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Post Info TOPIC: Sorry dude - dress code says no spaghetti straps.


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Sorry dude - dress code says no spaghetti straps.
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Dad Delivers Perfect Response to Kindergarten Dress-Shaming His Little Girl:            

Dad Delivers Perfect Response to Kindergarten Dress-Shaming His Little Girl: Read His Viral Letter
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Dad Delivers Perfect Response to Kindergarten Dress-Shaming His Little Girl: Read His Viral Letter

Move over, Kindergarten Cop! A Houston dad, Jef Rouner, called out his 5-year-old daughter's school district after her kindergarten class shamed the little girl for wearing a spaghetti-strap dress.

Rouner vented his frustration at the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District in a blog post written for the Houston Press, which has gone viral after it was published on April 22. The dad recalled how his daughter had her heart set on wearing a "rainbow sun dress" as the spring weather kicked in.

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"I finally acquiesced and let her," he wrote. "Still it wasn't too surprising to me to see her walk out of school that afternoon with her T-shirt on over the dress and her jeans on under it."

It was their exchange that shocked him. "'Did you get cold, sweetheart?' I asked her," he wrote. "'No,' she said a little crestfallen. 'I had to change because spaghetti straps are against the rules.'"

"I'm not surprised to see the dress code shaming come into my house," Rouner wrote. "I didn't think, though that it would make an appearance when she was five years old. Five. You get me? She's five. Cut her hair and put her next to a boy with no shirt on and she is fundamentally identical. I guess you could argue that a boy would not be allowed to wear a shirt with spaghetti straps either, but the day they sell anything like that in the boys section of a Target I will happily withdraw my objections."

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Rouner called out the double standards between boy and girl dress codes at his daughter's school district. "I mean prohibitions against exposing the chest or torso could hypothetically apply to boys except that they don't. Not really. They don't sell boys clothes that do that," he wrote. "There's nothing that is marketed to boys that is in anyway comparable to a skirt or a sun dress. Essentially, a school dress code exists to prevent girls from displaying too much of their bodies because reasons."

The dress' purpose was for comfort, according to Rouner. "It's a dress from a mall chain store in her size. It covers everything but her shoulders and a small section of her upper chest and back. She's worn it to church, and in the growing heat she was looking forward to wearing it a lot because it's light and comfortable," he wrote. "You know what really grills my cheese about it? It's not even the shirt they made her put on over her top, it's the pants they made her wear underneath. It's a full-length dress that she has to hold up to keep from getting wet in uncut grass."

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Making matters worse? "She even had a small set of shorts underneath because it was gym day. But because the top part of her dress apparently exposed the immoral sinfulness of her bare shoulders she also had to pull on jeans even though her legs remained completely covered as part of her punishment," he wrote.

Though rare, the issue does go both ways, he wrote, citing his own personal "battle for my long hair throughout middle and high school... There's literally no other possible reason to force a boy to cut his hair if he doesn't want to."

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He concluded his note with a threat — of sorts. "Part of me very much wants to go buy a nice dress for myself and drop her off at school in it for the rest of the year to prove a point," he wrote.

"In the meantime I think I'll employ the greatest weapon a five-year-old possesses; the question 'Why?' The next time the kid wants to wear her dress I'm going to let her, and I'm going to tell her that there's nothing wrong with it or her because she is dressed in a perfectly normal manner and cute as a button to boot. I'm going to tell her that some people think a girl who shows too much skin is wrong or dangerous, but that those people are, for want of a better term, lackwitted thugs living in a bad place. And if anyone tells her to change I'm going to advise her to ask why and to keep on asking that person 'Why?' until she gets an answer she likes."



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I find his attitude that because boys clothes don't have spaghetti straps this rule is sexist a bit absurd. Boys don't wear mini-skirts, either, so should girls gets to wear those, too?

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Although the jeans thing was ridiculous, I agree.

However, his attitude that he'll have her wear it again when he knows it is against dress code is wrong. When she gets sent home, it will be his fault.

