TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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They have taught her how to live. But her "God given free choice" has her making her own choices. What are they trying to achieve by boycotting this party? How far can a parent take this? Does age of reason not count for something in terms of accountability for ones own actions?

-- Edited by chillepeppa on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 03:30:08 PM

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 Yes, which is why the parents feel they shouldn't go. Some people have real conviction and will do what they must to follow their own conscience.

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That is their choice, I guess. Accepting their adult daughter's decisions does not mean agreeing with them. 

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 An an adult child needs to accept that her parents do not have to celebrate her decisions that they don't agree with.  You keep calling her an adult but don't hold her resposnible for anything.

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What do you mean? She is not mooching of her parents from what I can tell from the letter. It would appear apart from the whole fornicating aspect of her life, she has a very proud mama. Her mother is the one who is upset that daughter was upset that her parents declined to share a happy occasion in her life with her. If the daughter was the one to write the letter, this might have gone differently, indicating that she needed approval for her bad decisions. I cannot say that I don't live to get some approval from my parents, BUT, my primary considerations are DH and Little Man and they do not always coincide in the goals department. But my parents have NEVER not supported our familial decisions, even if they did not agree with them. They have never placed me in the position of having to choose between them and my family. 

chillepeppa wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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They have taught her how to live. But her "God given free choice" has her making her own choices. What are they trying to achieve by boycotting this party? How far can a parent take this? Does age of reason not count for something in terms of accountability for ones own actions?

-- Edited by chillepeppa on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 03:30:08 PM

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 Yes, which is why the parents feel they shouldn't go. Some people have real conviction and will do what they must to follow their own conscience.

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That is their choice, I guess. Accepting their adult daughter's decisions does not mean agreeing with them. 

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 An an adult child needs to accept that her parents do not have to celebrate her decisions that they don't agree with.  You keep calling her an adult but don't hold her resposnible for anything.

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What do you mean? She is not mooching of her parents from what I can tell from the letter. It would appear apart from the whole fornicating aspect of her life, she has a very proud mama. Her mother is the one who is upset that daughter was upset that her parents declined to share a happy occasion in her life with her. If the daughter was the one to write the letter, this might have gone differently, indicating that she needed approval for her bad decisions. I cannot say that I don't live to get some approval from my parents, BUT, my primary considerations are DH and Little Man and they do not always coincide in the goals department. But my parents have NEVER not supported our familial decisions, even if they did not agree with them. They have never placed me in the position of having to choose between them and my family. 

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 This is not her husband, this is her boyfriend.  That's the whole problem.  And no, boyfriends do NOT get the same consideration.

By not holding her responsible, why on earth should she even expect her parents to come to a homewarming party when she konws they don't approve of living together before marriage.  Being upset over it is ridiculous.  Basically she saying "I'll do what I want and I don't care what you think.  How dare you not celebrate my new home with my boyfriend."  She KNEW they didn't approve.  She should let it go when they say they are not coming to celebrate it.  That's what and ADULT would do.  An ADULT accepts the consequences of their actions, they don't get pissy because someone they knew didn't approve doesn't want to celebrate when you did it anyway.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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chillepeppa wrote:

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They have taught her how to live. But her "God given free choice" has her making her own choices. What are they trying to achieve by boycotting this party? How far can a parent take this? Does age of reason not count for something in terms of accountability for ones own actions?

-- Edited by chillepeppa on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 03:30:08 PM

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 Yes, which is why the parents feel they shouldn't go. Some people have real conviction and will do what they must to follow their own conscience.

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That is their choice, I guess. Accepting their adult daughter's decisions does not mean agreeing with them. 

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 An an adult child needs to accept that her parents do not have to celebrate her decisions that they don't agree with.  You keep calling her an adult but don't hold her resposnible for anything.

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What do you mean? She is not mooching of her parents from what I can tell from the letter. It would appear apart from the whole fornicating aspect of her life, she has a very proud mama. Her mother is the one who is upset that daughter was upset that her parents declined to share a happy occasion in her life with her. If the daughter was the one to write the letter, this might have gone differently, indicating that she needed approval for her bad decisions. I cannot say that I don't live to get some approval from my parents, BUT, my primary considerations are DH and Little Man and they do not always coincide in the goals department. But my parents have NEVER not supported our familial decisions, even if they did not agree with them. They have never placed me in the position of having to choose between them and my family. 

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 This is not her husband, this is her boyfriend.  That's the whole problem.  And no, boyfriends do NOT get the same consideration.

By not holding her responsible, why on earth should she even expect her parents to come to a homewarming party when she konws they don't approve of living together before marriage.  Being upset over it is ridiculous.  Basically she saying "I'll do what I want and I don't care what you think.  How dare you not celebrate my new home with my boyfriend."  She KNEW they didn't approve.  She should let it go when they say they are not coming to celebrate it.  That's what and ADULT would do.  An ADULT accepts the consequences of their actions, they don't get pissy because someone they knew didn't approve doesn't want to celebrate when you did it anyway.

