TOTALLY GEEKED!

MM, I am so glad you're here.

flan

It's easy to pontificate about things. We all do it. What's much more difficult is to spend time with people to really learn and understand their struggles without judging them. Try to understand why they are where they are. We called it "seek to understand" at work. Don't yell at someone for doing something wrong, seek to understand why they did it wrong and then correct it.

I had women who lived in circumstances most of us couldn't tolerate for a week, let alone a lifetime. They were trying to improve themselves, trying to raise their kids to do better. But it's hard to get to work when your mom steals your car to go pick up drugs. And when your babysitter gets shot on the way to your house to watch your kids, you will be late for work. And when the power is turned off because the money you left your boyfriend for the light bill went to weed, you might have to wear dirty clothes. Yes, she should "get out". But that's tough when you don't have any money. Or when the money you do have is enough to get the necessitates and not enough for a deposit on a new place. So you save a bit here and there and get out eventually - but it doesn't happen overnight.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

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 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

---

 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

---

 It's because the teachers are so busy babysitting that they can't teach.  I'm AWARE of that.  It is still the fault of the parent's raising these children.  That's the problem - it's not the kids' fault, it is the parents, but AT SOME POINT, those kids are not kids anymore and they should want BETTER for their own children.  They should TRY, not just accept the cycle.  You act like they are too stupid to learn - and I don't believe that, but they have to WANT to. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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It's easy to pontificate about things. We all do it. What's much more difficult is to spend time with people to really learn and understand their struggles without judging them. Try to understand why they are where they are. We called it "seek to understand" at work. Don't yell at someone for doing something wrong, seek to understand why they did it wrong and then correct it.

I had women who lived in circumstances most of us couldn't tolerate for a week, let alone a lifetime. They were trying to improve themselves, trying to raise their kids to do better. But it's hard to get to work when your mom steals your car to go pick up drugs. And when your babysitter gets shot on the way to your house to watch your kids, you will be late for work. And when the power is turned off because the money you left your boyfriend for the light bill went to weed, you might have to wear dirty clothes. Yes, she should "get out". But that's tough when you don't have any money. Or when the money you do have is enough to get the necessitates and not enough for a deposit on a new place. So you save a bit here and there and get out eventually - but it doesn't happen overnight.

---

Those stories do not apply to everyone. 

And I don't have to spend time with poor children of addicted parents to understand them - I was one of them.  Which is why I KNOW it's possible to break the cycle.  You just have to work hard at it.

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 Naah LL. You're supposed to wallow in your problems and let them rule your whole life. I think you did it wrong (sarcasm).

 

Making excuses for people is not helping them you're just perpetuating their victimhood.

Mellow Momma wrote:

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It is possible. But it's a lot harder when your name is DeShawn. When your application is thrown out because your name sounds black - which has been proven to happen even when DeShawn is more qualified.

No those stories don't apply to everyone. But they apply to a LOT of people. A lot more than I realized until I worked hard to get to know my staff and understand them. A lot of these kids have never had a single person, not a family member nor a teacher ever say "you can". No one. I bet someone believed in you LL. I would have! Well these kids don't have that.

I am not saying there is an excuse for every single person living in these circumstances. I am saying the problems are much more varied and complex than we could ever imagine. Saying they are all idiots is not solving anything. These kids needs more than that.

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MM, I think you need to find a brick wall & beat your head against it.

Same results. 

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

---

 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

---

 It's because the teachers are so busy babysitting that they can't teach.  I'm AWARE of that.  It is still the fault of the parent's raising these children.  That's the problem - it's not the kids' fault, it is the parents, but AT SOME POINT, those kids are not kids anymore and they should want BETTER for their own children.  They should TRY, not just accept the cycle.  You act like they are too stupid to learn - and I don't believe that, but they have to WANT to. 

---

 When did I ever say they are too stupid to learn? Wow. Nothing I posted reflects that. They can learn. You just need to connect with them and teach them what they need to know and show them how it will benefit them. Just like any other kid. But you can't write them off and think they are idiots or they will never learn. 

Mellow Momma wrote:

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It is possible. But it's a lot harder when your name is DeShawn. When your application is thrown out because your name sounds black - which has been proven to happen even when DeShawn is more qualified.

No those stories don't apply to everyone. But they apply to a LOT of people. A lot more than I realized until I worked hard to get to know my staff and understand them. A lot of these kids have never had a single person, not a family member nor a teacher ever say "you can". No one. I bet someone believed in you LL. I would have! Well these kids don't have that.

