work one nice spring day with the door propped open. I hear a woman screaming at a child, who from my estimation was in the 3yo range (still in a car seat, which was what this lady was screaming about). They were probably 50 some yards away, and I could clearly hear the yelling and swearing. I could see her trying to stuff the child in the car and him crying.

I asked on MM1 where the line was in these situations? When does a person step in for the safety of the child? I was completely berated. I was told to mind my own business. To not be a busy body. To not go looking for drama. And my favorite, since I don't have kids, apparently I am not allowed to question the behavior of a parent.

I do not advocate swearing or even just yelling.

But a kid HAS to be in a car seat in a moving car. PERIOD.

Whats a parent supposed to do? Wait till the kid wants to get in it?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Divine Geek wrote:
I was at work one nice spring day with the door propped open. I hear a woman screaming at a child, who from my estimation was in the 3yo range (still in a car seat, which was what this lady was screaming about). They were probably 50 some yards away, and I could clearly hear the yelling and swearing. I could see her trying to stuff the child in the car and him crying.

I asked on MM1 where the line was in these situations? When does a person step in for the safety of the child? I was completely berated. I was told to mind my own business. To not be a busy body. To not go looking for drama. And my favorite, since I don't have kids, apparently I am not allowed to question the behavior of a parent.

I would trust your gut on this kind of thing.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Divine Geek wrote:
I was at work one nice spring day with the door propped open. I hear a woman screaming at a child, who from my estimation was in the 3yo range (still in a car seat, which was what this lady was screaming about). They were probably 50 some yards away, and I could clearly hear the yelling and swearing. I could see her trying to stuff the child in the car and him crying.

I asked on MM1 where the line was in these situations? When does a person step in for the safety of the child? I was completely berated. I was told to mind my own business. To not be a busy body. To not go looking for drama. And my favorite, since I don't have kids, apparently I am not allowed to question the behavior of a parent.
I do not advocate swearing or even just yelling.
But a kid HAS to be in a car seat in a moving car. PERIOD.
Whats a parent supposed to do? Wait till the kid wants to get in it?

I never had to swear at my child. And, screaming doesn't work either. What are you supposed to do? Let them have their writhing hissy on the ground and stand by for a minute or two. Then, pick them up and put them in the car.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

My DD was an escape artist. She could get out of the car seat before I could get the car in motion. I once had to pull over on the highway because she had gotten out and climbed into the front seat.

I had altercations with her in the parking lot of several local stores that would probably horrify some of you. But I had to be harsh, really harsh, because she wouldn't listen to "honey please sit in your car seat or no snack later" or whatever. She just wouldn't listen to that. I am not embarrassed to tell you, I pulled her out of the car once and spanked her butt and put her forcibly back into the car seat telling her she was behaving badly and I was NOT happy. If you didn't know that she had climbed out of the car seat 3 times in a 2 mile drive to get lunch, you would probably think I was abusing her. But she would NOT listen. And every time she got out, her sister started to cry because she was afraid her sis would get hurt from being out. It was a nightmare. I am sure I looked like THAT woman.

That's why I say you just don't know what that kid has done that day. And trying to be gentle does not work on all kids. If it didn't hit home hard, DD didn't care. As a child she would weigh the consequences of something and choose to take the punishment if she really wanted something. That's when we decided the punishments had to dramatically increase. As an outsider, you would never know that.

Abuse exists. No doubt. But you cannot decide if you are seeing it by a small snapshot of time in a parking lot.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Yelling works on my kids. After I've told them 3 times - the 4th is VERY loud. And it works. They don't like me to yell. Although - I don't know that I've had to really yell in public much, if at all. It's usually at home when they are playing on the computer or watching TV or something and choosing not to pay attention to me.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.

Oh I screamed. Not ashamed of it either. When I put her back in the car seat, I was screaming/yelling whatever you want to call it. Sometimes, it's the only way they know you mean business. This child would literally choose the punishment in order to get what she wanted. She was defiant level 10 as a small child. As a teenager, she is actually easier than she was as a small child. Because she learned.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.

Yeah, and swearing at your child = loss of control.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.
Yeah, and swearing at your child = loss of control.
flan

Not me...LOL! But I cuss in everyday conversation. I have a HORRIBLE mouth...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Basically, some public busy-body cannot assume abuse because someone is yelling at their kid.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

And you know what? Parents aren't perfect. Sometimes we lose our cool. Sometimes the stress of life gets to you and you let it out and scream when you shouldn't have. When that happens though, it's important to recognize it, apologize, explain in the best most age appropriate way you can and move on with a vow to do better next time. But I reject the notion that a parent has to be perfect at every moment in the kids life. Sometimes you are going to make a mistake and it's important that you own up to it with your kids. They need to know that no one is perfect.

