TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

RE: Parents' outrage after their autistic daughter is kicked off flight because she made the pilot 'feel uncomfortable'

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Or they might supportthe discretion of the Pilot.
That's a possibility too but they'd have to prove he had reason to feel threatened. There was footage from several phones so I imagine those people would testify that they didn't feel threatened.
No. The person suing would have to prove the pilot was not within his rights.

The PROOF that she was not considered a threat is that they put her right back on another United Airlines flight. If she was really considered a threat, that would not have happened.

Both the ******* flight attendant and the idiot pilot screwed up.

FNW · Guru

Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.

They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Or they might supportthe discretion of the Pilot.
That's a possibility too but they'd have to prove he had reason to feel threatened. There was footage from several phones so I imagine those people would testify that they didn't feel threatened.
No. The person suing would have to prove the pilot was not within his rights.
The PROOF that she was not considered a threat is that they put her right back on another United Airlines flight. If she was really considered a threat, that would not have happened.
Both the ******* flight attendant and the idiot pilot screwed up.

So what? People are hung up on that word. You DO NOT have to be deemed a threat to be removed from a flight. That is not the law. There are other reasons and most are up to the discretion of the flight crew.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.
They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.

You can be removed for other reasons--most of which are up to the discretion of the crew.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.
They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.

At the time the pilot decided to land the plane, she WAS perceived as a threat.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.
They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.
You can be removed for other reasons--most of which are up to the discretion of the crew.

Which is as it should be.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

Disabled passengers do have certain rights--being provided with food that was not part of their fare is not one of them.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.
They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.
At the time the pilot decided to land the plane, she WAS perceived as a threat.
flan

No. She wasn't. They put her right back on another plane. A THREAT would not have been put on a plane. That is basic common sense.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And the mother chose her words very poorly.

flan

FNW · Guru

No, they did not put her on another plane. They flew home on a different airline. Not United.

huskerbb · Guru

Being booked on another flight is irrelevant. That is routinely done with people who are removed from flights for various reasons.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Since NONE of us were actually, you know, ON THAT PLANE...

flan

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Mom is suing for discrimination. She'll have to prove that her daughter was in a protected class (disability) and that they were removed because of her disability. Then they will have to prove they were damaged as a result. The airlines will defend by saying she was not removed because of her disability, but because she was a threat, or the behavior violated FAA regulations, or provide another legitimate reason.

Which they have already disproven by putting her on another plane.
They removed her because the pilot was uncomfortable with her disability.
At the time the pilot decided to land the plane, she WAS perceived as a threat.
flan
No. She wasn't. They put her right back on another plane. A THREAT would not have been put on a plane. That is basic common sense.

You are wrong. People removed from flights are routinely booked on other flights.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Disabled passengers do have certain rights--being provided with food that was not part of their fare is not one of them.

On the contrary, they are required to recieve REASONABLE accomodation. And the mother PURCHASING a meal that is available on the plane is very reasonable.

And the airlines problem is this - a jury. You are going to have testimony from most of the passengers that the flight attendant was rude and unreasonable, that the mother was polite in her requests and offered to pay for the meal, that the girl was behaving fine and she was not a threat, and that they kicked her off the plane for no reason. That is what has been reported.

The airline will not win.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Being booked on another flight is irrelevant. That is routinely done with people who are removed from flights for various reasons.

Not with people removed for being a THREAT.

FNW · Guru

I'll agree if this goes to a jury trial, the airlines would probably lose, unless the jury actually does it's job and follows the letter of the law. But I don't think the airlines will let it go that far, because of bad publicity.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Disabled passengers do have certain rights--being provided with food that was not part of their fare is not one of them.
On the contrary, they are required to recieve REASONABLE accomodation. And the mother PURCHASING a meal that is available on the plane is very reasonable.

And the airlines problem is this - a jury. You are going to have testimony from most of the passengers that the flight attendant was rude and unreasonable, that the mother was polite in her requests and offered to pay for the meal, that the girl was behaving fine and she was not a threat, and that they kicked her off the plane for no reason. That is what has been reported.
The airline will not win.

I read the rights. That is not in there.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

First, you say she was removed because she was a threat of violence. Then you say she doesn't have to be a threat to be removed.

