TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: Girl, 13, commits suicide by jumping from bridge after her dad recorded video cutting off her hair

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I don't really get the dealing with multiple meltdowns and tantrums. We don't allow tantrums and my children learned that after the first time - and no, I didn't have to beat them to make that clear.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
I don't really get the dealing with multiple meltdowns and tantrums. We don't allow tantrums and my children learned that after the first time - and no, I didn't have to beat them to make that clear.

Bully for you...

I don't remember my kids throwing tantrums. I'm sure they likely did.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I don't really get the dealing with multiple meltdowns and tantrums. We don't allow tantrums and my children learned that after the first time - and no, I didn't have to beat them to make that clear.

I didn't think you sounded like a beating your kids kind of mother and it's too bad flan had to go there.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
As a parent - if you don't know the difference between a meltdown due to circumstances beyond the control of a child and a temper tantrum - you are going to have a lot of problems through the years.

But choosing to simply reward your child with sympathy and hugs when they are being little brats just creates bigger brats.

You go just as extreme as flan. Nobody is saying to reward your child with hugs and sympathy for every meltdown. Is there no grey area between you two? There are times when a stern punishment or even spanking is in order and also times to recognize when you child needs a hug. It isn't either or. The kids who are messed up in life are the Either Or parents, the ones who spank, spank, spank or the ones who only feel sorry and make excuses. In life, there is a balance to be had here.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
As a parent - if you don't know the difference between a meltdown due to circumstances beyond the control of a child and a temper tantrum - you are going to have a lot of problems through the years.

But choosing to simply reward your child with sympathy and hugs when they are being little brats just creates bigger brats.
You go just as extreme as flan. Nobody is saying to reward your child with hugs and sympathy for every meltdown. Is there no grey area between you two? There are times when a stern punishment or even spanking is in order and also times to recognize when you child needs a hug. It isn't either or. The kids who are messed up in life are the Either Or parents, the ones who spank, spank, spank or the ones who only feel sorry and make excuses. In life, there is a balance to be had here.

Because I don't believe rewarding tantrums and meltdowns with hugs I'm an extreme parent? There are other reactions, you know - like ignoring it. You talk about raising kids with resilience and then question me when I don't hug over behavior that is not appropriate. I hug my kids all the time - when their feelings are hurt, when they are sad, when they just want to cuddle, and when they or I just want a hug. But no, I do not hug when it involves screaming and crying b/c that's not a response I want to encourage EVEN IF the reason for the meltdown is not thier fault. They need to learn to COPE.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

LL, I never said that you beat your kids. What I sensed was a condescending attitude toward other parents whose kids did have more than one tantrum.

And I agree with LGS that BALANCE is important in parenting.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

For example - I don't think sobbing is an appropriate response to not having a drink for 5 minutes.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
As a parent - if you don't know the difference between a meltdown due to circumstances beyond the control of a child and a temper tantrum - you are going to have a lot of problems through the years.

But choosing to simply reward your child with sympathy and hugs when they are being little brats just creates bigger brats.
You go just as extreme as flan. Nobody is saying to reward your child with hugs and sympathy for every meltdown. Is there no grey area between you two? There are times when a stern punishment or even spanking is in order and also times to recognize when you child needs a hug. It isn't either or. The kids who are messed up in life are the Either Or parents, the ones who spank, spank, spank or the ones who only feel sorry and make excuses. In life, there is a balance to be had here.
Because I don't believe rewarding tantrums and meltdowns with hugs I'm an extreme parent? There are other reactions, you know - like ignoring it. You talk about raising kids with resilience and then question me when I don't hug over behavior that is not appropriate. I hug my kids all the time - when their feelings are hurt, when they are sad, when they just want to cuddle, and when they or I just want a hug. But no, I do not hug when it involves screaming and crying b/c that's not a response I want to encourage EVEN IF the reason for the meltdown is not thier fault. They need to learn to COPE.

