TOTALLY GEEKED!

Ohfour · Hooker

RE: United Airlines Customers Outraged After Being Put Up in Military Barracks

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And if it was so perfectly fine - why didn't the flight crew stay there, too?
What does that even matter? Maybe the hotel had 5 rooms. Which 5 passengers would get those rooms. They would have been more upset if they pick and chose passengers. Now, I'm not fan of United, AT ALL. But I think this situation was handled the best way possible...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Thursday 18th of June 2015 12:30:03 PM
Because if it is good enough for their passengers, it should have been good enough for the crew. Treating the passengers differently shows a disregard for them while the crew was in comfort. And which passengers? Draw straws, or do none, or pick the elderly or babies. NOT the crew.
Well, I would feel MUCH better if I knew that the crew got a descents night sleep, even at the expense of my own. I can sleep on the plane. They cannot. They need to be alert, I do not...

You don't get to have that argument both ways. Either the accomodations were perfectly acceptable or they were not - which is it?

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And if it was so perfectly fine - why didn't the flight crew stay there, too?
What does that even matter? Maybe the hotel had 5 rooms. Which 5 passengers would get those rooms. They would have been more upset if they pick and chose passengers. Now, I'm not fan of United, AT ALL. But I think this situation was handled the best way possible...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Thursday 18th of June 2015 12:30:03 PM
Because if it is good enough for their passengers, it should have been good enough for the crew. Treating the passengers differently shows a disregard for them while the crew was in comfort. And which passengers? Draw straws, or do none, or pick the elderly or babies. NOT the crew.
Well, I would feel MUCH better if I knew that the crew got a descents night sleep, even at the expense of my own. I can sleep on the plane. They cannot. They need to be alert, I do not...
You don't get to have that argument both ways. Either the accomodations were perfectly acceptable or they were not - which is it?

They may not have been to my taste, but they WERE accommodations. They had a bed. water, food, and a toilet. GTF over it and be glad your plane didn't go down in the middle in the ocean.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And if it was so perfectly fine - why didn't the flight crew stay there, too?
What does that even matter? Maybe the hotel had 5 rooms. Which 5 passengers would get those rooms. They would have been more upset if they pick and chose passengers. Now, I'm not fan of United, AT ALL. But I think this situation was handled the best way possible...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Thursday 18th of June 2015 12:30:03 PM
Because if it is good enough for their passengers, it should have been good enough for the crew. Treating the passengers differently shows a disregard for them while the crew was in comfort. And which passengers? Draw straws, or do none, or pick the elderly or babies. NOT the crew.
Well, I would feel MUCH better if I knew that the crew got a descents night sleep, even at the expense of my own. I can sleep on the plane. They cannot. They need to be alert, I do not...
You don't get to have that argument both ways. Either the accomodations were perfectly acceptable or they were not - which is it?
They may not have been to my taste, but they WERE accommodations. They had a bed. water, food, and a toilet. GTF over it and be glad your plane didn't go down in the middle in the ocean.

You do realize there is in between? That they could have provided explanations, time frames, information, etc. instead of just landing and disappearing? How would that make you feel to just be rounded up like cattle in the middle of nowhere and dumped at a military base? They didn't even know what was going on. It had to be terrifying.

Ohfour · Hooker

Yes, there IS an in between, you seem to be the one missing that. Your comment:" Either the accomodations were perfectly acceptable or they were not - which is it?" doesn't allow for an in between.

As far as being terrified? What, are you 6? They had cell phones, they weren't being held prisoner. They could have left. If I didn't like it, I know I would have.

DemoniaD · Senior Member

Pilots are required to have 8 (I believe that is the number) hrs of uninterrupted sleep to be able to fly. Do you really think they could have gotten that sleeping in the same area as the passengers?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

You are missing the point completely. These people were stranded in the middle of nowhere because United FAILED to properly maintain the airplane. THEN, United put them up in accomodations not deemed acceptable for their own crew. THEN, they failed COMPLETELY to communicate with the passengers.

They should have been COURTEOUS, at the very frickin' least, and they couldn't be bothered. They should have been apologetic beyond belief and instead they made excuses.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
You are missing the point completely. These people were stranded in the middle of nowhere because United FAILED to properly maintain the airplane. THEN, United put them up in accomodations not deemed acceptable for their own crew. THEN, they failed COMPLETELY to communicate with the passengers.

They should have been COURTEOUS, at the very frickin' least, and they couldn't be bothered. They should have been apologetic beyond belief and instead they made excuses.

Where are you getting that?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Are you even aware of the rest of the mess? That there were calling and being told a plane was on the way, but that one got grounded for maintenance issues, too? And another United flight from London landed in Goose Bay because of maintenance issues? THREE planes with maintenance issues grounding them at the same time. And Goose Bay is not even on their route so NO United personal there to deal with it.

