TOTALLY GEEKED!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

RE: Valedictorian barred from graduation

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

FNW wrote:
I said there are advantages to both. And academically, perhaps the older child has the advantage, hence the older valedictorians. But we get an earlier start, age-wise, in the real world. But I grew up in an era where kids started school at age 4 or 5 and maybe an occasional barely 6. Any older and you had a stigma.

These days, the stigma is on sending your child early. Most children are not ready for school and learning at 4. Some are, but most are not. Generally, kids are ready at 5. Some aren't ready until 6.

I think it's assuming a lot that just because the child is 6 they have an advantage. If their parents chose to hold them back, it doesn't mean that child will have an automatic advantage. How much of an advantage can it be to be ready for learning and not be allowed to go to school? That sounds like a disadvantage to me.

I really don't think the older child has an advantage. I think any advantage is negligible and by the time the kids are min middle school, that advantage turns into a disadvantage as they begin puberty sooner. By high school it's evened out.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
The biggest difference between private and public school is the ability to discipline and kick out problem kids. The classroom is about learning, not babysitting brats.
Yep! When a public school disciplines a kid their parent throws a fit and threatens to sue the school and they end up letting the brat back into class. Private school will kick you out and when that happens, they get to keep the tuition you paid.
Definitely.
That was my downfall. I was already a bit rebellious, but when I went from an all girls private school to the biggest public school in TN, the wrath of OhFour was unleashed. They didn't even call your parents when you missed a class! What the HECK????? And I could smoke in the bathrooms? And sleep in class? REALLY? I thought I had died and gone to heaven....
I pay for it to this day...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.

I agree. I also think that if he was acting out more than normal, he should have been given a recommendation to see the school counselor, considering his home life situation. After the school psychologist saw him, a behavior plan should have been implemented with strategies given to his teachers on how to help him modify his behavior. One would think the school would support him in his time of need instead of just punishing him.

As far as the speech goes, he should have been allowed to give it. He served the punishment for whatever the school thought he did wrong. It isn't right to punish him twice for the same crime.

FNW · Guru

Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know because the school can't say. I prefer to hear both sides before making judgment.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.

Its all done in the name of "level" playing field. The school cannot take into consideration that the kid's father died. Only the behavior exhibited in school. Its as though today's society says to disregard the whole picture, only focus on the school's involvement with the kid. Because it wouldn't be FAIR to the other kid's whose parents didn't die during the school year. Sad.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.
Its all done in the name of "level" playing field. The school cannot take into consideration that the kid's father died. Only the behavior exhibited in school. Its as though today's society says to disregard the whole picture, only focus on the school's involvement with the kid. Because it wouldn't be FAIR to the other kid's whose parents didn't die during the school year. Sad.

That's just it - the kid has the highest GPA even with all this. So, how is taking away his honor fair? You telling me no other kid talked back or got mouthy? What did they take away from those kids?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.
I agree. I also think that if he was acting out more than normal, he should have been given a recommendation to see the school counselor, considering his home life situation. After the school psychologist saw him, a behavior plan should have been implemented with strategies given to his teachers on how to help him modify his behavior. One would think the school would support him in his time of need instead of just punishing him.
As far as the speech goes, he should have been allowed to give it. He served the punishment for whatever the school thought he did wrong. It isn't right to punish him twice for the same crime.

When he went to see the school counselor, she accused him of threatening her b/c he said he wanted to solve this issue peacefully.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Either this school severely over reacted or we aren't getting the full story. And I'm inclined to believe we aren't getting the whole thing. Just the spin the valedictorian & his supporters want us to hear.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.
I agree. I also think that if he was acting out more than normal, he should have been given a recommendation to see the school counselor, considering his home life situation. After the school psychologist saw him, a behavior plan should have been implemented with strategies given to his teachers on how to help him modify his behavior. One would think the school would support him in his time of need instead of just punishing him.
As far as the speech goes, he should have been allowed to give it. He served the punishment for whatever the school thought he did wrong. It isn't right to punish him twice for the same crime.
When he went to see the school counselor, she accused him of threatening her b/c he said he wanted to solve this issue peacefully.

