TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: Parents' outrage after their autistic daughter is kicked off flight because she made the pilot 'feel uncomfortable'

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Blankie wrote:
Well, here's the law (excerpts from the Air Carrier Access Act):

"In 1986 Congress passed the Air Carrier Access Act, requiring the Department of Transportation (DOT) to develop new regulations which ensure that persons with disabilities will be treated without discrimination in a way consistent with the safe carriage of all passengers. These regulations were published in March 1990.
The Air Carrier Access rules sweep aside many restrictions that formerly discriminated against passengers with disabilities:

* A carrier may not refuse transportation to a passenger solely on the basis of a disability.

* Air carriers may not limit the number of individuals with disabilities on a particular flight.

* All trip information that is made available to other passengers also must be made available to passengers with disabilities.

* Carriers must provide passage to an individual who has a disability that may affect his or her appearance or involuntary behavior, even if this disability may offend, annoy, or be an inconvenience to crew-members or other passengers. "
"Exceptions to this rule

* The carrier may refuse transportation if the individual with a disability would endanger the health or safety of other passengers, or transporting the person would be a violation of FAA safety rules."
That girl was not a danger. And Mom only said what she said b/c the flight attendant was not taking her needs seriously. The flight attendant was a complete jerk and should never have even involved the captain.
This is a disabled little girl.
I have had issue with some of the people's "empathy and compassion" arguments before because they want it to apply to the strangest situations, but now - don't even bother EVER trying to use that argument again.

If that flight attendant had simply made a reasonable accommodation by letting that mother buy a meal instead of arguing with her and being a jerk - NONE of this would be an issue.
She was NOT a little girl.
I will use the terms "empathy and compassion" whenever warranted.
The problem HERE was the mother.
flan

So a mother trying to help her autistic daughter doesn't deserve the same compassion you showed for a man who murdered his family? That is just whacked.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.

What is WRONG with you?

Even your Jesus showed compassion for the robbers who were crucified with him.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.
What is WRONG with you?
Even your Jesus showed compassion for the robbers who were crucified with him.
flan

I didn't know you had your own Jesus lily. I think Jesus would have had more compassion for a mother trying to help her child than the robbers he was crucified with.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 14th of May 2015 07:22:31 AM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.
What is WRONG with you?
Even your Jesus showed compassion for the robbers who were crucified with him.
flan
I didn't know you had your own Jesus lily. I think Jesus would have had more compassion for a mother trying to help her child than the robbers he was crucified with.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 14th of May 2015 07:22:31 AM

My own personal Jesus...

Always kinda liked that song.

Anywho.

Jesus loves every single soul. No matter how messed up they are.

This isn't about His love.

This is about misplaced compassion.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.
What is WRONG with you?
Even your Jesus showed compassion for the robbers who were crucified with him.
flan

Nothing.

I am not the one feeling bad for a murderer but being callous about a girl with a dieability.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
She doesn't qualify for compassion or sympathy.

She didn't kill anybody.
What is WRONG with you?
Even your Jesus showed compassion for the robbers who were crucified with him.
flan
Nothing.
I am not the one feeling bad for a murderer but being callous about a girl with a dieability.

Try READING what I post.

I think the MOTHER handled the situation poorly.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Mom was taking care of her daughter and by doing so, doing everyone else on the plane a favor. Sure, she could have said nothing and then let everyone listen to an upset child for hours, but she didn't-- EVERYONE else on the plane sided with mom, and said the airline was in the wrong.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Mom was taking care of her daughter and by doing so, doing everyone else on the plane a favor. Sure, she could have said nothing and then let everyone listen to an upset child for hours, but she didn't-- EVERYONE else on the plane sided with mom, and said the airline was in the wrong.

I understand Dona, but ultimately it was the pilot's decision.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

And it was a stupid decision that should never had been made. The flight attendant should at least be suspended, and the airline deserves this lawsuit.
Discrimination, plain and simple. The girl was not a threat, no one was at risk. The other passengers did not at all feel threatened.