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It is an absurd rule at that age but yeah Dad's attitude is wrong. And I didn't find his arguments very compelling.

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Lexxy wrote:

It is an absurd rule at that age but yeah Dad's attitude is wrong. And I didn't find his arguments very compelling.


 It's likely a rule across the board for all grades.  And that makes more sense than having special rules for different grades.



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I absolutely understand the reason behind no spaghetti straps, even at that age...especially that age. Kids play. Kids get their clothes grabbed at and stuck. Basic kids clothes (walmart, sears, kohls, target, etc) are not extremely well made.

Were the strap to be torn, the disruption just to deal with fixing the strap (and no, a safety pin will more than likely not work on a 5yo for long) is not something that the teachers and administrators need to be worrying about when it is SIMPLE ENOUGH to just ban them.

Just like most schools do not allow overalls because 5yo boys have a hard time getting those things on and off and helping a child take care of that is a time consumer for the teacher (taking her attention away from the class) and the child, (whose bladder may not be able to wait that long).

When did common sense get lost?

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Jumpsuits should be banned, too.

Our dress code says K-2 don't have to wear belts with uniforms - it makes it easier to go to the bathroom. And our dress code was updated to allow navy blue bottoms b/c of middle school girls - monthly accidents don't show as much.

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I'm kind of getting sick of this stuff. Posting pictures of their outfits and trying to shame the school for 'shaming' their kid when likely the outfit is fine, but part of it is against dress code. No spaghetti straps is a pretty common one, even when I was in school. They can't make special rules for each grade. Put a sweater on her or wear it on the weekends. She's not going to suffer by not getting to wear that particular dress at school.

Oh and as far as being sexist goes- boys are usually not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts at all. Girls can, just not spaghetti straps.

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I saw this article earlier this morning. I couldn't disagree more with the father. Sexist and body shaming? No. Not even close. It's a dress code. Build a bridge and get over it.

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Shaming? No.

More like adherence to the rules.

It's pretty much nation wide that spaghetti straps are not allowed.

I don't understand why this even has to be an issuse. A parent worth his salt would follow the school dress codes and make sure the kid did too.



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Ilumine wrote:

I absolutely understand the reason behind no spaghetti straps, even at that age...especially that age. Kids play. Kids get their clothes grabbed at and stuck. Basic kids clothes (walmart, sears, kohls, target, etc) are not extremely well made.

Were the strap to be torn, the disruption just to deal with fixing the strap (and no, a safety pin will more than likely not work on a 5yo for long) is not something that the teachers and administrators need to be worrying about when it is SIMPLE ENOUGH to just ban them.

Just like most schools do not allow overalls because 5yo boys have a hard time getting those things on and off and helping a child take care of that is a time consumer for the teacher (taking her attention away from the class) and the child, (whose bladder may not be able to wait that long).

When did common sense get lost?


 That is completely absurd.  That is NOT why they ban such clothing and you darn we'll know it.



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So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.

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huskerbb wrote:
Ilumine wrote:

I absolutely understand the reason behind no spaghetti straps, even at that age...especially that age. Kids play. Kids get their clothes grabbed at and stuck. Basic kids clothes (walmart, sears, kohls, target, etc) are not extremely well made.

Were the strap to be torn, the disruption just to deal with fixing the strap (and no, a safety pin will more than likely not work on a 5yo for long) is not something that the teachers and administrators need to be worrying about when it is SIMPLE ENOUGH to just ban them.

Just like most schools do not allow overalls because 5yo boys have a hard time getting those things on and off and helping a child take care of that is a time consumer for the teacher (taking her attention away from the class) and the child, (whose bladder may not be able to wait that long).

When did common sense get lost?


 That is completely absurd.  That is NOT why they ban such clothing and you darn we'll know it.


Actually that IS why they ban these clothes.  Though I also did not add that in the case of overalls there is the added issue of teachers getting accused of i"nnapropriate touching" if they were to help the child take the clothes on and off. 

