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Post Info TOPIC: Dear Miss Manners: Are Flip Flops Shoes?


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Dear Miss Manners: Are Flip Flops Shoes?
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DEAR MISS MANNERS: In a restaurant where there is a sign that states "No shirt, no shoes, no service," why are people allowed in to eat wearing sandals or flip-flops? You know, the flip-flops that we used to wear when we went to the swimming pool.

I see people all the time wearing flip-flops in restaurants. I thought the sign meant if you do not have shoes on, you will not get served. But I see now that most restaurants do not have that sign up like they used to.

GENTLE READER: Do you have any idea what it is like to establish any sort of dress code nowadays?

Employers direct their workers to dress professionally, in terms of whatever the particular profession happens to be. Hosts beg their guests to dress up for their important occasions. Schools issue rules banning vulgar and bigoted outfits. Businesses try to establish a tone they expect their customers to follow.

And what does it get them? Code violators who consider themselves to be fighting -- sometimes with lawsuits -- for the noble cause of freedom of expression.

It appears that only clubs with rough bouncers are able to inspire people to dress symbolically for the activity in which they are engaged.

So Miss Manners doesn't wonder that those who write such codes back away from battles over strict enforcement, especially over such hair-splitting questions as what constitutes a shoe. Perhaps if they notice they are losing customers who want a more dignified -- or less smelly -- atmosphere, they will act.

Or they could just hire a toughie to stand at the door, pronouncing people "tacky" and turning them away. Then the lines will form around the block.

http://www.uexpress.com/miss-manners/2015/7/5/dress-code-quandary-are-flip-flops-shoes

 



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Let's see:

You wear flip flops on your FEET, so they must be...

flan

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I really dont' care what other people are wearing. Who cares? If they look like an idiot, that's their problem!

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I really dont' care what other people are wearing. Who cares? If they look like an idiot, that's their problem!


 Well sure but please keep the "shirts required" sign up.



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I really dont' care what other people are wearing. Who cares? If they look like an idiot, that's their problem!


 Well sure but please keep the "shirts required" sign up.


Oh, I agree.  We need less exposure, not more!  Especially at the beach.  Why not full body swimsuits for those uggos! 



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I really dont' care what other people are wearing. Who cares? If they look like an idiot, that's their problem!


 Well sure but please keep the "shirts required" sign up.


We had an older guy at the library Thursday, who was wearing a long-sleeve white shirt...completely unbuttoned. He was sitting at a computer, so you couldn't see that much...but still.

flan



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One of the reasons restaurants require shoes is so folks won't step on something, get hurt, and sue the restaurant.

Anything that comes between your sole and the floor qualifies as a shoe in my book.

Let's all strap on telephone books to our bare feet with bungee cords.



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I'm always amazed at what people wear in the clubhouse at our country club. But golfers are still required to wear collared shirts on the course and this is strictly enforced. The men usually look better than the women.

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I think some signs should be worded "appropriate dress". The flip flops you got at your last pedi might be fine at Applebee's but perhaps not at a 5 star french restaurant.

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People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.

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Oh and the no shoes, no shirt is about health code.

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I agree, people don't know how to dress. One can be casual yet still be appropriate.

Personally, flip flops are something I wear to the pool.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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In the summer, I wear flip flops to work every day. There ARE nice dressy ones.

flan

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I'm going to a training class for the next couple weeks and they have a dress code where it is being held. They even go so far as to say no sandals.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 Well then a number of footwear would not be considered shoes then? Anything with open toes or sling back heels are out.  

That would never work here in the south.  



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Yeah. I grew up where it is better to over dress than under dress.

Heck you still see women wearing panty hose in the summer with their sandals here.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

Yeah. I grew up where it is better to over dress than under dress.

Heck you still see women wearing panty hose in the summer with their sandals here.


 I can't tell you the last time I saw a woman wearing hose.

flan



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Well here, it is still concidered how a woman dresses, especially in the older women.

Bet you don't see hats either. But church hats are still around here.

And white is only from Easter to Labor day. And that goes for sandals and flip flops too.

Of course that is changing.

I remember going to church as a girl, in the summer, and having to wear hose. I'd always manage a run in those things and have to take them off. Haha...



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lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Yeah. I grew up where it is better to over dress than under dress.