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 Some people never marry but are together for 20, 30, 40 years. So they don't get the same consideration? That's a little ridiculous.

Obviously they are committed, just apparently not in the way that you approve of. Even the law recognizes common law marriages.

VetteGirl wrote:

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Obviously they are committed, just apparently not in the way that you approve of. Even the law recognizes common law marriages.

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Only a few states, and those are getting fewer and fewer.  Your state does not recognize common law. 

Well, how do you treat people with whom you disagree? Do you act snotty to them? Give them the cold shoulder? Ignore them? Continually tell them why they are wrong? Or what? If it was my daughter I would go to the party. The daughter is a grown woman. It is HER choice to make, not mom's. But, if you don't wish to go , then daughter also needs to allow mom to have space to disagree as well.

As I said earlier, DN and her b/f are moving in together next month. I'm not happy about it. But I also realize she's 28 and supports herself financially so there's nothing I can do about it. They aren't throwing a party when they move in but if they did we wouldn't go. And we wouldn't bring a gift. We go out of our way to buy her house things on special days like birthdays and Christmas. We don't shun her. We like her b/f okay enough. He's not bad. He doesn't have a lot of ambition but other than that he's fine. They're both a little immature and like to go out a lot but I guess in that sense they make a good pair. We don't spend a lot of time at their apartment but she did say something about when they get their own place she wants to host a holiday. Not sure about that since she doesn't really know how to cook but I guess we can play it by ear!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I wouldn't live with a man who refused to marry me either. JMO

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 And if neither of them want to get married right away.? 

I am not in a rush to be married.  It doesn't have much to do with my bf.

They've been dating for 5 years and are buying a house together. Mom doesn't say fiancé, she says boyfriend. Why don't they just get married? They are playing house...

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I wouldn't live with a man who refused to marry me either. JMO

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 And if neither of them want to get married right away.? 

I am not in a rush to be married.  It doesn't have much to do with my bf.

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 They've been together for five years.  If they don't know by now they're never going to know.  And no, I would never ever ever ever ever, did I say ever?, buy a house with someone to whom I wasn't legally wed.  How many Dear Abby letters have we seen about this?  Um, we even watched it play out IRL to a geek here. 

Ohfour wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I wouldn't live with a man who refused to marry me either. JMO

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 And if neither of them want to get married right away.? 

I am not in a rush to be married.  It doesn't have much to do with my bf.

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 Then why not get married? Are you afraid of commitment? Are you even engaged? 

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 Because our desire to be married does not outweigh our distaste of weddings, nor our desire to not severly disapoint bith of our families. 

We would like to be married, but if we elope our mothers would be heartbroken, and we simply don't want it bad enough to do that, or to suffer through a proper wedding. 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I wouldn't live with a man who refused to marry me either. JMO

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 And if neither of them want to get married right away.? 

I am not in a rush to be married.  It doesn't have much to do with my bf.

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 Then why not get married? Are you afraid of commitment? Are you even engaged? 

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 Because our desire to be married does not outweigh our distaste of weddings, nor our desire to not severly disapoint bith of our families. 

We would like to be married, but if we elope our mothers would be heartbroken, and we simply don't want it bad enough to do that, or to suffer through a proper wedding. 

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You don't have to suffer. A wedding does not need to have all the crap you see in catalogues. Make it low key and casual. Do a farm theme. Have fun with it.

I hated my wedding. Very few fond memories. I hated the stress, planning, and especially my normally sweet and sane MIL going hardcore MIL-zilla. If I could do it over, there'd be so much I would change. Namely, finding a creative way to avoid wearing a stupid frilly overpriced wedding dress. I was so sick from the stress on the day of my wedding, I had a cough drop in my mouth during the ceremony to keep from coughing. I lost my voice completely a few days prior and it still wasn't fully back on my wedding day. The best memories I have of that day include my MOH making me laugh multiple times, celebrating my Grandpa's 88th birthday at the reception, and God making it rain that day so MIL's plans to bastardize my truck with 'just married' crap got thwarted.

She can do whatever she pleases. I think we are just commenring thay weddings don't have to be distasteful.