You ignore one basic fact - she has a disability. And therefore they are required to give her special accomodation, and NO, she does not have to tell them ahead of time.

It was a MEAL. That the mother was willing to pay for and that was readily available on the plane. That is the very definition of reasonable accomodation. If they fight this in court, they will lose.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Being booked on another flight is irrelevant. That is routinely done with people who are removed from flights for various reasons.
Not with people removed for being a THREAT.

You don't know that. You also dont know that is why she was removed. NJN contends it was not.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
First, you say she was removed because she was a threat of violence. Then you say she doesn't have to be a threat to be removed.

You ignore one basic fact - she has a disability. And therefore they are required to give her special accomodation, and NO, she does not have to tell them ahead of time.

It was a MEAL. That the mother was willing to pay for and that was readily available on the plane. That is the very definition of reasonable accomodation. If they fight this in court, they will lose.

That is not reasonable. She wants first class privileges in coach.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

The airline has NO obligation to sell a first-class meal to a passenger in coach.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First, you say she was removed because she was a threat of violence. Then you say she doesn't have to be a threat to be removed.

You ignore one basic fact - she has a disability. And therefore they are required to give her special accomodation, and NO, she does not have to tell them ahead of time.

It was a MEAL. That the mother was willing to pay for and that was readily available on the plane. That is the very definition of reasonable accomodation. If they fight this in court, they will lose.
That is not reasonable. She wants first class privileges in coach.

First class meals are FREE to passengers. PAYING FOR ONE would be a reasonable accomodation for a disabled person.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".

FNW · Guru

Perhaps there wasn't enough first class food to go around? That does happen. I took my father to California first class and he picked a breakfast. Once he saw mine, he asked if he could change his order and they said they would try but would have to wait and see if there was enough. There was, but they did have to serve the others first before making that call.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
Perhaps there wasn't enough first class food to go around? That does happen. I took my father to California first class and he picked a breakfast. Once he saw mine, he asked if he could change his order and they said they would try but would have to wait and see if there was enough. There was, but they did have to serve the others first before making that call.

I believe that is a very valid point. Space is limited, so they can't have lots of extra meals.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Bull. They would have extra meals in case the first class passengers wanted more. That's a lame attempt to justify this.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".

Mom could have spoken to the flight crew as they were boarding, rather than claiming that her daughter would start scratching people...

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bull. They would have extra meals in case the first class passengers wanted more. That's a lame attempt to justify this.

So how hungry are these passengers? Do they need 5 meals for each person?

And I'd believe someone who actually worked for an airline.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".
Mom could have spoken to the flight crew as they were boarding, rather than claiming that her daughter would start scratching people...
flan

Mom is not clairvoyant and didn't realize it would be an issue while boarding. Mom asked politely and offered to pay for it. Other passenger accounts say the flight attendant was rude and they couldn't believe they were being so difficult.

Some of you really have compassion for disabled children and their parents. You seem to have more compassion for murderers.

FNW · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bull. They would have extra meals in case the first class passengers wanted more. That's a lame attempt to justify this.

So....how is it "reasonable" to deprive First Class passengers who actually pay through the nose for their seats and all the perks to give it to a coach passenger who already had their own food?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bull. They would have extra meals in case the first class passengers wanted more. That's a lame attempt to justify this.
So how hungry are these passengers? Do they need 5 meals for each person?
And I'd believe someone who actually worked for an airline.
flan

Who knows and who cares? The airline has to be prepared. First class is about free food and free drinks.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bull. They would have extra meals in case the first class passengers wanted more. That's a lame attempt to justify this.
So....how is it "reasonable" to deprive First Class passengers who actually pay through the nose for their seats and all the perks to give it to a coach passenger who already had their own food?

They would not be depriving anyone. You people are REALLY stretching.

FNW · Guru

Why did they wait until they got on the plane to eat? If I'm flying coach, I always make sure I eat before boarding, even if I'm not hungry, I'll eat. Because I know they won't have anything on the plane.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Why did they wait until they got on the plane to eat? If I'm flying coach, I always make sure I eat before boarding, even if I'm not hungry, I'll eat. Because I know they won't have anything on the plane.