Heck you still see women wearing panty hose in the summer with their sandals here.


 I can't tell you the last time I saw a woman wearing hose.

flan


 I would wear them if going to the ballet or opera.  Or an evening wedding.  Black hose to a black-tie event.



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Depends on where you're going. Sorry, McDonald's doesn't require anything more than nice flip flops. Especially if you're going through the drive through. Basically you should dress according to where you are going. I have some really nice flip flops, called switch flops, that I used to wear all the time. Now I found my dream shoe.

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If you're at the beach, it's acceptable in most crab shacks and grocery stores. Heck, barefoot is acceptable in some of those places in Cali. Or at least they were back when I was growing up.

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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.


 You were saying that high heels should be the only option and that a flat couldn't be dressy.

 

 



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FNW wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Yeah. I grew up where it is better to over dress than under dress.

Heck you still see women wearing panty hose in the summer with their sandals here.


 I can't tell you the last time I saw a woman wearing hose.

flan


 I would wear them if going to the ballet or opera.  Or an evening wedding.  Black hose to a black-tie event.


 Finding true black hose wasn't and isn't always easy. 

Colored hose was fun for a while. But if your over 40, pink hose isn't really a look to go for.

Oh a patterns. Those were fun. But not for church or anything like that.



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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.


 What a gaslighter you are.  You did not rally against flip-flops, you went off on women wearing flats vs heels.   A vast difference and you are still wrong about that. 



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Reading this thread makes me so thankful that I work at a place with a casual dress code!

flan

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Ilumine wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.


 What a gaslighter you are.  You did not rally against flip-flops, you went off on women wearing flats vs heels.   A vast difference and you are still wrong about that. 


  



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My right foot is deformed and makes it so I cannot wear anything but sandals. It's very rare that I find a closed-in shoe that doesn't hurt my foot. Thankfully, most places are accommodating once they see my foot.

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chef wrote:

My right foot is deformed and makes it so I cannot wear anything but sandals. It's very rare that I find a closed-in shoe that doesn't hurt my foot. Thankfully, most places are accommodating once they see my foot.


You've probably tried this already, for forgive me for jumping in if my suggestion is out of place, but ...

 

Spouse's feet are VERY swollen with edema (yes, she's seeing doctors, they're not very helpful so far),

The shoes our local orthotist / orthopedic shoe expert put her into are extra depth, extra wide shoes from P.E.Minor.

Just an idea, I don't know whether it's worth your time to look into it.

 

 



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Ilumine wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.


 What a gaslighter you are.  You did not rally against flip-flops, you went off on women wearing flats vs heels.   A vast difference and you are still wrong about that. 


No, it was flip-flops vs. heels.  The entire thing started when I noticed a bunch of young women wearing flip-flops at a formal occasion.   



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lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

People don't know how to dress for what they are doing now.

And no. Technically, flip flops are not shoes. Shoes cover the foot.

Of course where you are makes a difference. Several years ago one of the local girls sports teams got to go to the White House and meet President Bush. There was a small uproar when the picture made the papers and all but 3-4 of the girls had on flip flops. Nice skirts and tops. But flip flops. And not the pretty dressy kind.

However, I wear easy on and off shoes. Usually a flip flop in the Summer. But I do have real shoes if I need them. Of course those ain't pretty either any more.


 I railed against this a number of months ago--and at that time everyone seemed to think you should be able to wear whatever you want no matter what the occasion.


 You were saying that high heels should be the only option and that a flat couldn't be dressy.

 

 


Re-read the original post.  It all started when a bunch of young women were wearing flip-flops at a formal occasion.   



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But heels are classier than flats. I won't disagree on that point.

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ed11563 wrote:
chef wrote:

My right foot is deformed and makes it so I cannot wear anything but sandals. It's very rare that I find a closed-in shoe that doesn't hurt my foot. Thankfully, most places are accommodating once they see my foot.


You've probably tried this already, for forgive me for jumping in if my suggestion is out of place, but ...

 

Spouse's feet are VERY swollen with edema (yes, she's seeing doctors, they're not very helpful so far),

The shoes our local orthotist / orthopedic shoe expert put her into are extra depth, extra wide shoes from P.E.Minor.

Just an idea, I don't know whether it's worth your time to look into it.