I am not saying there is an excuse for every single person living in these circumstances. I am saying the problems are much more varied and complex than we could ever imagine. Saying they are all idiots is not solving anything. These kids needs more than that.

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 Yes, they are varied and complex - but at some point, people need to help themselves.  And no one is saying the KIDS are idiots. 

Tinydancer wrote:

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Ok so that's one out of thousands but we're supposed to feel bad for all of the unwashed, even those with access to water.

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 You know they have access to water how? And is it safe to bathe there without creepy step dad watching you shower While he jerks off?

You are using scenarios you don't know are true either. If you're looking for a job, take a bath even if you have to use cold water.

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

---

 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

---

 It's because the teachers are so busy babysitting that they can't teach.  I'm AWARE of that.  It is still the fault of the parent's raising these children.  That's the problem - it's not the kids' fault, it is the parents, but AT SOME POINT, those kids are not kids anymore and they should want BETTER for their own children.  They should TRY, not just accept the cycle.  You act like they are too stupid to learn - and I don't believe that, but they have to WANT to. 

---

 When did I ever say they are too stupid to learn? Wow. Nothing I posted reflects that. They can learn. You just need to connect with them and teach them what they need to know and show them how it will benefit them. Just like any other kid. But you can't write them off and think they are idiots or they will never learn. 

---

 Everything you have posted is why they don't know any better.  That the cycle they are born in is the only thing available to learn from.  School is a waste of time.  Every reason I've given where they have the opportunity to learn - you have shot down, whether it's school, employee training, etc. 

My point is that the parents have the responsiblity to teach their children.  Every generation should be striving to improve, not treading water.  Parents learn the hard way and then they teach their children.  But here, all we are getting are excuses why the parents can't learn. 

I'm talking about the ADULTS who should have grown through experience.  They do NOT live in a bubble where the outside world has no influence.

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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Ok so that's one out of thousands but we're supposed to feel bad for all of the unwashed, even those with access to water.

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 You know they have access to water how? And is it safe to bathe there without creepy step dad watching you shower While he jerks off?

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 The same way you know they don't or that there's a creepy stepdad looking on...lol

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 I think it's easy to assume everyone has a safe place to shower with access to hot water. Some can manage it for an interview. It's much more difficult to manage on a daily basis. 

I know because I took the time to get to know the people in an underserved socio economically diverse area before I judged them. They trusted me and they told me things they were too embarrassed to tell anyone else. 

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 Which is more than other Geeks did.

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

---

 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

---

 It's because the teachers are so busy babysitting that they can't teach.  I'm AWARE of that.  It is still the fault of the parent's raising these children.  That's the problem - it's not the kids' fault, it is the parents, but AT SOME POINT, those kids are not kids anymore and they should want BETTER for their own children.  They should TRY, not just accept the cycle.  You act like they are too stupid to learn - and I don't believe that, but they have to WANT to. 

---

 When did I ever say they are too stupid to learn? Wow. Nothing I posted reflects that. They can learn. You just need to connect with them and teach them what they need to know and show them how it will benefit them. Just like any other kid. But you can't write them off and think they are idiots or they will never learn. 

---

 Everything you have posted is why they don't know any better.  That the cycle they are born in is the only thing available to learn from.  School is a waste of time.  Every reason I've given where they have the opportunity to learn - you have shot down, whether it's school, employee training, etc. 

My point is that the parents have the responsiblity to teach their children.  Every generation should be striving to improve, not treading water.  Parents learn the hard way and then they teach their children.  But here, all we are getting are excuses why the parents can't learn. 

I'm talking about the ADULTS who should have grown through experience.  They do NOT live in a bubble where the outside world has no influence.

---

 Parents do have a responsibility to teach their children. Some don't though. And some teach the opposite lessons - don't go to work, it's a waste of time, you will earn more on welfare. These kids witn crappy parents who don't teach the, become crappy parents who don't teach their kids...and on and on. Yes they should. But they don't sometimes. Then what? 

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Wow, the number of excuses people can come up with for people not being able to learn the basic things to get by in society. Cultural differences? Learn what is expected in the society you live in.

People in this country are given more opportunities than anywhere else in the world. They are given free education, free medical care, free food, free housing, free cell phones, free job training, and yet people STILL make constant excuses for why they can't take advantage of what is available to help them.

Sometimes it IS because they are drug addicts, or lazy, or criminals. And it is OK to say that instead of constantly making excuses for them.

---

 Free education -- would you send your child to an inner city school? Why not? It's a free education. 

It's not an education they are provided. It's babysitting. I have volunteered there. I have seen it. 

