TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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I find it amazing that some of the same people who give sympathy to parents who kill their kids by forgetting them in a car are the same ones that think not treating an ear infection with antibiotics is murder.

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 Two totally different situations. These parents didn't "forget" to take their child to a doctor.

flan

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 No.  They were actually caring for her.  She died of a freak spreading of a bacterial infection - not due to the actions of her parents. 

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 With herbal remedies...

flan

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 So?  I treat sore throats with chai tea or honey or salt water gargles.  What part of too many anti-biotics are bad for you don't you get?  And an ear infection being deadly is virtually unheard of.

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 Um, too many antibiotics wasn't the issue here.  The issue was not enough.  She would have LIVED had she gotten them.

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So?  This is nothing that millions of parents aren't doing every day.  People die.  It just happens. You can't predict every outcome.  

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 This one was predictable.

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Nope.  Not at all. The dr could not have predicted that this child would get this infection.  There is no way to predict that. 

huskerbb wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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just Czech wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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just Czech wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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They did not die of that. The kid did not get an ear infection because it wasn't vaccinated or hadn't had a well visit. The child died from an ear infection - which is virtually unheard of.

And something that 99.9% of ALL children get. Whether they see a doctor or not. 

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 And something that 99.9% of all children recover from without issue - whether they see a doctor or not.

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Do you have a source for that statement? 

flan

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Have you ever heard of a child dying from an ear infection before today?

I know I never have before today. 

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 Neither have I because they are EASILY TREATABLE with antibiotics.

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What part of "do not treat with antibiotics" do you not understand? Or are you above the AMA. 

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 so its better that this child died.  Got it.

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More children are dying BECAUSE of the antibiotics than are dying from ear infections. What can't you grasp about that? 

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 That is BS, and also irrelevant since this child would have lived had she gotten them.

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Then why are more and more doctors refusing to prescribe antibiotics to kids with ear infections?  Even if she had gone to the doctor, he may not have given her antibiotics.  In fact, he PROBABLY wouldn't have...

huskerbb wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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I find it amazing that some of the same people who give sympathy to parents who kill their kids by forgetting them in a car are the same ones that think not treating an ear infection with antibiotics is murder.

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 Two totally different situations. These parents didn't "forget" to take their child to a doctor.

flan

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 No.  They were actually caring for her.  She died of a freak spreading of a bacterial infection - not due to the actions of her parents. 

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 With herbal remedies...

flan

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 So?  I treat sore throats with chai tea or honey or salt water gargles.  What part of too many anti-biotics are bad for you don't you get?  And an ear infection being deadly is virtually unheard of.

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 Um, too many antibiotics wasn't the issue here.  The issue was not enough.  She would have LIVED had she gotten them.

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So?  This is nothing that millions of parents aren't doing every day.  People die.  It just happens. You can't predict every outcome.  

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 This one was predictable.

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Nope.  Not at all. The dr could not have predicted that this child would get this infection.  There is no way to predict that. 

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 You dont know that to be the case at all because they didn't even try that.

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Drs can't predict infections. This is something that's not even on the radar its so uncommon... 

Again, you don't know that at all. The pathologist and emergency room personnel who dealt with this case contradict you on every point.

Rhode Island Health Director Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott said Thursday that Hope's condition was a rare complication of a common bacteria, WPRI reports.

He described Hope's situation as a 'freak case,' saying the bacteria progressed more rapidly than it normally would.

Ohfour wrote:

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Rhode Island Health Director Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott said Thursday that Hope's condition was a rare complication of a common bacteria, WPRI reports.

He described Hope's situation as a 'freak case,' saying the bacteria progressed more rapidly than it normally would.

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 That happens when you don't do a damn thing

Giving children antibiotics for ear infections does little to speed their recovery while raising the risk of some side effects, according to a study published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The study found that 80 out of 100 otherwise healthy children would recover from an acute ear infection within a few days if given medication only to relieve pain or fevers. If all 100 were given antibiotics instead, 92 would be better in the same period, said Dr. Tumaini Coker, the study's lead author.

"But we would also expect three to 10 kids to develop rash and five to 10 to develop diarrhea," said Coker, a pediatrician at Mattel Children's Hospital at the University of California-Los Angeles.

Coker noted that the increased number of children in the study who benefited from treatment with antibiotics was similar to the number that could be expected to get side effects from the antibiotic treatment.

"Clinicians and parents need to know the benefits and side effects on how to manage their child's ear infection," Coker said.



the study was designed to review existing research on the topic for the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is in the process of revising its guidelines for treating uncomplicated acute otitis media -- ear infections that cause pain and fever. The pediatricians' group and the American Academy of Family Physicians have suggested since 2004 that "observation" -- avoiding antibiotics -- is an option for treating ear infections in otherwise healthy children.

