TOTALLY GEEKED!

Ohfour · Hooker

MICHIGAN POLICE SEIZE KIDS FROM FAMILY FOR ”CAMPING”

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

I couldn't copy it either, Oh4.

What a crock! CPS must have a screw loose!

huskerbb · Guru

We see the disagreement on here about what ages kids can be left alone. My problem is that people can't mind their own damn business. We've even had posters on here say they'd call the cops in such situations. Then we turn around and wonder why so many 20 and even 30'somethings still live at home. We dont teach responsibility.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Tuesday 16th of June 2015 01:48:16 PM

huskerbb · Guru

I dont call the cops on you--you dont call them on me.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Are you kidding? Most kids are trekking out in the woods to camp around 10 on their own.

DemoniaD · Senior Member

Last month, a Michigan family decided it would be fun to go camping for the summer, on a 10-acre plot of land they had recently purchased. Christopher and Antonia Hernandez wanted their six children to experience the outdoors, and get a taste for off-grid living. But after living in several large tents for 9 days, their rural experiment came to an abrupt end.

On May 19, the parents left the property to do laundry at a laundromat, as well as to buy food and some fencing for the animals. The younger children were left in the care of their 15-year-old son, who is nearly 16.

“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”

A CPS representative also was on the property, and had concerns about the living conditions. CPS made four allegations, according to the official court document:

The family was not in a “stable living environment.”
The family had no electricity or water source, and was using kerosene as a means of heat.
The children were playing in the woods, cared for by a 15 year old.
The youngest child had a diaper rash.
The 17-year-old girl, who has Cerebral Palsy, was cold.

The children, whose ages ranged from 7 months to 17 years, were promptly taken away from the parents by CPS and the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department. However, many of the reasons given for the seizure of these children don’t hold up. For one, the kids appear to have had everything they need. Their lifestyle was by no means “easy” according the standards of someone living on the grid, but they were in good hands.The family had a generator, and had purchased a pass to use the showers at a nearby state park. The multiple tents they were using were very large, and were sufficient to house the family and their belongings. They were also receiving an abundant supply of drinking water by filling 5-gallon jugs at Walmart, and collecting rainwater.

Ohfour · Hooker

Thank you Demonia!

TrudyML · Guru

Oh, my. I was babysitting infants at 13!

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I need more details. This doesn't sound like "camping". It sounds like they were homeless and living in the woods.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

The 16 year old is plenty old enough to watch kids but how many kids were there? How old. At least one was in diapers and at least one was handicapped.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I need more details. This doesn't sound like "camping". It sounds like they were homeless and living in the woods.

Homeless people don't usually buy 10 acres of land for the hell of it...

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

TrudyML wrote:
Oh, my. I was babysitting infants at 13!

I stayed at the neighbors farm, took care of all four children, oldest was 5 and youngest was 3 days old, for three days, at the age of 12.

People are such micro managers of others. The world is nuts.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Okay, so they owned ten acres and were just living in the woods for the summer. How many kids? What were their ages? One was in diapers and one was handicapped. If those were the only two the sixteen year old was watching it's one thing. If there were five more under the age of ten it could be a lot to handle.

Handicapped kids are a handful sometimes.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
The 16 year old is plenty old enough to watch kids but how many kids were there? How old. At least one was in diapers and at least one was handicapped.

Irrelevant on both counts.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

It's not irrelevant. I have a handicapped son. I know what he is capable of. I am a "grown up" and have really hard days sometimes.

Lindley · Guru

My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
It's not irrelevant. I have a handicapped son. I know what he is capable of. I am a "grown up" and have really hard days sometimes.

So what? That isn't for you to decide. That's the issue--busybodies vs. reasonable people.

Its not not like the parents were gone for 9 days. The baby didn't get the diaper rash in the couple of hours they were gone.

huskerbb · Guru

Christ, when I was 7 I'd take our three wheeler and go fishing with the neighbor kid and he was only 5.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.

People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.
People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.

Life with a handicapped child can be difficult, but having a 15 watch them while the parents do laundry and run errands does not mean they are neglected. Especially a 15 year old that has grown up with them and is related to them. Legally speaking, there is nothing that says the teen can't babysit. This whole thing is ridiculous.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.
People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.

Yup. Some people make it sound harder then it really is.

Our DD is very mentally handicapped and her siblings were perfectly capable of taking care of her at an early age. And they did.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.
People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.

Maybe WE don't--but the parents of that child undoubtedly do, yet you seem hell bent on insisting they are wrong here.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.
People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.
Yup. Some people make it sound harder then it really is.
Our DD is very mentally handicapped and her siblings were perfectly capable of taking care of her at an early age. And they did.