THEN, when they got to New Jersey, it was even more of a mess because United apparently couldn't deal with seating all these people correctly.

The pilot deserves kudos because the plane could have crashed and he saved it. The airline, however? They SUCKED in their response.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/06/15/timeline-of-how-united-stranded-and-slowly-rescued-hundreds-in-goose-bay-canada/

Ohfour · Hooker

I just called G. He travels ALMOST every weekend. He says that 75% of his fights are delayed (the one from Houston was 6 /12 hours) because of maintenance issues. Most of his delays are about 3 hours. What do you want them to do? Fly them anyway?

Ohfour · Hooker

Are you even aware of the rest of the mess? That there were calling and being told a plane was on the way, but that one got grounded for maintenance issues, too?
So they should have flown it anyway?

And another United flight from London landed in Goose Bay because of maintenance issues?
Again, would you want it flown anyway?

THREE planes with maintenance issues grounding them at the same time. And Goose Bay is not even on their route so NO United personal there to deal with it.
So they should fly a damaged plane a longer distance just so United personnel can be available?

I think they handled it fine. I would just be glad to be alive...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I wouldn't fly United if you paid me to. Yes, of course - because they didn't die they have no right to expect common courtesy from the airline that almost got them killed.

DemoniaD · Senior Member

So what would you have done differently to make this go so much smoother?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

For one - I would have had an employee contact with those people at all times; the flight attendants are not needed to fly the plane. I would have put the flight crew with the passengers so that they did not feel abandoned. I would have flown in FRESH pilots. I would have arranged to have them flown directly to their destination instead of back to New Jersey to further complicate and delay their arrival to their destination. Most importantly, I would have communicated with them regularly and made them feel like they were cared for.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
For one - I would have had an employee contact with those people at all times; the flight attendants are not needed to fly the plane. I would have put the flight crew with the passengers so that they did not feel abandoned. I would have flown in FRESH pilots. I would have arranged to have them flown directly to their destination instead of back to New Jersey to further complicate and delay their arrival to their destination. Most importantly, I would have communicated with them regularly and made them feel like they were cared for.

By law:

(4) For airplanes having a seating capacity of more than 100 passengers—two flight attendants plus one additional flight attendant for each unit (or part of a unit) of 50 passenger seats above a seating capacity of 100 passengers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.391

And if it took another 2 days to get a pilot with the minimum required sleep time? Just let them stay there? There's not always an extra pilot on hand. That's why flights are cancelled...This is NOT that big of a deal!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
For one - I would have had an employee contact with those people at all times; the flight attendants are not needed to fly the plane. I would have put the flight crew with the passengers so that they did not feel abandoned. I would have flown in FRESH pilots. I would have arranged to have them flown directly to their destination instead of back to New Jersey to further complicate and delay their arrival to their destination. Most importantly, I would have communicated with them regularly and made them feel like they were cared for.
By law:
(4) For airplanes having a seating capacity of more than 100 passengers—two flight attendants plus one additional flight attendant for each unit (or part of a unit) of 50 passenger seats above a seating capacity of 100 passengers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.391
And if it took another 2 days to get a pilot with the minimum required sleep time? Just let them stay there? There's not always an extra pilot on hand. That's why flights are cancelled...This is NOT that big of a deal!

I said to FLY the plane. They could have slept just like the passengers and then still worked.

And I do not think the pilot that just went through the stress of almost crashing should be put back on flying the plane the next day.

ed11563 · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I just called G. He travels ALMOST every weekend. He says that 75% of his fights are delayed (the one from Houston was 6 /12 hours) because of maintenance issues. Most of his delays are about 3 hours. What do you want them to do? Fly them anyway?

I'd like them to do a much better job of maintaining their aircraft.

DemoniaD · Senior Member

So would you pull the pilots scheduled for another flight, delaying that one and inconveniencing more people, so they could fly this one? You would delay other planes that have takeoff/landing times scheduled so that flight could arrive straight from Goose Bay, again inconveniencing more people? And the flight attendants would be left to babysit the passengers, rather than get sufficient rest to take care of the needs of the pilot and the passengers on the next flight out? I'm not really seeing how that scenario is any better.

Ohfour · Hooker

ed11563 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I just called G. He travels ALMOST every weekend. He says that 75% of his fights are delayed (the one from Houston was 6 /12 hours) because of maintenance issues. Most of his delays are about 3 hours. What do you want them to do? Fly them anyway?
I'd like them to do a much better job of maintaining their aircraft.

It's not that simple. They cannot predict everything. Most of the time its animal or weather.

DemoniaD · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I just called G. He travels ALMOST every weekend. He says that 75% of his fights are delayed (the one from Houston was 6 /12 hours) because of maintenance issues. Most of his delays are about 3 hours. What do you want them to do? Fly them anyway?
I'd like them to do a much better job of maintaining their aircraft.