FNW · Guru

I feel compassion for the mother. Or should I say, I felt compassion. Any compassion went away when she brought the lawsuit.

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
And it was a stupid decision that should never had been made. The flight attendant should at least be suspended, and the airline deserves this lawsuit.
Discrimination, plain and simple. The girl was not a threat, no one was at risk. The other passengers did not at all feel threatened.

She was a threat. Her mother threatened bodily harm if the flight attendant didn't do her job properly. Why should she be suspended for doing her job?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
And it was a stupid decision that should never had been made. The flight attendant should at least be suspended, and the airline deserves this lawsuit.
Discrimination, plain and simple. The girl was not a threat, no one was at risk. The other passengers did not at all feel threatened.
She was a threat. Her mother threatened bodily harm if the flight attendant didn't do her job properly. Why should she be suspended for doing her job?

She should have reasoned with the flight attendant, rather than stating that her daughter would start scratching passengers.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Why? Her and her family were severely inconvenienced and publicly humiliated over her daughters disability.
This is exactly the sort of thing discrimination lawsuits are for.

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Why? Her and her family were severely inconvenienced and publicly humiliated over her daughters disability.
This is exactly the sort of thing discrimination lawsuits are for.

They were not discriminated against. They weren't inconvenienced because of a disability, they were kicked off the plane because of a physical threat...

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.

She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.

She could have easily stood up & reached the seats in front of her.

flan

FNW · Guru

No, discrimination lawsuits are for those who were discriminated against because of a protected class. While disability is a protected class, I do not see discrimination here. I see a mother who freaked out an airline flight attendant and made threats. For food.

Ohfour · Hooker

And again, where is the discrimination you are so fond of accusing pointing out?

FNW · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
And again, where is the discrimination you are so fond of accusing pointing out?

Right. That's like saying I discriminate against Obama because he's black. I don't like him because he's abusing his power.

Just because a disabled person was removed from a plane doesn't mean she was removed because of her disability.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

This is from the mom's FB page:

Juliette was beginning to cry. Frustrated I said, after she has a melt down and tries to scratch in frustration, will you help her then? He said he would see what he could do. He came back scowled at me and gave her a hot meal.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

And you would feel alarmed or threatened by that?
What is WRONG with you people???

FNW · Guru

Depending on the tone the mother took with me, yes. And I'm guessing she was a bit...hysterical.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
Depending on the tone the mother took with me, yes. And I'm guessing she was a bit...hysterical.

Yep. If someone threatens me to get their way, then they need to be handled. It was handled correctly...

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

So hysterical that none of the other passengers noticed?
Yeah, not buying it. The flight attendant was way out of line.

FNW · Guru

How do you know NONE of the other passengers noticed? A couple of people gave statements?

The mother herself says she is bringing suit mainly to raise "awareness." Hardly sounds as though she's "damaged" by the airline's conduct. She could have done that without suing the airlines.

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
So hysterical that none of the other passengers noticed?
Yeah, not buying it. The flight attendant was way out of line.

She didn't threaten the other passengers. She threatened the flight attendant. Who has every right to protect himself from threats of bodily injury. He doesn't know what diseases this girl has. If she HAD scratched him, she would be charged with battery...

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

And where did she threaten the flight attendant?

Ohfour · Hooker

Dr Beegle, who heads up an anti-poverty organization, is good at anticipating her daughter's moods and had requested the food so that her 15-year-old didn't become upset and possibly scratch someone.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
And where did she threaten the flight attendant?

I already quoted the mom.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Which proves my point. She did not threaten the flight attendant at all.

Ohfour · Hooker

She said that if she didn't get her way, she could scratch someone. This was directed at the flight attendant. She made a threat. If you're saying she didn't, then you're not real bright...

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

She might scratch.
In a window seat, her family next to her.
The people in front and behind did not in any way feel threatened.
Who was she most likely to scratch? Her family.

