TOTALLY GEEKED!

NAOW · Vette's SS

RE: Lesbian Couple Accuses Christian Bakers of ‘Mental Rape,’ Awarded $135,000

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan

Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan

They are in PORTLAND. That's not a small city. And this bakery wasn't even on the top 10 list of best bakeries/wedding cakes in Portland!

They were targeted. And you know it...

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I always hear maybe it was the only/best bakery in town excuse. I live in a very small suburb. TINY. And I know of three bakeries in town. Now if you go downtown there's probably a hundred. And if you include the surrounding areas there are probably hundreds!

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan
Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?

This! Why would you want the wedding tainted with ill feelings?

Ohfour · Hooker

Lexxy wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan
Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?
This! Why would you want the wedding tainted with ill feelings?

Well, they got their wedding paid for didn't they? And their honeymoon, and probably a nice down payment on a house...That's all this was. A money grab.

Lindley · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan
Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?
This! Why would you want the wedding tainted with ill feelings?
Well, they got their wedding paid for didn't they? And their honeymoon, and probably a nice down payment on a house...That's all this was. A money grab.

And their name in the news and message boards

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Ohfour wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan
Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?
This! Why would you want the wedding tainted with ill feelings?
Well, they got their wedding paid for didn't they? And their honeymoon, and probably a nice down payment on a house...That's all this was. A money grab.

Yeah the new American way! It really is disgusting.

ed11563 · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan
Maybe if they were forced to make the cake they'd do a crappy job or spit in it or something. What's the point of forcing someone to do that for you? Shouldn't you want people wishing you well for your wedding rather than wishing you ill and finding a way to ruin it for you?
This! Why would you want the wedding tainted with ill feelings?
Well, they got their wedding paid for didn't they? And their honeymoon, and probably a nice down payment on a house...That's all this was. A money grab.
Yeah the new American way! It really is disgusting.

Their claims are absurd. I could see awarding them $1 in punitive damages and $0.01 in actual damages.

I hope they get it tossed out on appeal.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
burns07 wrote:

what an insult to the genuine victims of rape--these two women are despicable--they have no honor, zero and they have no tolerance, zero--there is no justification, none, for their homosexual lifestyle trumping the rights of ANY business owner for following their own conscience in the operation of their business

utter BS and hope the owners appeal this case to a higher court--what a disgrace in a country founded on the principles of freedom and following your own conscience--we should all be ashamed

This. Especially the bolded.
Mentally raped, my ass. If being told 'no' makes you feel so violated, you need to buck up and grow up. And, claiming both loss of appetite and weight gain? Laughable.
Those adult children must feel so good about themselves knowing that their actions are causing hardship to another person.
I agree that the lawsuit is frivolous, but all the bakery had to do was...wait for it...bake a cake.
flan

And all they had to do was take their business elsewhere.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Yes, we have discussed this to death. Was there another bakery nearby? Maybe this particular bakery had the best cakes in town.

flan

Yes, there was. No, they dont. That is an absurd argument.

Whenitrains · Member

A Colorado bakery is being sued because they won't put an anti-gay message on a cake. Where will it stop? :(

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Whenitrains wrote:
A Colorado bakery is being sued because they won't put an anti-gay message on a cake. Where will it stop? :(

That was done to prove a point after Colorado ruled against a Christian.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I agree that the lawsuit is frivolous, but all the bakery had to do was...wait for it...bake a cake. - flan

______________________

I agree with this. The lawsuit is somewhat frivolous, but there is also some merit in it. They were discriminated against. But their list of "symptoms and distress" is almost laughable in some aspects. The Bible has no prohibition against baking cakes. It does have a prohibition against violating the laws of man though. Maybe they should have just baked the cake.

If I were a baker, I'd have no problem baking a gay wedding cake. It's perfectly in line with my beliefs of loving each other, just as Jesus commanded.

WYSIWYG · Guru

A Colorado bakery is being sued because they won't put an anti-gay message on a cake. Where will it stop? :( - Whenitrains
-------------
That was done to prove a point after Colorado ruled against a Christian. - Lawyerlady

________________________

It's a flawed attempt at a point though, don't you think?