I agree, with the caveat that a 2-year-old is different from a 6-year-old. Siblings are different as well.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
For example - I don't think sobbing is an appropriate response to not having a drink for 5 minutes.

The fact that her MOTHER ignored her played into it. She was sitting at a table behind our desk. The child asked politely the first few times.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
As a parent - if you don't know the difference between a meltdown due to circumstances beyond the control of a child and a temper tantrum - you are going to have a lot of problems through the years.

But choosing to simply reward your child with sympathy and hugs when they are being little brats just creates bigger brats.
You go just as extreme as flan. Nobody is saying to reward your child with hugs and sympathy for every meltdown. Is there no grey area between you two? There are times when a stern punishment or even spanking is in order and also times to recognize when you child needs a hug. It isn't either or. The kids who are messed up in life are the Either Or parents, the ones who spank, spank, spank or the ones who only feel sorry and make excuses. In life, there is a balance to be had here.
Because I don't believe rewarding tantrums and meltdowns with hugs I'm an extreme parent? There are other reactions, you know - like ignoring it. You talk about raising kids with resilience and then question me when I don't hug over behavior that is not appropriate. I hug my kids all the time - when their feelings are hurt, when they are sad, when they just want to cuddle, and when they or I just want a hug. But no, I do not hug when it involves screaming and crying b/c that's not a response I want to encourage EVEN IF the reason for the meltdown is not thier fault. They need to learn to COPE.
I agree, with the caveat that a 2-year-old is different from a 6-year-old. Siblings are different as well.
flan

If you don't teach the 2 year old, by 6 it may be too late.

FNW · Guru

My #1 usually has a meltdown/tantrum when he's tired. He gets "wobbly" and acts out. A little down time and he's fine. But it took me a while to realize this and learn how to handle/avoid. He also has a need to finish whatever it was he had started before "shifting" gears. I have learned to deal with that, too. By working with him, not against him. Sure, as a parent they should respect me and do what I say. But sometimes I have to ask myself, do I want to be happy, or do I want to be right. Sometimes I get more respect by giving it.

My hair is important to me. I spend a lot of money on it. It's short, by choice. I can't imagine my parents whacking off my locks as punishment. But there were other ways to punish me that were effective. You do what you have to do, sometimes. But it does sound like this father went too far (videotaping, cutting it all off, etc.). Whether or not that was the reason she jumped, the only one who can say for sure is dead. And now the father has to live with that.

There's a lot to be said about self-control. Perhaps the father lost his, and now he's lost his daughter. I look at this tragedy as a reminder to take a deep breath and pause when my children are acting up, and to try not to become emotional.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
My #1 usually has a meltdown/tantrum when he's tired. He gets "wobbly" and acts out. A little down time and he's fine. But it took me a while to realize this and learn how to handle/avoid. He also has a need to finish whatever it was he had started before "shifting" gears. I have learned to deal with that, too. By working with him, not against him. Sure, as a parent they should respect me and do what I say. But sometimes I have to ask myself, do I want to be happy, or do I want to be right. Sometimes I get more respect by giving it.

My hair is important to me. I spend a lot of money on it. It's short, by choice. I can't imagine my parents whacking off my locks as punishment. But there were other ways to punish me that were effective. You do what you have to do, sometimes. But it does sound like this father went too far (videotaping, cutting it all off, etc.). Whether or not that was the reason she jumped, the only one who can say for sure is dead. And now the father has to live with that.

There's a lot to be said about self-control. Perhaps the father lost his, and now he's lost his daughter. I look at this tragedy as a reminder to take a deep breath and pause when my children are acting up, and to try not to become emotional.

BRAVO!

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
My #1 usually has a meltdown/tantrum when he's tired. He gets "wobbly" and acts out. A little down time and he's fine. But it took me a while to realize this and learn how to handle/avoid. He also has a need to finish whatever it was he had started before "shifting" gears. I have learned to deal with that, too. By working with him, not against him. Sure, as a parent they should respect me and do what I say. But sometimes I have to ask myself, do I want to be happy, or do I want to be right. Sometimes I get more respect by giving it.