Ohfour · Hooker

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
She might scratch.
In a window seat, her family next to her.
The people in front and behind did not in any way feel threatened.
Who was she most likely to scratch? Her family.

Most likely? Maybe...not a chance I'm willing to take....

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Which proves my point. She did not threaten the flight attendant at all.

It was a general THREAT.

flan

FNW · Guru

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-kicked-flight-after-daughter-autism-deemed-disruption-n356811

Evidently someone did complain she was disruptive. While I agree that a small child or infant crying would not be cause for an emergency landing, a 120 lb person crying or having a meltdown might be cause.

FNW · Guru

If it makes any difference, I used to work with children with disabilities, teaching them reading, writing, and arithmetic at schools. My work was strictly volunteer. This was back before behavior disorders had a label. I did so because of my compassion. And in my work, I have seen these children act out in such manners that is very frightening, particularly the larger children. The boy with the hook scared me the most, as he used to chase people with it and try to poke them in the eye.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
If it makes any difference, I used to work with children with disabilities, teaching them reading, writing, and arithmetic at schools. My work was strictly volunteer. This was back before behavior disorders had a label. I did so because of my compassion. And in my work, I have seen these children act out in such manners that is very frightening, particularly the larger children. The boy with the hook scared me the most, as he used to chase people with it and try to poke them in the eye.

DH's oldest granddaughter is prone to fits of rage...when she's tired, hungry, doesn't get her way. She is 12, but because of her condition (and the meds she takes), you would think she was 6 or 7.

She can do a LOT of damage, to herself and others.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...

No, she absolutely did not.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Mom was taking care of her daughter and by doing so, doing everyone else on the plane a favor. Sure, she could have said nothing and then let everyone listen to an upset child for hours, but she didn't-- EVERYONE else on the plane sided with mom, and said the airline was in the wrong.
I understand Dona, but ultimately it was the pilot's decision.
flan

Just because it was his decision does not mean it was the right one.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.

Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...

"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.

Don't care. If someone threatens possible harm to me or others to get their way, that is reason for her to be booted. If she's that bad off, she shouldn't be flying anyway...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.
Don't care. If someone threatens possible harm to me or others to get their way, that is reason for her to be booted. If she's that bad off, she shouldn't be flying anyway...

SHE did no such thing.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.
Don't care. If someone threatens possible harm to me or others to get their way, that is reason for her to be booted. If she's that bad off, she shouldn't be flying anyway...
SHE did no such thing.

She's non verbal. Her mother threatened. Potato, pototo. Harm was alluded to if she didn't get her way. She may be put on a no fly list and I would support that...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.

1. Yes, I have.

2. Yes, she most definitely WAS attacking other people.

Not ALL autistic children are the same and you know that.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.
Don't care. If someone threatens possible harm to me or others to get their way, that is reason for her to be booted. If she's that bad off, she shouldn't be flying anyway...
SHE did no such thing.
She's non verbal. Her mother threatened. Potato, pototo. Harm was alluded to if she didn't get her way. She may be put on a no fly list and I would support that...

She's non verbal. Huh. So, anyone can just speak threats for her? uh huh. Not a good precedent.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
The girl was in a window seat, blocked in by her family.
Show me where the mother said she would turn her loose to attack other passengers.
She threated that she would attack a flight attendant. That's all it takes. Other passengers don't matter...
No, she absolutely did not.
Her mother said that unless she got her hot food, she could have a meltdown and scratch someone. That "someone" wasn't specific. If she had told me that, I would assume she meant me. No matter though, she could have meant other passengers. They should be protected...
"might scratch someone" and "attack a flight attendant" are two very different things. Have you ever had to deal with an autistic child in a meltdown? The are not attacking people.
1. Yes, I have.
2. Yes, she most definitely WAS attacking other people.
Not ALL autistic children are the same and you know that.
flan

Yes, I know. Some of them sit quietly and watch videos.