Gay marriage is legal there and sexuality is a protected class. Hate speech, however, is not a protected class nor does it have any legal protection of any kind, and the distinction of something being "hate" can actually be used to increase the penalty in a crime.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that the lawsuit is frivolous, but all the bakery had to do was...wait for it...bake a cake. - flan

______________________

I agree with this. The lawsuit is somewhat frivolous, but there is also some merit in it. They were discriminated against. But their list of "symptoms and distress" is almost laughable in some aspects. The Bible has no prohibition against baking cakes. It does have a prohibition against violating the laws of man though. Maybe they should have just baked the cake.

If I were a baker, I'd have no problem baking a gay wedding cake. It's perfectly in line with my beliefs of loving each other, just as Jesus commanded.

Jesus commanded people to turn away from their sin:

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Mat 4:17

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3

He also commands us to NOT lead others to sin:

⁶“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. ⁷Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! ⁸If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. ⁹And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. (Matthew 18:6-9).

"Then He said to the disciples, 'It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones" (Luke 17:1-3).

Finally, he commands his followers to confront sin:

¹⁵“If your brother or sister^[b] sins,^[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. ¹⁶But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’^[d] ¹⁷If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

¹⁸“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be^[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be^[f] loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:15-18

Yes, God commands us to love one another, but it doesn't end there. Loving includes getting people to repent of their sin and come to the knowledge of Christ.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

WYSIWYG wrote:
A Colorado bakery is being sued because they won't put an anti-gay message on a cake. Where will it stop? :( - Whenitrains
-------------
That was done to prove a point after Colorado ruled against a Christian. - Lawyerlady

________________________

It's a flawed attempt at a point though, don't you think?

Gay marriage is legal there and sexuality is a protected class. Hate speech, however, is not a protected class nor does it have any legal protection of any kind, and the distinction of something being "hate" can actually be used to increase the penalty in a crime.

It is NOT hate to refuse to help celebrate someone else's sin. You get so stuck on that and it is where you are completely and utterly wrong.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I'm not going to quote all that, huskerbb.

Suffice it to say we already hashed that out on another thread. Christians are allowed to participate in pagan ceremonies as long as they don't eat of anything used in sacrifice. And tax collectors deserve respect too.

WYSIWYG · Guru

It is NOT hate to refuse to help celebrate someone else's sin. You get so stuck on that and it is where you are completely and utterly wrong. - Lawyerlady

_______________________

I believe you are confusing the issues.

The hate I was referring to is the hate speech that the one bakery refused to put on a cake (they did agree to give the person icing and a decorating bag and let him do it himself though).

I don't believe I ever said it was hate to refuse to provide a service you provide everyone else. I say that's discrimination. And in Colorado it's illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

I will say that discrimination isn't exactly showing love though, and while I believe that the opposite of love is hate, I also believe that the absence of love isn't, it's indifference.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The point of Free Speech is to protect speech that someone might find offensive. Otherwise, what is the point of Free Speech if everyone agrees, then we really need that right do we?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Is it "hate speech" to say that homosexuality is a sin? That if you engage in that you are sinning and God hates sin? Is that Hate Speech? Honestly, I really don't want to live in an America that policies people's speech. We used to just say as kids "Sticks and stones may break our bones but names will never hurt us". Funny how that has changed. And, the mere idea that someone does not rah, rah every choice you make in life now makes people crumble.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Love does not mean allowing people to wallow in their sin and say nothing to them. Love is not letting people continue on a path of self-destruction and eternal separation from God.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Love does not mean allowing people to wallow in their sin and say nothing to them. Love is not letting people continue on a path of self-destruction and eternal separation from God.

Which is what YOU believe...

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Love does not mean allowing people to wallow in their sin and say nothing to them. Love is not letting people continue on a path of self-destruction and eternal separation from God.
Which is what YOU believe...
flan

Which is what I have every RIGHT to believe.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I have no control over another. What they do is on them.

I do have control over me and what I do is on me.

If I feel that something is against what I believe, then I should have the right to refuse doing it.

Doesn't even matter the reason really.

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.

I reckon that baking a cake with a plastic gun inside for someone to sneak into jail, would be aiding and abetting.

Actually Lily, I see your point.