Of the three basic types of ear infections, acute otitis media may benefit from antibiotics because it is often caused by a bacteria. But it also can be caused by a virus, which won't respond to antibiotics.

Another type of ear infection, otitis media with effusion, causes a buildup of fluid in the middle ear. That is also caused by a viral infection, against which antibiotics are ineffective. But antibiotics usually work for the third type, otitis externa, or "swimmer's ear."

Meh, it won't be long before no doctors are prescribing antibiotics for ear infections. Who will you blame then?

huskerbb wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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Giving children antibiotics for ear infections does little to speed their recovery while raising the risk of some side effects, according to a study published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The study found that 80 out of 100 otherwise healthy children would recover from an acute ear infection within a few days if given medication only to relieve pain or fevers. If all 100 were given antibiotics instead, 92 would be better in the same period, said Dr. Tumaini Coker, the study's lead author.

"But we would also expect three to 10 kids to develop rash and five to 10 to develop diarrhea," said Coker, a pediatrician at Mattel Children's Hospital at the University of California-Los Angeles.

Coker noted that the increased number of children in the study who benefited from treatment with antibiotics was similar to the number that could be expected to get side effects from the antibiotic treatment.

"Clinicians and parents need to know the benefits and side effects on how to manage their child's ear infection," Coker said.



the study was designed to review existing research on the topic for the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is in the process of revising its guidelines for treating uncomplicated acute otitis media -- ear infections that cause pain and fever. The pediatricians' group and the American Academy of Family Physicians have suggested since 2004 that "observation" -- avoiding antibiotics -- is an option for treating ear infections in otherwise healthy children.

Of the three basic types of ear infections, acute otitis media may benefit from antibiotics because it is often caused by a bacteria. But it also can be caused by a virus, which won't respond to antibiotics.

Another type of ear infection, otitis media with effusion, causes a buildup of fluid in the middle ear. That is also caused by a viral infection, against which antibiotics are ineffective. But antibiotics usually work for the third type, otitis externa, or "swimmer's ear."

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 yeah, what's one dead kid.  Nobody cares about that. 

 

You DO NOT KNOW whether any individual doctor would have prescri antibiotics or not.  None ever got the chance.

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 One dead kI'd is called a negligible percentage. 

I hate to sound cold but that is the truth.

In any illness, a certain percentage has to occur before it is considered for any reason.

Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

Ohfour wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

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 Exactly. Bloodletting and vibrators for hysterical women were "modern" at one time too...and more recently, so were tonsillectomies and being put to sleep to give birth. 

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What's wrong with vibrators for women?  Was the problem that they were labelled "hysterical"?

And hysterectomies. They were giving them to everyone in the 70's.

flan327 wrote:

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But this is 2015 & to say you "don't believe in modern medicine" is ignorant AND dangerous.

flan

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 But that is not what killed this child.  This child died of a freak infection that no one - not even doctors - would have predicted would come from the ear infection. 

I'm not going to talk about the antibiotic. I don't care what these people did concerning that. I'm going to say this and you can all judge me and call me a snob. But I am sick and damn tired of people having kids they can't take care of and afford. My SIL was living in a camper when she purposely got pregnant with her second. But it did help her get on welfare and food stamps. They lived with the six year old and the baby in the camper until the baby was eight months old.

There is a FB page, actually several, where I live for people in need and for moms. Every day there is a new sob story about some woman posting because she is pregnant with child number five, has no job, has no car, and her food stamps have run out. The other day some guy wrote on the page that he and his g/f who is nine months pregnant were sleeping in his parents backyard because her parents kicked them out. Every day it's something. Today there was a woman with a felony who couldn't find a low income apartment to rent with her felony record. And everyone is always looking for a free ride to the food bank too. I really truly get sick of reading this. I know people have hard times. I get it. But stop making bad decisions when you are in the middle of them.

Sorry, living in a camper is not a great option long term for raising kids. Yes, it's an alternative lifestyle. I get that. But almost always the people that are living in campers are NOT living there because they want to experience nature and raise wholesome kids. They're usually living there because they're broke and have no money and no job and no way to live in decent housing. So let's be honest about this. I don't think you have to have a huge mansion to raise kids. I DO think raising five kids in a camper isn't exactly wise. If that makes me a snob then so be it.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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I'm not going to talk about the antibiotic. I don't care what these people did concerning that. I'm going to say this and you can all judge me and call me a snob. But I am sick and damn tired of people having kids they can't take care of and afford. My SIL was living in a camper when she purposely got pregnant with her second. But it did help her get on welfare and food stamps. They lived with the six year old and the baby in the camper until the baby was eight months old.