My hair is important to me. I spend a lot of money on it. It's short, by choice. I can't imagine my parents whacking off my locks as punishment. But there were other ways to punish me that were effective. You do what you have to do, sometimes. But it does sound like this father went too far (videotaping, cutting it all off, etc.). Whether or not that was the reason she jumped, the only one who can say for sure is dead. And now the father has to live with that.

There's a lot to be said about self-control. Perhaps the father lost his, and now he's lost his daughter. I look at this tragedy as a reminder to take a deep breath and pause when my children are acting up, and to try not to become emotional.

I agree. But I do have to sympathize with a parent that has reached the end of their rope. If you are not a child beating parent (as I hope people are not) - there are only so many punishments you can dole out. Normally, you can make even the most stubborn teenager respond by taking their phone and their freedom, but if that doesn't work? Sounds like Dad was not creative enough in his punishment choices. I always like the punishment to fit the crime, and there's not much I can think of that had to do with her hair.

The only reason I would cut DD11's hair is if she refused to take care of it - and I have actually made that threat recently. She has hair to her waist now, and she was not washing it and brushing it enough and I got really tired of having to be the one to brush out those tangles and mattes with her whining and crying all the while that it hurt. Well, yeah, it hurts if you don't condition it and brush it regularly. I explained very clearly that if she can't take care of her hair it would have to be cut off. So now, she brushes it 2-3 times a day.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
My #1 usually has a meltdown/tantrum when he's tired. He gets "wobbly" and acts out. A little down time and he's fine. But it took me a while to realize this and learn how to handle/avoid. He also has a need to finish whatever it was he had started before "shifting" gears. I have learned to deal with that, too. By working with him, not against him. Sure, as a parent they should respect me and do what I say. But sometimes I have to ask myself, do I want to be happy, or do I want to be right. Sometimes I get more respect by giving it.

My hair is important to me. I spend a lot of money on it. It's short, by choice. I can't imagine my parents whacking off my locks as punishment. But there were other ways to punish me that were effective. You do what you have to do, sometimes. But it does sound like this father went too far (videotaping, cutting it all off, etc.). Whether or not that was the reason she jumped, the only one who can say for sure is dead. And now the father has to live with that.

There's a lot to be said about self-control. Perhaps the father lost his, and now he's lost his daughter. I look at this tragedy as a reminder to take a deep breath and pause when my children are acting up, and to try not to become emotional.

I agree. But I do have to sympathize with a parent that has reached the end of their rope. If you are not a child beating parent (as I hope people are not) - there are only so many punishments you can dole out. Normally, you can make even the most stubborn teenager respond by taking their phone and their freedom, but if that doesn't work? Sounds like Dad was not creative enough in his punishment choices. I always like the punishment to fit the crime, and there's not much I can think of that had to do with her hair.
The only reason I would cut DD11's hair is if she refused to take care of it - and I have actually made that threat recently. She has hair to her waist now, and she was not washing it and brushing it enough and I got really tired of having to be the one to brush out those tangles and mattes with her whining and crying all the while that it hurt. Well, yeah, it hurts if you don't condition it and brush it regularly. I explained very clearly that if she can't take care of her hair it would have to be cut off. So now, she brushes it 2-3 times a day.

And THAT is the perfect example of consequences fitting behavior.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And I don't like to make empty threats. That's really one of the things that so many parents do. They threaten things to get certain behavior and they don't follow through. I will MAKE myself follow through even if I don't want to. That way, kids learn that you mean what you say.

I hear parents say to their kids that they will cancel their vacation. Really? You will? If that's not something you are willing to actually do, don't say it.