I think the 'actions have consequences' applies to both sides... Daughter knew she risked offending her parents by cohabitating with her SO, the parents should also know that there will likely be impact to their relationship with their daughter if they pester her with their disapproval of her lifestyle every time they meet. That said, this is one single party... I think it would need to be a pretty weak relationship if that one single incident was enough to permanently damage it.
My concern would actually be the opposite when my girls are adults... I would be very concerned if one of my girls decided to marry without living together first... it seems foolhardy to me to make a lifelong commitment without at least confirming that you and your potential partner can live together happily. (I'm obviously not religious and also have a very different take on marriage than most others on this thread. Our legal system also has very liberal common law marriage standards.) While I would obviously express my concern to them, once, and choose to attend showers, weddings, etc., I can absolutely understand why a concerned parent wouldn't choose to participate.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Well, how do you treat people with whom you disagree? Do you act snotty to them? Give them the cold shoulder? Ignore them? Continually tell them why they are wrong? Or what? If it was my daughter I would go to the party. The daughter is a grown woman. It is HER choice to make, not mom's. But, if you don't wish to go , then daughter also needs to allow mom to have space to disagree as well.

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 How is simply declining to attend a party any of those?

This isn't any different from the baker not baking the cake for a gay wedding.

The parents do not approve of the
is living arrangement and they don't have to pretend that they do.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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What's so distasteful about a wedding? It is what YOU make it. You can get married with a few people or 500. With dinners and bands abd limos or a cake from the local deli.

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 I hate being the center of attention, and I hate crowds.

Shy Boy hates being in the center of attention and hates crowds.

A wedding, no matter how lovely and low-ey, would at it's core be a large crowd with the two of us at the center of attention.

*shudder*

BUT, not having a wedding (i.e, eloping) would be so hurtful to a lot of people--Like his elderly Gram that welcomed me into the family so warmly, and my dear great Aunties from Florida that faithfully send cards every Christmas and birthday. They would understand, and forgive us, but they would also be so sad. I We both have warm and loving families, that would be so happy for us, and support us.

But we don't want a wedding.

We are quite happy where we are thank you. ALthough the other day my BF commented that if I got pregnant, we should get married so I could be on his insurance, because it was much better than mine and covered and I quote "All sorts of cool prenatal stuff."

 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Quite honestly - I don't get the issue. Every Christian and every person raised Christian is fully aware the sleeping together and living together before marriage is a sin. I get that many people do it anyway, but they should not be even faintly surprised when parents don't approve.

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I don't get the issue, either.  Not everyone in the world is going to share your values--sorry to burst your bubble.  Even your kids values will likely not exactly mirror your own.    

lilyofcourse wrote:

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This isn't any different from the baker not baking the cake for a gay wedding.

The parents do not approve of the
is living arrangement and they don't have to pretend that they do.

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They can make whatever choice they want to--but they will ruin their relationship with their daughters if they persist with this behavior--and likely lock themselves out of the lives of future grandchildren.

 

And for what? To show that, um, they have these "values"?  Their daughters already know what their values are and have chosen a different path for themselves.  It's FOOLISH to expect that even your children's values will exactly mirror your own.  

Lawyerlady wrote:

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elphaba wrote:

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I think the 'actions have consequences' applies to both sides... Daughter knew she risked offending her parents by cohabitating with her SO, the parents should also know that there will likely be impact to their relationship with their daughter if they pester her with their disapproval of her lifestyle every time they meet. That said, this is one single party... I think it would need to be a pretty weak relationship if that one single incident was enough to permanently damage it.
My concern would actually be the opposite when my girls are adults... I would be very concerned if one of my girls decided to marry without living together first... it seems foolhardy to me to make a lifelong commitment without at least confirming that you and your potential partner can live together happily. (I'm obviously not religious and also have a very different take on marriage than most others on this thread. Our legal system also has very liberal common law marriage standards.) While I would obviously express my concern to them, once, and choose to attend showers, weddings, etc., I can absolutely understand why a concerned parent wouldn't choose to participate.

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 Living together before marriage increases your risk of divorce. 

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 I offset it by being an atheist... we have a lower rate. :)

Yeah, I went on vacation with my ex at her insitence. That worked out wonderfully..

What I want to know is what you accomplish by going verses not going. Because I am not seeing any pros to boycotting a celebration for a big achievement (buying a house!) and I am seeing a fairly big con.
I mean, yay, you have your precious VALUES!
And I hope they comfort you years down the road when you have let them divide you from your children.

I'm not saying there isn't anything that would be worth losing such relationships over--but this isn't it.

If my child came home and said they wanted to convert to Islam--I'm not sure we would have much of a relationship in the future.

If my child came home and said they wanted to go through transgender surgery--same thing.

Thankfully, they haven't--and this isn't those.

Also, I find it fairly amusing that while living together is such a great sin and such an important value to several on here--apparently staying married wasn't.

huskerbb wrote:

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I'm not saying there isn't anything that would be worth losing such relationships over--but this isn't it.

If my child came home and said they wanted to convert to Islam--I'm not sure we would have much of a relationship in the future.

If my child came home and said they wanted to go through transgender surgery--same thing.

Thankfully, they haven't--and this isn't those.

Also, I find it fairly amusing that while living together is such a great sin and such an important value to several on here--apparently staying married wasn't.

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 Hey, I agree with husker!