That was after the speech was taken away and he went on his own I thought. I think he should have been referred when the trouble started.

FNW · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
Either this school severely over reacted or we aren't getting the full story. And I'm inclined to believe we aren't getting the whole thing. Just the spin the valedictorian & his supporters want us to hear.

I agree.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Going back to the OP - any advantage he had over being slightly older was certainly wiped away when his father died at the start of his senior year of high school. Speaking from experience - that can throw you for quite a loop and make you do things you might not otherwise do. I admire that he was able to keep it together.
I agree. I also think that if he was acting out more than normal, he should have been given a recommendation to see the school counselor, considering his home life situation. After the school psychologist saw him, a behavior plan should have been implemented with strategies given to his teachers on how to help him modify his behavior. One would think the school would support him in his time of need instead of just punishing him.
As far as the speech goes, he should have been allowed to give it. He served the punishment for whatever the school thought he did wrong. It isn't right to punish him twice for the same crime.
When he went to see the school counselor, she accused him of threatening her b/c he said he wanted to solve this issue peacefully.
That was after the speech was taken away and he went on his own I thought. I think he should have been referred when the trouble started.

What trouble? He had ONE instance of talking back to a teacher on his discipline record. A substitute at that. And he served the detention for it.

What the hell? It school only for stepford children these days? Don't talk, don't think, don't have differing opinions?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Not at all. I actually think you and I agree so I am not understanding the hostility in your post LL. I think if the school thought he was causing trouble, they should have referred him to the school psychologist (NOT the guidance counsellor) to make sure he was ok considering his father just died.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Not at all. I actually think you and I agree so I am not understanding the hostility in your post LL. I think if the school thought he was causing trouble, they should have referred him to the school psychologist (NOT the guidance counsellor) to make sure he was ok considering his father just died.

I'm just projecting my entire frustration over the assumptions on this thread. Sorry. I think you and I do agree.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

FNW wrote:
Yes, they were 5. Their birthday is end of June.

So how are "standards" applied? In other words, are standards based on grade level, or age, or both? At some level, there is a curve, or comparison.

I could care less about sports. If I cared, they would have been red shirted.

You seem to be the only person here talking about "redshirting".

FNW · Guru

That's the term they use for holding children back these days.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
That's the term they use for holding children back these days.

I've heard that. It came from college sports teams that don't let their freshmen play so they can be 5th year seniors.

But it's often used now to mean holding back any child...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
FNW wrote:
That's the term they use for holding children back these days.
I've heard that. It came from college sports teams that don't let their freshmen play so they can be 5th year seniors.
But it's often used now to mean holding back any child...

I had never heard it.

flan

chef · Guru

I thought his speech was inspiring and it would be I'd love to hear in person.

I don't think age really matters when it comes to school. I think the school and home environments matter more. Kids who are encouraged to succeed both in school and at home will do better.

I was 18 when I graduated. I don't remember how old I was when I started. I had 2 years of preschool and skipped kindergarten. I didn't start to truly excel in school until I was in a school environment that supported my learning. My parents supported my learning throughout school but having a negative school environment really affected me.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
FNW wrote:
That's the term they use for holding children back these days.
I've heard that. It came from college sports teams that don't let their freshmen play so they can be 5th year seniors.
But it's often used now to mean holding back any child...
I had never heard it.
flan

This always amazes me. It's such a part of my life, I forget that some people don't even know what it is. Red-Shirt Freshman is a normal part of my vocabulary...

FNW · Guru

I hadn't either, until I asked the neighborhood about the bus system. I asked because I knew many mothers who were holding their children back, children who were in pre-school with my boys, and figured maybe they were concerned about their 5 or 6 year olds riding the bus. I wondered if there was a reason I should be concerned as well. I couldn't think of any other reason for holding them back, when one mother came forward and told me about this "red shirting". It did start out as sports-related but this was the term she used in general for holding children back. (She was against it,BTW). I had never heard of it before and was pretty surprised that parents were doing this. The thought of waiting had never occurred to me.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
I hadn't either, until I asked the neighborhood about the bus system. I asked because I knew many mothers who were holding their children back, children who were in pre-school with my boys, and figured maybe they were concerned about their 5 or 6 year olds riding the bus. I wondered if there was a reason I should be concerned as well. I couldn't think of any other reason for holding them back, when one mother came forward and told me about this "red shirting". It did start out as sports-related but this was the term she used in general for holding children back. (She was against it,BTW). I had never heard of it before and was pretty surprised that parents were doing this. The thought of waiting had never occurred to me.