Yeah, cripes. Our kids played with your daughter all the time and never had any issues other than normal kid stuff.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

We cannot leave our handicapped son alone for long periods of time. Whenever we have tried it always ends up the same. With a phone call from the police. So if you think I am MAKING it sound harder than it is then believe whatever you want. I know my own situation. I don't know this family or who or what they are. And furthermore, if the kids were alone on ten acres then who knew to call? The parents must have told someone something to set off alarms. Don't blab your business to everyone and people won't know.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My nephew and his wife owns some land and they plan on going camping on it this summer. Per article the family owns the land and just plan on camping for the summer. They weren't neglecting their kids and making sure they had a place to shower and were washing clothes. cps took something that was a fun and learning experience for their children and turned it into a nightmare. Teens younger then 15 babysits. Is that next, Taking kids away because a teenager is babysitting them?

there are kids who have to live in horrible homes because cps does not want to break up a family or can't do anything until there is proof a child is abuse but a family going camping they swarm in.
People really do not understand life with a handicapped child.
Maybe WE don't--but the parents of that child undoubtedly do, yet you seem hell bent on insisting they are wrong here.

Show me where I said they were wrong. I said I had questions. It may have been perfectly safe. I don't know. I'd have to have more info.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
We cannot leave our handicapped son alone for long periods of time. Whenever we have tried it always ends up the same. With a phone call from the police. So if you think I am MAKING it sound harder than it is then believe whatever you want. I know my own situation. I don't know this family or who or what they are. And furthermore, if the kids were alone on ten acres then who knew to call? The parents must have told someone something to set off alarms. Don't blab your business to everyone and people won't know.

The handicapped child was NOT alone.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

The handicapped child was 17 and not alone! Big difference.

Our handicapped DD was never left alone either. That IS the difference.

And we lived on a farm out in the middle of nowhere.

Lindley · Guru

Sorry njn to be honest I didn't noticed they had a handicap child till I reread the article.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Alright, you all know better than me. I know nothing. Go ahead. I think there is more to this story than is being said.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lindley wrote:
Sorry njn to be honest I didn't noticed they had a handicap child till I reread the article.

Well, IMO as wrong as it may be, it depends on the severity of the handicapped child. Some are easier to care for than others. And the article doesn't state how many kids were being cared for. If this boy was JUST caring for the baby and the handicapped child I would probably say this was an over reaction. But it says the CHILDREN ranged in age from an infant to 17 which was the handicapped child. How many children are we talking about six? Eight? Ten?

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

I think there are a bunch of busy bodies with nothing better to do then make other peoples lives miserable.

Look out camp grounds. No camping with kids allowed anymore. Especially if you plan on letting your kids explore or walk alone, or ride a bike alone and the list can go on forever.

Yeah, this thread ticks me off.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Oh, and you can't camp for more than 9 days now either.

Judas priest. SMH

Lindley · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??

You are right the article is confusing. Maybe it is possible they are in the process of purchasing the land or renting it ??? There may be more to the story then what is being reported.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lexxy wrote:
“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??

This is what I TRIED to say when I got attacked. This does not sound like typical "camping" to me. They have a wonderful house that they live in but they had to go to a laundry mat to do their clothing? Too many inconsistencies in this story. I didn't say they were bad people but something doesn't sound right here. I need more information.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And if they OWNED that land they wouldn't need permission to camp on it.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??
This is what I TRIED to say when I got attacked. This does not sound like typical "camping" to me. They have a wonderful house that they live in but they had to go to a laundry mat to do their clothing? Too many inconsistencies in this story. I didn't say they were bad people but something doesn't sound right here. I need more information.

???? So someone else, who didn't know, tried to say they were squatters--and you believe them? Even after their right to be there was confirmed?

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
And if they OWNED that land they wouldn't need permission to camp on it.

If they are in the process of buying the land, then until they have the deed, yes, they need permission.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

My autistic 17 year old is home alone right now. Just him and the dogs.

I can tell you what he is doing too. He is either messing with his video games or cleaning something.

The thing to remember about handicapped people, they ain't all the same.

What one can't do, another has no problem.

This was a family camping trip. Sounds like they had everything taken care of for the 3 maybe 4 hours it took to wash clothes and pick up what they needed.

Who said something? Who made the call? Probably someone who knows them and knows what they are doing and thinks they know better.

People need to take care of their own crap and stop worrying so much about other people's crap.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
And if they OWNED that land they wouldn't need permission to camp on it.

Maybe they leased it. Maybe they did own it but the busybody neighbors hadnt heard the gossip, so the guy who sold it to them had to confirm it. Either way, they were in the RIGHT--yet you keep questioning that.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??
This is what I TRIED to say when I got attacked. This does not sound like typical "camping" to me. They have a wonderful house that they live in but they had to go to a laundry mat to do their clothing? Too many inconsistencies in this story. I didn't say they were bad people but something doesn't sound right here. I need more information.
???? So someone else, who didn't know, tried to say they were squatters--and you believe them? Even after their right to be there was confirmed?