I know this because my mother is a 50+ year kindergarten teacher and my father is a retired middle school teacher.  My Father was his school districts union representative when he retired and participated in the various negotiations between the teachers, the union and the schools.

 

But let's play...what is YOUR understanding of Great and Powerful OZ?  



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huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


Yep, how sad that the desire for wearing spaghetti straps or overalls is less important that the teachers' ability to maximize their day...the horror. 



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huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 



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Rules are what make us a civilized society.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  



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Ilumine wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  


 Oh, I agree.  I was speaking of rules in general. 



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lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 


I don't make stupid rules. 

 

However, in general, rules ARE NOT important just because they are rules.   There are all kinds of stupid rules on the books. 

 

Heck, it used to be a "rule" that women could not vote.  Did that make us a more "civilized" society?  Should we have blindly followed that rule until the end of civilization as we know it? 



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 4th of May 2015 08:20:49 PM

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Lawyerlady wrote:
Ilumine wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  


 Oh, I agree.  I was speaking of rules in general. 


Such as the rule that barred women from voting.  Got it.  That was apparently a good, important rule that should have been followed indefinitely and never changed.  After all, it was a "rule" and rules are important and can never be changed.  



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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 


I don't make stupid rules. 

 

However, in general, rules ARE NOT important just because they are rules.   There are all kinds of stupid rules on the books. 

 

Heck, it used to be a "rule" that women could not vote.  Did that make us a more "civilized" society?  Should we have blindly followed that rule until the end of civilization as we know it? 



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 4th of May 2015 08:20:49 PM


 Of course. What on earth was I thinking.

 

What a joke.

 



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The dress code was a known issue, he had no excuse.

There are other more successful (and whole lot less stressful on his daughter) ways to question/protest rules he doesn't agree with.

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huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ilumine wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  


 Oh, I agree.  I was speaking of rules in general. 


Such as the rule that barred women from voting.  Got it.  That was apparently a good, important rule that should have been followed indefinitely and never changed.  After all, it was a "rule" and rules are important and can never be changed.  


 And the rule was changed through civil action.  Not by morons just thinking they are above the rules and don't have to follow them.



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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 


I don't make stupid rules. 

 

However, in general, rules ARE NOT important just because they are rules.   There are all kinds of stupid rules on the books. 

 

Heck, it used to be a "rule" that women could not vote.  Did that make us a more "civilized" society?  Should we have blindly followed that rule until the end of civilization as we know it? 



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 4th of May 2015 08:20:49 PM


 So you think by bringing up women's voting rights will make me decide that all rules are therefore bad?  

And honestly, why do you get to be the arbitrator of good vs stupid rules?  Do you have ANY experience in managing children on a large scale basis?  Not just a large number of children with a large number/variety of issues over a long time period?  

Because while being all Libertarian like in theory is great...in theory.  But anarchy isn't the solution either.  Asking children to follow common sense uniform rules to keep the school day as even keel as possible so EVERYONE gets as much out of the day as possible is not "stupid".

But hey...if you and your "experiences" should come up with a better solution to potty breaks and clothing mishaps, then offer that up to your local school board.  Then let me know how that went. 



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Ilumine wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 


I don't make stupid rules. 

 

However, in general, rules ARE NOT important just because they are rules.   There are all kinds of stupid rules on the books. 

 

Heck, it used to be a "rule" that women could not vote.  Did that make us a more "civilized" society?  Should we have blindly followed that rule until the end of civilization as we know it? 



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 4th of May 2015 08:20:49 PM


 So you think by bringing up women's voting rights will make me decide that all rules are therefore bad?  

And honestly, why do you get to be the arbitrator of good vs stupid rules?  Do you have ANY experience in managing children on a large scale basis?  Not just a large number of children with a large number/variety of issues over a long time period?  

Because while being all Libertarian like in theory is great...in theory.  But anarchy isn't the solution either.  Asking children to follow common sense uniform rules to keep the school day as even keel as possible so EVERYONE gets as much out of the day as possible is not "stupid".