The opposing scenario takes me back to Germany in the 1930's, when Jews had problems like the Gays have here ... and had through most of the 20th Century.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:38:04 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.
I reckon that baking a cake with a plastic gun inside for someone to sneak into jail, would be aiding and abetting.

Actually Lily, I see your point.
The opposing scenario takes me back to Germany in the 1930's, when Jews had problems like the Gays have here ... and had through most of the 20th Century.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:38:04 AM

Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.
I reckon that baking a cake with a plastic gun inside for someone to sneak into jail, would be aiding and abetting.

Actually Lily, I see your point.
The opposing scenario takes me back to Germany in the 1930's, when Jews had problems like the Gays have here ... and had through most of the 20th Century.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:38:04 AM
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Not legally, though.

flan

ed11563 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Is getting married the same as having sex? People don't wait for marriage any more. So is baking a wedding cake really condoning people having sex?

Is baking me a birthday cake the same as celebrating me getting older? I get older with or without a cake. And people either have sex or they don't.

Still, I think people should go where they're wanted. There probably ARE plenty of bakery owners who just want the business and would do a great job.

By comparison (since I brought it up), to a large extent, the Jews in the United States dealt with much of the discrimination problem

by opening their own businesses, buying property and becoming landlords, and by becoming excellent doctors, lawyers and accountants, to the extent

that a LOT of non-Jews count on Jews to help maintain and improve their lives.

But don't think for a second that there is no longer discrimination and prejudice against Jews in this country.

Tinydancer · Guru

Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Not legally, though.

flan

So what? Spiritually it's the same thing but I guess only what you're passionate about is important enough to get some rights.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:54:56 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Is getting married the same as having sex? People don't wait for marriage any more. So is baking a wedding cake really condoning people having sex?

Is baking me a birthday cake the same as celebrating me getting older? I get older with or without a cake. And people either have sex or they don't.

Still, I think people should go where they're wanted. There probably ARE plenty of bakery owners who just want the business and would do a great job.
By comparison (since I brought it up), to a large extent, the Jews in the United States dealt with much of the discrimination problem
by opening their own businesses, buying property and becoming landlords, and by becoming excellent doctors, lawyers and accountants, to the extent
that a LOT of non-Jews count on Jews to help maintain and improve their lives.

But don't think for a second that there is no longer discrimination and prejudice against Jews in this country.

ed - being a Jew is not the same as engaging in homosexuality. And yes, there is still discrimination against Jews, and it's not going to get better now because religious discrimination and persecution is becoming MORE acceptable, not less.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.
I reckon that baking a cake with a plastic gun inside for someone to sneak into jail, would be aiding and abetting.

Actually Lily, I see your point.
The opposing scenario takes me back to Germany in the 1930's, when Jews had problems like the Gays have here ... and had through most of the 20th Century.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:38:04 AM
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Not legally, though.
flan

So???? I care a whole lot more about God's law than man's. God says it's a sin. Unnatural. He leveled Sodom and Gamorrah because of such behavior. You don't have to believe it, but you can't tell me I can't. I don't pick and choose what to believe based upon what I LIKE.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And the whole "marriage does not mean sex" argument is absurd unless you are entering into a fraudulent marraige for some other purpose - and that's wrong on an entirely different level.

Just because your marriage is sexless does not mean that is even remotely close to normal. And ed, since you have two children - I'd say it was not always that way, either.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
And the whole "marriage does not mean sex" argument is absurd unless you are entering into a fraudulent marraige for some other purpose - and that's wrong on an entirely different level.

Just because your marriage is sexless does not mean that is even remotely close to normal. And ed, since you have two children - I'd say it was not always that way, either.

I was just about to post this! He certainly went into marriage expecting to have sex. There are very VERY few people that do so. I'm thinking people that have some sort of physical disability. And that's so rare that it doesn't even matter...

Tinydancer · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And the whole "marriage does not mean sex" argument is absurd unless you are entering into a fraudulent marraige for some other purpose - and that's wrong on an entirely different level.