There is a FB page, actually several, where I live for people in need and for moms. Every day there is a new sob story about some woman posting because she is pregnant with child number five, has no job, has no car, and her food stamps have run out. The other day some guy wrote on the page that he and his g/f who is nine months pregnant were sleeping in his parents backyard because her parents kicked them out. Every day it's something. Today there was a woman with a felony who couldn't find a low income apartment to rent with her felony record. And everyone is always looking for a free ride to the food bank too. I really truly get sick of reading this. I know people have hard times. I get it. But stop making bad decisions when you are in the middle of them.

Sorry, living in a camper is not a great option long term for raising kids. Yes, it's an alternative lifestyle. I get that. But almost always the people that are living in campers are NOT living there because they want to experience nature and raise wholesome kids. They're usually living there because they're broke and have no money and no job and no way to live in decent housing. So let's be honest about this. I don't think you have to have a huge mansion to raise kids. I DO think raising five kids in a camper isn't exactly wise. If that makes me a snob then so be it.

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 It doesn't make you a snob, it shows that you have common sense.

flan

Oh! Here's the inside of our friends camper....
Full kitchen, full bath.

flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

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QUESTIONING is one thing.

REJECTING ALL "modern medicine" (which is what these parents did) is ignorant.

What was the life expectancy in 1815? What is it now? What is the REASON for that?

flan 

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 No they didnt reject all medicine.  They took the child to the hospital.

TD a CAMPER and a MOBILE HOME are two entirely different things worlds apart.

Do I think there are nice campers out there? Sure. Great for raising five kids in? No. And the truth of the matter still stands that the majority of the people raising all these kids in campers are NOT raising them in campers that look like the one above. And the CAMPER, not mobile home, that these people were living in does not sound as if it had electricity or running water. And yes, I am well aware that campers can contain running water, electricity, nice beds, and full baths. Again, most of the people living these "alternative lifestyles" are not living in campers like the one above.

And, not running to the doctor for every sniffle doesn't make you a bad parent either. I would have to hear more information. Nobody really thinks their child is going to die from an ear infection so most people aren't going to take that like a 911 emergency.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

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QUESTIONING is one thing.

REJECTING ALL "modern medicine" (which is what these parents did) is ignorant.

What was the life expectancy in 1815? What is it now? What is the REASON for that?

flan 

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 No they didnt reject all medicine.  They took the child to the hospital.

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 When she stopped breathing...And the Mom STILL criticized the people who were trying to save the child's life!

flan

They also didn't seek treatment because of financial concerns as well. Of course you wonder why they were living in a camper? Did they have jobs or are they drug addicts?

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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They also didn't seek treatment because of financial concerns as well. Of course you wonder why they were living in a camper? Did they have jobs or are they drug addicts?

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 The dad has outstanding warrants for DUI so I am sure he can't get a job. Outstanding warrants doesn't sound like someone who is terribly employable. 

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 Hence living in a camper.

Funny how he could find money for booze, though...

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

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QUESTIONING is one thing.

REJECTING ALL "modern medicine" (which is what these parents did) is ignorant.

What was the life expectancy in 1815? What is it now? What is the REASON for that?

flan 

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 No they didnt reject all medicine.  They took the child to the hospital.

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 When she stopped breathing...And the Mom STILL criticized the people who were trying to save the child's life!

flan

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 Have you ever had to sit there and watch while they did all that stuff to your kid?  I had to make DH leave the room, he looked like he was getting ready to punch someone - and we believe in modern medicine.

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 Yes, when DS1 was 11 months old...and then when DS2 was 5. He had a cut over his eye, which was deep & needed stitches. He begged me to take him home, swore that he felt better. I didn't yell at the doctors or nurses.

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Actually, a person who DOESN'T question modern medicine is a fool.

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QUESTIONING is one thing.

REJECTING ALL "modern medicine" (which is what these parents did) is ignorant.

What was the life expectancy in 1815? What is it now? What is the REASON for that?

flan 

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 No they didnt reject all medicine.  They took the child to the hospital.

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 When she stopped breathing...And the Mom STILL criticized the people who were trying to save the child's life!

flan

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 Have you ever had to sit there and watch while they did all that stuff to your kid?  I had to make DH leave the room, he looked like he was getting ready to punch someone - and we believe in modern medicine.

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 Where is the part about her yelling?  As for criticizing she was probably saying please do something to save my kid.  But they could do no more.  But not sure why you would get mad at those trying to help you.