It's not that simple. They cannot predict everything. Most of the time its animal or weather.

Exactly. It is much more common for an aircraft, regardless of the airline, to land with an issue, than it is for them not to. Sometimes the plane is still flyable, sometimes the plane can make it to its destination before being grounded, and sometimes an emergency landing is required.

Edit to fix typo

-- Edited by DemoniaD on Thursday 18th of June 2015 02:33:05 PM

ed11563 · Guru

WOW, a jammed rudder?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I just called G. He travels ALMOST every weekend. He says that 75% of his fights are delayed (the one from Houston was 6 /12 hours) because of maintenance issues. Most of his delays are about 3 hours. What do you want them to do? Fly them anyway?
I'd like them to do a much better job of maintaining their aircraft.

It's not that simple. They cannot predict everything. Most of the time its animal or weather.

To have 3 planes grounded for maintenance issues at the same remote airport that is not part of their route is too much. That's not normal.

Ilumine · Regular

Here's my only point. I fly ALL of the time, to include United. I get flight notification email and SMS messages for all of these flights.

Can you HONESTLY tell me that United could not use the same system that notifies people that their plane has a timing change?

As for Hotels, there are only TWO that I could find. One only has 37 rooms and the other has 16 rooms. 53 rooms without knowing how many were already booked. How would YOU decide which passengers did not get to stay at the hotel?

burns07 · Guru

you keep focusing on the logistics of lodging--the pilot probably chose the CLOSEST alternate airport that was within company specs for the aircraft--his / her task was to return the aircraft safely to earth--which was accomplished--not to be some concierge regards the most comfortable accommodations--yes, the passengers were uncomfortable--yes, they were inconvenienced--but they were alive and unhurt

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

burns07 wrote:

you keep focusing on the logistics of lodging--the pilot probably chose the CLOSEST alternate airport that was within company specs for the aircraft--his / her task was to return the aircraft safely to earth--which was accomplished--not to be some concierge regards the most comfortable accommodations--yes, the passengers were uncomfortable--yes, they were inconvenienced--but they were alive and unhurt

I find the most unacceptable part the inability of the airline to communicate with the passengers.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I don't think anyone is faulting the pilot. I fault the airlines for not communicating with the passengers about what was going on, for not providing them adequate housing (if it's 32 degrees outside, I think you need heat and not just a blanket) and putting two adults in a single bed is ridiculous, and for not feeding them. They went 24 hours with only one meal. That's not appropriate treatment.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
I don't think anyone is faulting the pilot. I fault the airlines for not communicating with the passengers about what was going on, for not providing them adequate housing (if it's 32 degrees outside, I think you need heat and not just a blanket) and putting two adults in a single bed is ridiculous, and for not feeding them. They went 24 hours with only one meal. That's not appropriate treatment.

WHAT DID YOU WANT THEM TO DO?????????? There are TWO hotels there. Even those two, if they kicked everybody out would not fit all the passengers.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Turn the heat on, fix the heat if it was broken, communicate with the passengers, get more blankets, get them portable space heaters, feed them...there are lots of solutions here.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
Turn the heat on, fix the heat if it was broken, communicate with the passengers, get more blankets, get them portable space heaters, feed them...there are lots of solutions here.

And if there was nowhere to get those things? No one to fix it that night? The world does not bow to United. They are in the frickin middle of nowhere. Have you ever been there?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

This was an army barracks. Surely there were army people there who could fix their own equipment and deliver more blankets upon United's request.

And for enough money, anything is possible. Charter a private flight that has space heaters and blankets on board. There are ways to solve problems if only United cared enough to actually, you know, try.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
This was an army barracks. Surely there were army people there who could fix their own equipment and deliver more blankets upon United's request.

And for enough money, anything is possible. Charter a private flight that has space heaters and blankets on board. There are ways to solve problems if only United cared enough to actually, you know, try.

They were there less than a day. God, people are such pussies...

ed11563 · Guru

I keep thinking about the jammed rudder. They are lucky the pilot was able to maintain control and land. On the wheels. On a runway.

Japan Airlines lost a 747 when the rudder and vertical stabilizer fell off ... the pilots got it eventually to fly straight and level ... until some silly mountain got in the way.

Alaska Airlines lost a plane when the rudder jammed ... the pilots again managed to get to straight, level flight ... but upside down over the Pacific Ocean. They couldn't turn upright and couldn't maintain altitude.

The vertical stabilizer fell off of a new Airbus that had just taken off from JFK and ran into severe turbulence from a 747 that took off ahead of them. The pilots over-corrected with the rudder, and the plane crashed partly in Jamaica Bay (the tail) and partly in Far Rockaway, NY, south of the airport.

Remember the crash in Sioux Falls, South Dakota? Rudder fell off.

Those passengers are lucky that they are able to complain.