YOu know what? I'm not going to answer this because it has already been posted. Try reading the entire thread.

Tinydancer · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".
Mom could have spoken to the flight crew as they were boarding, rather than claiming that her daughter would start scratching people...
flan
Mom is not clairvoyant and didn't realize it would be an issue while boarding. Mom asked politely and offered to pay for it. Other passenger accounts say the flight attendant was rude and they couldn't believe they were being so difficult.

Some of you really have compassion for disabled children and their parents. You seem to have more compassion for murderers.

FNW · Guru

Yes, I read where they bought her food which was refused prior to boarding. Maybe she wasn't hungry?

I still think there was more to story than is being told. The pilot made a mistake by being too PC and using the word "uncomfortable" when he most likely really felt the behavior, either the girl's or her mother's, was a threat.

And I do think that if special accommodations are required the parent should damned well make sure they are requested prior to the day of flight, especially if the results are violent when not met.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Yes, I read where they bought her food which was refused prior to boarding. Maybe she wasn't hungry?

I still think there was more to story than is being told. The pilot made a mistake by being too PC and using the word "uncomfortable" when he most likely really felt the behavior, either the girl's or her mother's, was a threat.

And I do think that if special accommodations are required the parent should damned well make sure they are requested prior to the day of flight, especially if the results are violent when not met.

That is not the requirement. In fact, the rules are that they DON'T have to provide advance notice unless it is something like needing a stretcher on the plane. And again, mom did not KNOW ahead of time it would be an issue, and it was NOT that big a deal until it was made into one.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Yes, I read where they bought her food which was refused prior to boarding. Maybe she wasn't hungry?

I still think there was more to story than is being told. The pilot made a mistake by being too PC and using the word "uncomfortable" when he most likely really felt the behavior, either the girl's or her mother's, was a threat.

And I do think that if special accommodations are required the parent should damned well make sure they are requested prior to the day of flight, especially if the results are violent when not met.

That is not the requirement. In fact, the rules are that they DON'T have to provide advance notice unless it is something like needing a stretcher on the plane. And again, mom did not KNOW ahead of time it would be an issue, and it was NOT that big a deal until it was made into one.

The mom made it a big deal. The crew did not. As soon as the mom said that she could have a meltdown and scratch someone, she became a threat. She shouldn't be allowed to fly since that is the case.

FNW · Guru

Requiring food on a non-food flight requires advance notice. When food used to be served, if one required a special diet, they needed to let the airline know in advance so they could provide accommodation. If you wanted to just wing it and see what they had, you weren't always going to get what you wanted.

The mother might not have predicted her daughter would refuse the food she purchased prior to boarding, but she certainly knew what happened if she did not get a warm meal. She should have requested a hot meal in advance, JIC. If the airline would not be able to accommodate her, then fly on a different airline. But work all this out before boarding, rather than threatening scratching and expecting help.

I feel for her, I do. It's difficult enough traveling with children who are not disabled. Preparation is key. And yes, even then, the unexpected could happen. I suspect the mother was more afraid of a scene.

Personally, I checked with the airline before traveling with my son who has allergies to cats, to make sure there were no felines booked on that flight. They could not guarantee a pet-free flight, but they did go through the passenger list to check for me. One airline refused to check, so I did not book with them. The airline was on notice of my son's condition at the time of booking, and reminded a few days before our flight. They were prepared to move our seats if necessary, and were grateful for the advance notice. I have found that it's better to try to work with people, rather than expecting entitlement.

The article said she had flown around the world with her daughter. I wonder how may first class meals she snagged.

-- Edited by FNW on Wednesday 13th of May 2015 10:22:59 AM

burns07 · Guru

y'all are waaaayyyyy overthinking this--this isn't about food, it isn't about autism, it isn't about discrimination--it is about an incident on an aircraft where the POTENTIAL for injury to the passengers / crew was REAL and PRESENT--simple--for the safety of EVERYONE, remove the potential for injury--and IT IS at the sole discretion of the captain

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Yes, I read where they bought her food which was refused prior to boarding. Maybe she wasn't hungry?