Just because your marriage is sexless does not mean that is even remotely close to normal. And ed, since you have two children - I'd say it was not always that way, either.
I was just about to post this! He certainly went into marriage expecting to have sex. There are very VERY few people that do so. I'm thinking people that have some sort of physical disability. And that's so rare that it doesn't even matter...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

How does baking a cake equate to sin? The same way helping a criminal equates to aiding and abetting.
I reckon that baking a cake with a plastic gun inside for someone to sneak into jail, would be aiding and abetting.

Actually Lily, I see your point.
The opposing scenario takes me back to Germany in the 1930's, when Jews had problems like the Gays have here ... and had through most of the 20th Century.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Thursday 30th of April 2015 09:38:04 AM
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Not legally, though.
flan

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

Know that story?

It was the law to bow down tNebuchacnznezzer but they refused. Because it would be putting that earthly king in front t of their Heavenly father.

We are compelled to follow the law of man up until it means committing a sin.

burns07 · Guru

well, if we were radical muslims, we could just kill homosexuals--definitely in accordance with our religioous / spiritual tenets -- legally though, still murder

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

They ARE killing homosexuals. But, curiously, the Left is far more concerned about cakes being baked. Go figure.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Because wedding cake is the be all and end all of the gay movement. Yet strangely enough it holds no symbolism and is no different than a slice of pizza or a hot dog.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I'd like some cake....

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Wedding cake usually sucks. I have no idea why so many people pick POUND CAKE as their wedding cake. Blech. My cake was wonderful - 2 tiers of chocolate raspberry and 1 tier of vanilla almond. And btw - baked by a very nice and talented homosexual man. His boyfriend did my hair.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I had a carrot, a lemon and something else as my layers.

The grooms cake was chocolate.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Love does not mean allowing people to wallow in their sin and say nothing to them. Love is not letting people continue on a path of self-destruction and eternal separation from God. - Lawyerlady

________________________

I agree that it doesn't mean allowing people wallow in their sin. What it does mean is showing compassion for them when they give in to the drives and desires that God gave them. The same compassion you would show to someone that fornicated before marriage, or someone that had a bad first marriage that wasn't broken up due to adultery, but doesn't want to be alone the rest of their life, so dates and remarries.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Which is what I have every RIGHT to believe. - Lawyerlady

_____________________

Yes. You do have that right. What you don't have is the right to force that belief onto others.

WYSIWYG · Guru

ed - being a Jew is not the same as engaging in homosexuality. And yes, there is still discrimination against Jews, and it's not going to get better now because religious discrimination and persecution is becoming MORE acceptable, not less. - Lawyerlady

______________________

It's not religious discrimination to no longer allow the religious to discriminate.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I love how some people selectively read the Bible.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I love how some people selectively read the Bible. - Nobody Just Nobody

________________________________

I do too!

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

The Bible states homosexuality is a sin. You keep ignoring that part of it. You also say it's discrimination because gay marriage is legal so the Bible says Christians need to follow man's law. What you keep conveniently leaving out of it is that God says follow man's law unless it goes against God's law. Then you are to follow God's law. Not man's. I'm sure you'll post some vague Bible verses that leave parts of the Bible out. But the reality is all throughout the Bible Jesus DID walk with sinners. He also told them, SIN NO MORE. He did not wallow in the sin with them. He confronted them about the sin and told them not to do it. So I'm not sure what Bible you read.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Visiting with a wanted criminal without turning them in can make you an accessory guilty of aiding and abetting. Being part of a wedding that celebrates sin does the same thing.

Is getting married the same as having sex? People don't wait for marriage any more. So is baking a wedding cake really condoning people having sex?

Is baking me a birthday cake the same as celebrating me getting older? I get older with or without a cake. And people either have sex or they don't.

Still, I think people should go where they're wanted. There probably ARE plenty of bakery owners who just want the business and would do a great job.
By comparison (since I brought it up), to a large extent, the Jews in the United States dealt with much of the discrimination problem
by opening their own businesses, buying property and becoming landlords, and by becoming excellent doctors, lawyers and accountants, to the extent
that a LOT of non-Jews count on Jews to help maintain and improve their lives.

But don't think for a second that there is no longer discrimination and prejudice against Jews in this country.

The only people who give a flying rip about Jews or Israel are Christians. The reason this country even supports Israel is due to our Christian roots. The rest of the planet would happily destroy them.