I believe there is more to this story than is being reported. If the land owners, who are apparently not them RIGHT NOW whether they are buying the land or not, said they could camp out then they could camp out. But again, I believe there is more to this story than what is being said. Too many inconsistencies.

Just because someone writes something I don't have to take it at face value when it doesn't make sense to me. I am not a sheeple. I am allowed to questions things that don't seem right.

Lindley · Guru

The article at first said they purchased the land and then later said they received permission from the owner of the land to camp there. I agree that a family has every right to camp however long they want to and a 15 year old is capable of babysitting, but the article had down two different stories of who owned the land.

It is so hard to get cps to take children who live in horrible homes but they just come in to take kids away because their parents are gone a couple of hours? I question the reporter who wrote the article. I think there is a lot more to this story.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
Sorry njn to be honest I didn't noticed they had a handicap child till I reread the article.
Well, IMO as wrong as it may be, it depends on the severity of the handicapped child. Some are easier to care for than others. And the article doesn't state how many kids were being cared for. If this boy was JUST caring for the baby and the handicapped child I would probably say this was an over reaction. But it says the CHILDREN ranged in age from an infant to 17 which was the handicapped child. How many children are we talking about six? Eight? Ten?

Most state laws say one adult for every 8 children. So lower it for a 15 year old and say 5 kids.

It said they were playing in the woods. So at least 4 total counting the 15 year old.

I wonder how many times this has been the situation in the past? Bet it ain't the first time he has watched the kids while his parents did something.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I just think there is more to it than a family camping trip. I don't think CPS needed to be involved but someone called so they had to respond & follow procedure. I don't know if they did the right thing or not based on this article.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
“When we arrived back, the Otsego County Sheriff’s Department was at the property claiming to have received a report of squatters on the land,” Antonia said. “We provided documentation of our right to be on the land, which was verified the next day by the land owner.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is confusing. In one place it says they bought the land. Later she is quoted as saying they had permission & it was verified the next day by the land owner. So I am also of the impression thy might be homeless. Also they are filling their 5 gallon bottle at Walmart. What exactly does that mean? They are taking into the bathroom & stealing tap water??
This is what I TRIED to say when I got attacked. This does not sound like typical "camping" to me. They have a wonderful house that they live in but they had to go to a laundry mat to do their clothing? Too many inconsistencies in this story. I didn't say they were bad people but something doesn't sound right here. I need more information.
???? So someone else, who didn't know, tried to say they were squatters--and you believe them? Even after their right to be there was confirmed?
I believe there is more to this story than is being reported. If the land owners, who are apparently not them RIGHT NOW whether they are buying the land or not, said they could camp out then they could camp out. But again, I believe there is more to this story than what is being said. Too many inconsistencies.
Just because someone writes something I don't have to take it at face value when it doesn't make sense to me. I am not a sheeple. I am allowed to questions things that don't seem right.

How is it their fault that the writer didn't get some details right? It still would never justify calling CPS.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

just Czech wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
And if they OWNED that land they wouldn't need permission to camp on it.
If they are in the process of buying the land, then until they have the deed, yes, they need permission.

And as I have said multiple times, if they got permission they have every right to camp there. But the ORIGINAL article says they owned the land. Which apparently is not true. If whoever reporting it couldn't be bothered to get that fact straight then what other things did they get wrong?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

The article said 6 kids. Including the 15 1/2 yr old and 17 yr old.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
Sorry njn to be honest I didn't noticed they had a handicap child till I reread the article.
Well, IMO as wrong as it may be, it depends on the severity of the handicapped child. Some are easier to care for than others. And the article doesn't state how many kids were being cared for. If this boy was JUST caring for the baby and the handicapped child I would probably say this was an over reaction. But it says the CHILDREN ranged in age from an infant to 17 which was the handicapped child. How many children are we talking about six? Eight? Ten?
Most state laws say one adult for every 8 children. So lower it for a 15 year old and say 5 kids.
It said they were playing in the woods. So at least 4 total counting the 15 year old.
I wonder how many times this has been the situation in the past? Bet it ain't the first time he has watched the kids while his parents did something.

That is only for licensed day cares.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lexxy wrote:
I just think there is more to it than a family camping trip. I don't think CPS needed to be involved but someone called so they had to respond & follow procedure. I don't know if they did the right thing or not based on this article.

I agree Lexxy. I never said the family was WRONG. I simply said there was more to this than meets the eye.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I wonder who called. If they were truly out in the middle of nowhere the parents had to be running their mouths in town. Stupid of them.