I still think there was more to story than is being told. The pilot made a mistake by being too PC and using the word "uncomfortable" when he most likely really felt the behavior, either the girl's or her mother's, was a threat.

And I do think that if special accommodations are required the parent should damned well make sure they are requested prior to the day of flight, especially if the results are violent when not met.

That is not the requirement. In fact, the rules are that they DON'T have to provide advance notice unless it is something like needing a stretcher on the plane. And again, mom did not KNOW ahead of time it would be an issue, and it was NOT that big a deal until it was made into one.
The mom made it a big deal. The crew did not. As soon as the mom said that she could have a meltdown and scratch someone, she became a threat. She shouldn't be allowed to fly since that is the case.

THANK YOU.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

burns07 wrote:

y'all are waaaayyyyy overthinking this--this isn't about food, it isn't about autism, it isn't about discrimination--it is about an incident on an aircraft where the POTENTIAL for injury to the passengers / crew was REAL and PRESENT--simple--for the safety of EVERYONE, remove the potential for injury--and IT IS at the sole discretion of the captain

Czech.......

I hope you're sitting down. I am agreeing with husker AND burns on this thread.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
Requiring food on a non-food flight requires advance notice. When food used to be served, if one required a special diet, they needed to let the airline know in advance so they could provide accommodation. If you wanted to just wing it and see what they had, you weren't always going to get what you wanted.

The mother might not have predicted her daughter would refuse the food she purchased prior to boarding, but she certainly knew what happened if she did not get a warm meal. She should have requested a hot meal in advance, JIC. If the airline would not be able to accommodate her, then fly on a different airline. But work all this out before boarding, rather than threatening scratching and expecting help.

I feel for her, I do. It's difficult enough traveling with children who are not disabled. Preparation is key. And yes, even then, the unexpected could happen. I suspect the mother was more afraid of a scene.
Personally, I checked with the airline before traveling with my son who has allergies to cats, to make sure there were no felines booked on that flight. They could not guarantee a pet-free flight, but they did go through the passenger list to check for me. One airline refused to check, so I did not book with them. The airline was on notice of my son's condition at the time of booking, and reminded a few days before our flight. They were prepared to move our seats if necessary, and were grateful for the advance notice. I have found that it's better to try to work with people, rather than expecting entitlement.

The article said she had flown around the world with her daughter. I wonder how may first class meals she snagged.

-- Edited by FNW on Wednesday 13th of May 2015 10:22:59 AM

It's really very simple.

The family is not in a restaurant. They are in a PLANE with other passengers who have the RIGHT to a safe flight.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".
Mom could have spoken to the flight crew as they were boarding, rather than claiming that her daughter would start scratching people...
flan
Mom is not clairvoyant and didn't realize it would be an issue while boarding. Mom asked politely and offered to pay for it. Other passenger accounts say the flight attendant was rude and they couldn't believe they were being so difficult.

Some of you really have compassion for disabled children and their parents. You seem to have more compassion for murderers.

Well, bless your heart.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
You people have difficulty with the word "accomodation".
Mom could have spoken to the flight crew as they were boarding, rather than claiming that her daughter would start scratching people...
flan
Mom is not clairvoyant and didn't realize it would be an issue while boarding. Mom asked politely and offered to pay for it. Other passenger accounts say the flight attendant was rude and they couldn't believe they were being so difficult.

Some of you really have compassion for disabled children and their parents. You seem to have more compassion for murderers.

Well, bless your heart.
flan

Back at ya!

So you are denying you have more sympathy for a father who kills his family than an autistic child who might have a melt down?

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Wednesday 13th of May 2015 11:41:31 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I can't go back to that thread, AS YOU WELL KNOW, and I am not going to hijack this one.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
I can't go back to that thread, AS YOU WELL KNOW, and I am not going to hijack this one.

flan

Yes I know. I was just agreeing with LL. We all know what you mean by "Bless your heart" so don't be acting all innocent flan.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I can't go back to that thread, AS YOU WELL KNOW, and I am not going to hijack this one.

flan
Yes I know. I was just agreeing with LL. We all know what you mean by "Bless your heart" so don't be acting all innocent flan.

I'm not innocent. It's obvious what I meant.

But twist my words when I can't defend myself...

flan