---

 It's because the teachers are so busy babysitting that they can't teach.  I'm AWARE of that.  It is still the fault of the parent's raising these children.  That's the problem - it's not the kids' fault, it is the parents, but AT SOME POINT, those kids are not kids anymore and they should want BETTER for their own children.  They should TRY, not just accept the cycle.  You act like they are too stupid to learn - and I don't believe that, but they have to WANT to. 

---

 When did I ever say they are too stupid to learn? Wow. Nothing I posted reflects that. They can learn. You just need to connect with them and teach them what they need to know and show them how it will benefit them. Just like any other kid. But you can't write them off and think they are idiots or they will never learn. 

---

 Everything you have posted is why they don't know any better.  That the cycle they are born in is the only thing available to learn from.  School is a waste of time.  Every reason I've given where they have the opportunity to learn - you have shot down, whether it's school, employee training, etc. 

My point is that the parents have the responsiblity to teach their children.  Every generation should be striving to improve, not treading water.  Parents learn the hard way and then they teach their children.  But here, all we are getting are excuses why the parents can't learn. 

I'm talking about the ADULTS who should have grown through experience.  They do NOT live in a bubble where the outside world has no influence.

---

 Parents do have a responsibility to teach their children. Some don't though. And some teach the opposite lessons - don't go to work, it's a waste of time, you will earn more on welfare. These kids witn crappy parents who don't teach the, become crappy parents who don't teach their kids...and on and on. Yes they should. But they don't sometimes. Then what? 

---

 And those parents are the ones that are lacking in personal resposibilty are are to blame for failing to raise and teach their children. 

Now what?  Well, that's the question, isn't it.  But continuing to give those parents a pass "because they don't know better" hasn't worked up to now, so it's time to try something new.

Nope. That's all yours.

flan

I think everyone has valued points, My friend works with such children and they do come from crappy homes, I can't even believe what kind of people would treat their own kids that way. I sometimes think public shaming the parents should be done except the kids don't deserve that.

We are trying to help a low income mother about life choices financially but it is like banging your head against the wall. It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves and won't take responsibility for her problems and even blames her kids.

I've read my signature thank you very much but for you to pretend you're one thing while doing the exact opposite to me makes you a hypocrite.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I am really starting to hate this board.

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I like the board. 

I don't like that some people choose to create and nurture anger and insults and silly, nasty arguments.

But if that's what they do to make themselves feel superior, who am I to judge?

flan327 wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I am really starting to hate this board.

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Preachin' to the choir.

flan 

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 Nobody makes you post here.

huskerbb wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Someone who doesn't bathe - may not be able to because they don't have hot water at home, or they do t want to be naked in their house because they don't trust mom's boyfriend, or they were thrown out of the house because grandma is on a bender agin, or because they live in their car while their brother is out of jail because he is an addict...very very rarely is it because they enjoy being dirty.

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 Not having hot water is no excuse.  Take a cold shower.

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You seem to assume that there IS a shower. And running water.  And that it's safe to be naked.

ed, you've got a dark perspective for sure--kids that need soap or hot water or clean clothes are a long way from those who are in physical danger--kudos to this teacher for trying at least--as the saying goes " it takes a village to raise a child. "--however you look at the picture, these are little children with a long future ahead in this country--if these letters are genuine, many of them are cries for help and it is our responsibility to respond

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I am really starting to hate this board.

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Preachin' to the choir.

flan 

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 Nobody makes you post here.

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I do.  I twist her arm daily until she screams Soooeeeyyy!   

Lindley wrote:

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I think everyone has valued points, My friend works with such children and they do come from crappy homes, I can't even believe what kind of people would treat their own kids that way. I sometimes think public shaming the parents should be done except the kids don't deserve that.

We are trying to help a low income mother about life choices financially but it is like banging your head against the wall. It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves and won't take responsibility for her problems and even blames her kids.

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You simply cannot help people who won't help themselves.  And, honestly, you have to allow people to feel the consequences of their choices instead of rescuing them.  How else will they learn? 

ed11563 wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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 ed you seem to think that every household has a predator just waiting to get their hands on the kids. That's a pretty warped view of family life. I know it happens but you see every single thing as somehow a preview to molestation. Why does your mind automatically go there? It's creepy and weird that you see it EVERYWHERE.

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Just compensating for the people who walk around with blinders on. 

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 I don't have blinders on. It happens and we all know it happens but you see it everywhere and everyone is a pedophile to you. Most people are NOT pedophiles and for you to make every thread about it is creepy and weird.