The use of this sporting term for delaying kindergarten is not appropriate IMO. In college, athletes often take 5 years to graduate b/c of all the sporting requirements, so they "redshirt" the freshmen so they will be able to play the last 4 years they are there instead of the first 4.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

They also redshirt if they get injured so they do not "waste" a year of eligibility while they are injured. There are very very strict limitations on athletes who redshirt. They have restrictions on what they can do athletically with the team, travel is restricted, and so on. It certainly is NOT typically done so someone can just grow bigger and be stronger. It is done carefully taking eligibility, health and class work into consideration. If you redshirt your freshman year in order to do school work, and then on day 2 of practice the next year you get a season ending injury, you cannot redshirt again. You lose a year of eligibility. So it must be done very purposefully.

FNW · Guru

I'm just repeating what I've been told. It's a phrase which has become universal for holding someone back from attending school. Don't shoot the messenger.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Never heard the term before this storm fire started!

Ohfour · Hooker

What is WRONG with you people???? Do you not watch college football AT ALL?????? What do you DO on Saturdays in the fall? I mean seriously... wink wink wink

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

FNW wrote:
I hadn't either, until I asked the neighborhood about the bus system. I asked because I knew many mothers who were holding their children back, children who were in pre-school with my boys, and figured maybe they were concerned about their 5 or 6 year olds riding the bus. I wondered if there was a reason I should be concerned as well. I couldn't think of any other reason for holding them back, when one mother came forward and told me about this "red shirting". It did start out as sports-related but this was the term she used in general for holding children back. (She was against it,BTW). I had never heard of it before and was pretty surprised that parents were doing this. The thought of waiting had never occurred to me.

Well, that's fine and dandy and may be YOUR experience. But, I honestly can't say I have met any mothers in my area who started their sons late because of sports.

Ohfour · Hooker

Come to the land where high school football on Fridays is as important as going to church and College Football Saturday is MORE important than going to church.

It happens a LOT here...

FNW · Guru

Here, too.

FNW · Guru

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirting_(academic)

parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/redshirting-kindergarten-age-kids-can-lead-to-regrets/

onpoint.wbur.org/2014/09/16/redshirting

www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

DemoniaD wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
DemoniaD wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
DemoniaD wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
DemoniaD wrote:
Well by all means, he got the grades, so who cares if he is the best candidate to deliver the speech? Heaven forbid we break tradition, and try to find the best qualified. We wouldn't want to hurt his feelings honoring him by recognizing only his academic achievements at the ceremony.

He "earned" it. We used to have a thing about "earning" something. Remember?
He earned his grades. He earned the recognition for those grades. No one is taking away the honor of that. How exactly does getting the best grades make one most deserving of speaking? Because that's just how it's always done? Giving it for the sake of tradition isn't exactly earning it.
It's part of the "honor" of being Valedictorian. I can't help you if you can't understand that.
So tradition is how he earned it then. Got it.
And, the problem with tradition is WHAT exactly?
That, in this case, the "reward" (speaking) it wasn't actually earned. The school puts on the ceremony for the entire graduating class. If they wish to bestow the honor of speaking on the honor student with minimal disciplinary infractions, and is best suited for speaking, what is the problem with that? What exactly is wrong with bestowing an honor on the most deserving based on merits and not traditions?

You are not making ANY sense.

The most deserving based on merits IS THIS KID.

And how on earth do you judge "best suited for speaking'?

The school made a mistake. They achieved NOTHING positive with this move.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly. Not making any sense. The point of valedictorian is that it is MERIT based.