I don't think it's fair to a kid to tell them you will do something and then don't, don't, don't, and then suddenly change your parenting style in a huge way with drastic measures.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I don't think it's fair to a kid to tell them you will do something and then don't, don't, don't, and then suddenly change your parenting style in a huge way with drastic measures.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This was my Dad. He'd threaten & not follow through. Then one day he'd hit the end of his patience & bam it would be big punishment. It did keep us guessing for sure. My parents actually argued about it quite a bit because he worked long hours & it was my mom who had to enforce the 6 month restriction he handed down. Usually she let us off after about 2-3 months after he'd forgotten about it & she was sick of dealing with it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
And I don't like to make empty threats. That's really one of the things that so many parents do. They threaten things to get certain behavior and they don't follow through. I will MAKE myself follow through even if I don't want to. That way, kids learn that you mean what you say.

I hear parents say to their kids that they will cancel their vacation. Really? You will? If that's not something you are willing to actually do, don't say it.

I don't think it's fair to a kid to tell them you will do something and then don't, don't, don't, and then suddenly change your parenting style in a huge way with drastic measures.

I see this SO many times at work.

Mom says: "I'm going to take you home if you don't stop _____."

A half hour later, they are still here and the mom has threatened to leave 5 times.

Kids aren't stupid.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
No, you can't hug away every problem, but a hug can be more effective than other forms of discipline.

flan
A hug is not discipline.
Right, but it can be the very best response to misbehavior.
Sitcom discipline is not a viable option.
No, you prefer to beat your children.
flan

Troll.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

That's it. The next person who calls a regular poster on this board a troll will be BANNED. No more warnings - NOTHING - just DELETE.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
LL, I never said that you beat your kids. What I sensed was a condescending attitude toward other parents whose kids did have more than one tantrum.

And I agree with LGS that BALANCE is important in parenting.

flan

Oh come on. Admit it. You were talking to me.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Get over yourself, Lily.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

You quoted LL's post when you said it so if the insult fits why not just admit it flan?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Tantrums should only occur once.

And the child should learn immediately that tantrums will not be tolerated on any level.

For any reason.

And waiting 5 minutes for water is a bad thing?

The instant society that is being created is simply ridiculous.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Get over yourself, Lily.

flan

It's true Flan. I know it. You know it. All God's children know it.

If your going to make back handed comments, have guts to own them.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WHY would you make a child wait 5 minutes for water when they are thirsty? There was NO reason the mother could not have walked her to the drinking fountain.

But go ahead and teach your children that their NEEDS mean nothing.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Tinydancer wrote:
You quoted LL's post when you said it so if the insult fits why not just admit it flan?

Lily's post was also in there - and I did not think she was talking to me. That does not mean she is all innocent. But, considering Lily's posts lately, I find it extremely hypocritical to be calling anyone else a troll. And I've made it CLEAR previously how I feel about that when flan did it to you. So, the fact that someone thinks it is ok just boggles my mind.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
WHY would you make a child wait 5 minutes for water when they are thirsty? There was NO reason the mother could not have walked her to the drinking fountain.

But go ahead and teach your children that their NEEDS mean nothing.

flan

Maybe because she refused to drink the perfectly good drink her mother wanted her to have before she came in? Maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything before her appointment? Maybe this kid continually drinks and has to pee at the most inconvenient times? Maybe she had JUST HAD a drink and mom didn't think she needed another?

Lots of possible reasons.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

They are not going to die in 5 minutes. They can wait. If it was a true need I am sure the mother would have been more urgent.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I have worked with the public for 35 years. I don't sit in an office (NO disrespect intended).

If she was MY daughter, I would never have made her cry like that.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Unless the child was on the verge of dehydration I think she could wait. I agree that we need to teach our kids that while their needs are important and we will meet them, sometimes you have to wait and waiting patiently is important.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
WHY would you make a child wait 5 minutes for water when they are thirsty? There was NO reason the mother could not have walked her to the drinking fountain.

But go ahead and teach your children that their NEEDS mean nothing.

flan
Maybe because she refused to drink the perfectly good drink her mother wanted her to have before she came in? Maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything before her appointment? Maybe this kid continually drinks and has to pee at the most inconvenient times? Maybe she had JUST HAD a drink and mom didn't think she needed another?
Lots of possible reasons.