That being said, your momentary lapse should never include abuse of any kind.

Blankie · Guru

I like "you're all she has."

Blankie · Guru

And on the other hand, I know that appearances can be deceiving. And bystanders don't know the whole story.

My brother had his 3-year-old daughter in the supermarket once. She was tantrumming because he wouldn't let her get sweets. That little rascal started screaming "you're not my daddy!" He might have had an awful problem if some bystander had intervened. Luckily he got out of there before someone called the police.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.
Yeah, and swearing at your child = loss of control.
flan
Not me...LOL! But I cuss in everyday conversation. I have a HORRIBLE mouth...

Oh, I cuss a LOT...but not around kids or one dear friend of mine.

flan

p.s. That means we're tacky? Trashy? Probably both.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is a difference between talking loudly and firmly and screaming at your kid. I have seen raised voices sternly telling a kid what to do. And, I have seen screaming idiots. Two different things.
Yeah, and swearing at your child = loss of control.
flan
Not me...LOL! But I cuss in everyday conversation. I have a HORRIBLE mouth...
Oh, I cuss a LOT...but not around kids or one dear friend of mine.
flan
p.s. That means we're tacky? Trashy? Probably both.

People have told me that they don't even realize how bad my mouth is. Honestly, it's fluid for me. I make it sound like normal conversation...

NOT something I'm proud of.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Blankie wrote:
And on the other hand, I know that appearances can be deceiving. And bystanders don't know the whole story.
My brother had his 3-year-old daughter in the supermarket once. She was tantrumming because he wouldn't let her get sweets. That little rascal started screaming "you're not my daddy!" He might have had an awful problem if some bystander had intervened. Luckily he got out of there before someone called the police.

My friend's daughter was a very head strong child. They were in the mall & she wouldn't stay with him so he tried to pick her up & she threw herself down on the floor kicking & screaming "don't break my leg again daddy". She had never had a broken bone but that had him worried that someone would call child services.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lexxy wrote:
Blankie wrote:
And on the other hand, I know that appearances can be deceiving. And bystanders don't know the whole story.
My brother had his 3-year-old daughter in the supermarket once. She was tantrumming because he wouldn't let her get sweets. That little rascal started screaming "you're not my daddy!" He might have had an awful problem if some bystander had intervened. Luckily he got out of there before someone called the police.
My friend's daughter was a very head strong child. They were in the mall & she wouldn't stay with him so he tried to pick her up & she threw herself down on the floor kicking & screaming "don't break my leg again daddy". She had never had a broken bone but that had him worried that someone would call child services.

2 excellent reasons not to assume that the snippet of time you see someone in public is a true representation of their life.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Blankie wrote:
And on the other hand, I know that appearances can be deceiving. And bystanders don't know the whole story.
My brother had his 3-year-old daughter in the supermarket once. She was tantrumming because he wouldn't let her get sweets. That little rascal started screaming "you're not my daddy!" He might have had an awful problem if some bystander had intervened. Luckily he got out of there before someone called the police.
My friend's daughter was a very head strong child. They were in the mall & she wouldn't stay with him so he tried to pick her up & she threw herself down on the floor kicking & screaming "don't break my leg again daddy". She had never had a broken bone but that had him worried that someone would call child services.
2 excellent reasons not to assume that the snippet of time you see someone in public is a true representation of their life.

I agree, but sometimes parents & children are here for an hour, maybe two, so that's a bit longer.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

To me, that's still a snippet of time. It's a few hours out of one day. It isn't a pattern unless they are like that every time they come in.

I have had bad days as a mother. And I am not sorry about it, I am sorry if I took it out on the kids, but not sorry I had a bad day. We all have bad days and you are not exempt from having a bad day just because you have children. Actually you are MORE prone to have one of anything. I won't condemn someone for having a bad day.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
To me, that's still a snippet of time. It's a few hours out of one day. It isn't a pattern unless they are like that every time they come in.

I have had bad days as a mother. And I am not sorry about it, I am sorry if I took it out on the kids, but not sorry I had a bad day. We all have bad days and you are not exempt from having a bad day just because you have children. Actually you are MORE prone to have one of anything. I won't condemn someone for having a bad day.

Yeah, we do have those as well. We try to distance ourselves. Sometimes it's hard.

flan