But hey...if you and your "experiences" should come up with a better solution to potty breaks and clothing mishaps, then offer that up to your local school board.  Then let me know how that went. 


Hey, YOU are the one who is preaching that "rules are rules" no matter what and should be followed.

I was a teacher for 7 years, so yes, I do, in fact, have the experience you describe. 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ilumine wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  


 Oh, I agree.  I was speaking of rules in general. 


Such as the rule that barred women from voting.  Got it.  That was apparently a good, important rule that should have been followed indefinitely and never changed.  After all, it was a "rule" and rules are important and can never be changed.  


 And the rule was changed through civil action.  Not by morons just thinking they are above the rules and don't have to follow them.


What kinds of civil action?  They didn't just sit passively by.  They tried to break the rules.  They staged sit-ins at polling places to disrupt the voting.  They deliberately tried to not follow the rules.  Are you saying they were morons?   



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huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ilumine wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Rules are what make us a civilized society.


 In this case, it isn't even about being civilized but being pragmatic.  


 Oh, I agree.  I was speaking of rules in general. 


Such as the rule that barred women from voting.  Got it.  That was apparently a good, important rule that should have been followed indefinitely and never changed.  After all, it was a "rule" and rules are important and can never be changed.  


 And the rule was changed through civil action.  Not by morons just thinking they are above the rules and don't have to follow them.


What kinds of civil action?  They didn't just sit passively by.  They tried to break the rules.  They staged sit-ins at polling places to disrupt the voting.  They deliberately tried to not follow the rules.  Are you saying they were morons?   


 Staging a sit in is civil action.  Did they dress up as men and try to vote that way?  That would be breaking the rules.  Picketing, sit-ins, rallys, etc. are not breaking rules - they are civil action to effect change.  People do it now.  We had a sit in at my college, people go on strike and picket.  They don't just disregard the rules and do it anyway.



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And "no spaghetti straps" is a rule basically across the board at any school I've ever heard of. This dad is an idiot.

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huskerbb wrote:
Ilumine wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So many posters talk about rules as if they are somehow important. Sad, really.


 So YOUR rules were not important? 

Some how I doubt you were ok with your rules being broken. 


I don't make stupid rules. 

 

However, in general, rules ARE NOT important just because they are rules.   There are all kinds of stupid rules on the books. 

 

Heck, it used to be a "rule" that women could not vote.  Did that make us a more "civilized" society?  Should we have blindly followed that rule until the end of civilization as we know it? 



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 4th of May 2015 08:20:49 PM


 So you think by bringing up women's voting rights will make me decide that all rules are therefore bad?  

And honestly, why do you get to be the arbitrator of good vs stupid rules?  Do you have ANY experience in managing children on a large scale basis?  Not just a large number of children with a large number/variety of issues over a long time period?  

Because while being all Libertarian like in theory is great...in theory.  But anarchy isn't the solution either.  Asking children to follow common sense uniform rules to keep the school day as even keel as possible so EVERYONE gets as much out of the day as possible is not "stupid".

But hey...if you and your "experiences" should come up with a better solution to potty breaks and clothing mishaps, then offer that up to your local school board.  Then let me know how that went. 


Hey, YOU are the one who is preaching that "rules are rules" no matter what and should be followed.

I was a teacher for 7 years, so yes, I do, in fact, have the experience you describe. 


 Have your reading comprehension skills lost since you stopped teaching?

Because I never once said that all rules must be followed, no matter what.  I specifically supported THIS school's uniform rule and gave the supporting reasons, to include another example of why there are rules regarding elementary school clothing rules, why.  

You are the one who made the generalization on all rules.  

And if you did teach for 7 years, are you honestly telling me that you would have not appreciated some common sense "RULES" that most parents don't think about because they only have to deal with one or two children during the day?  Given your numerous posts, I doubt it.  

But since you will never admit you were wrong, continuing this conversation is pointless.  



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