Maybe the kid asks for drinks as a tactic to interrupt the mom and get attention. My DD did this. "I am thirsty I need a drink!" Take her to the fountain and all she did was play in it or walk right past it and forget she was even thirsty.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
I have worked with the public for 35 years. I don't sit in an office (NO disrespect intended).

If she was MY daughter, I would never have made her cry like that.

flan

She should have already been taught not to cry like that public over a drink of water.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Here's the thing:

If you come to my library with your kids, you deserve a pleasant experience, one that makes you want to return.

Do you think hearing a young girl cry is pleasant?

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Oh, ffs...

Kids cry.

She was thirsty. She didn't want a toy from Target.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You quoted LL's post when you said it so if the insult fits why not just admit it flan?
Lily's post was also in there - and I did not think she was talking to me. That does not mean she is all innocent. But, considering Lily's posts lately, I find it extremely hypocritical to be calling anyone else a troll. And I've made it CLEAR previously how I feel about that when flan did it to you. So, the fact that someone thinks it is ok just boggles my mind.

Calling a regular poster a troll is what is done when you (general you) don't have a good answer to post. Calling names is never a good argument for any point.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
I have worked with the public for 35 years. I don't sit in an office (NO disrespect intended).

If she was MY daughter, I would never have made her cry like that.

flan

Yes you were the perfect parent. Your kids never cried for no reason, never threw temper tantrums and you jumped every time they wanted something...lol

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.

Next time I'll ban them...

SHE DID BEHAVE. Her mother was the one who aggravated the situation.

REMEMBER you were NOT there.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.
Next time I'll ban them...
SHE DID BEHAVE. Her mother was the one who aggravated the situation.
REMEMBER you were NOT there.
flan

Yes but you don't know what was going on before it happened but again you are psychic and know what's best even more than the parent does. Ok.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.
Next time I'll ban them...
SHE DID BEHAVE. Her mother was the one who aggravated the situation.
REMEMBER you were NOT there.
flan

A few weeks ago, there was a young girl in the children's room who told her mother that she was thirsty and asked her to take her to the water fountain. The mother ignored her. After 5 minutes, the girl was sobbing. The mother finally took her to get a drink. Why she had to put her through that is beyond me.

Doesn't sound like she was behaving to me. Sobbing because she couldn't get a drink of water? Really? My kids would have done that. ONCE. I would have been out of there in a heartbeat, and busted their ass in the parking lot...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No she wasn't behaving. Crying because you have to wait a few minutes is not behaving.

I know. Maybe mom should have just hugged her.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ignoring eejits gets easier & easier.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I have worked with the public for 35 years. I don't sit in an office (NO disrespect intended).

If she was MY daughter, I would never have made her cry like that.

flan
She should have already been taught not to cry like that public over a drink of water.

Isn't that how kids learn? By making mistakes in the first place?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.

I am always amazed at how we expect children to act like adults but continually excuse adults acting like children.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Ignoring eejits gets easier & easier.

flan

Bless your heart...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.
I am always amazed at how we expect children to act like adults but continually excuse adults acting like children.

By 5, a child should be able to understand no. And should know not to cry and make a scene in public.

Maybe the adult act that way because THEY didn't learn it before 5.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Girl should know better than behave like that in public at 5.
I am always amazed at how we expect children to act like adults but continually excuse adults acting like children.
By 5, a child should be able to understand no. And should know not to cry and make a scene in public.
Maybe the adult act that way because THEY didn't learn it before 5.

It's amazing at how well controlled you expect your kids to be. But, yet, you haven't led a perfect life. Why didn't YOU know better Lilly? Are you going to give your children space in life to make their own mistakes?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

BTW, Lilly I am NOT criticizing your mistakes. But, pointing out that you have experienced the love and forgiveness of Christ. So, do you have room for your children to make mistakes? Serious question.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I knew how to behave. I never made a scene in public.

Now I know you are trying to shame me. Sorry. Not going to work.

Want to talk abut me, my past and how I have raised my kids, remember it makes you and your fair game as well.