 

 


I got orthotics once. They caused intense pain. I do appreciate the suggestion though :)



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chef wrote:

 


I got orthotics once. They caused intense pain. I do appreciate the suggestion though :)


The person who fitted you really screwed it up. You should NOT have pain from them!

 



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Sounds like the person in the OP had a bad experience with hobbit toes!

Sandals, "flip-flops" are fine in most restaurants or at most occasions. Bear in mind that "Flip flops" have a wide range of looks. There's the standard rubber ones (or whatever they're made of, usually come in S M L XL) which are probably only suitable at very casual venues, but their are also sandals that use the flip-flop design, but are of higher quality material and more fitted.

Most dress codes in public areas address health code or insurance liability issues.

chef wrote:

My right foot is deformed and makes it so I cannot wear anything but sandals. It's very rare that I find a closed-in shoe that doesn't hurt my foot. Thankfully, most places are accommodating once they see my foot.


Wear what you want, but I live in No. MN., and there are all manner of foot issues here. They all have shoes that are not sandals or flip flops.  just sayin'... wear what you want, but own it.

 

 



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ed11563 wrote:
chef wrote:

 


I got orthotics once. They caused intense pain. I do appreciate the suggestion though :)


The person who fitted you really screwed it up. You should NOT have pain from them!

 


The person who fitted me did a good job. My right foot is shaped like an upside down L - it curves inward around the arch. The orthotics were supposed to hold my foot correctly in the shoe - they did - but they were too painful to wear because they were forcing my foot into an unnatural (for it) position. 



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ladyloonatic wrote:

Sounds like the person in the OP had a bad experience with hobbit toes!

Sandals, "flip-flops" are fine in most restaurants or at most occasions. Bear in mind that "Flip flops" have a wide range of looks. There's the standard rubber ones (or whatever they're made of, usually come in S M L XL) which are probably only suitable at very casual venues, but their are also sandals that use the flip-flop design, but are of higher quality material and more fitted.

Most dress codes in public areas address health code or insurance liability issues.

chef wrote:

My right foot is deformed and makes it so I cannot wear anything but sandals. It's very rare that I find a closed-in shoe that doesn't hurt my foot. Thankfully, most places are accommodating once they see my foot.


Wear what you want, but I live in No. MN., and there are all manner of foot issues here. They all have shoes that are not sandals or flip flops.  just sayin'... wear what you want, but own it.

 

 


Good for them! That's awesome and I'm happy for them.

I do own my injury but that doesn't stop me from being thankful re places being accommodating. 



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If I had to wear hose to go somewhere - I would reconsider going. I hate hose. With a passion. That said, I would wear them to a wedding, funeral, etc but I wouldn't be happy.

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Mellow Momma wrote:

If I had to wear hose to go somewhere - I would reconsider going. I hate hose. With a passion. That said, I would wear them to a wedding, funeral, etc but I wouldn't be happy.


During WWII, when nylon was being use almost exclusively for parachutes, 

Ladies would simulate stockings on their legs ...

by using an eyebrow pencil to draw a faint line up the back of each leg that would look like the seam of their nylons.



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I loved the ones with seams. Of course you had to get them straight or they looked stupid.

Honestly, I go barefoot more often than not.

In fact my kids are under orders not to bury me with shoes on. Bra either.


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I like sneakers. I wear sandals once in awhile. I can't stand my feet being cold. And, I don't like having my toes exposed.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I like sneakers. I wear sandals once in awhile. I can't stand my feet being cold. And, I don't like having my toes exposed.


 That's so funny! I don't like my toes confined! I hate socks. With a burning passion. 



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I don't think I wear anything but flip flops all summer. They are nice ones, but they are thongs with a slight heel.

I only took flip flops to Niagara Falls. Boy was THAT a mistake. Walking miles in them is not good. G admonished me the whole time for not bringing tennis shoes. When I went to pack for the lake this past weekend, a pair of tennis shoes was already in my bag. He's won't let me "forget" again...

I also wear different ones almost every day. I have over 50 pairs...

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Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I like sneakers. I wear sandals once in awhile. I can't stand my feet being cold. And, I don't like having my toes exposed.


 That's so funny! I don't like my toes confined! I hate socks. With a burning passion. 


 I haven't worn sock for years. 



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Ohfour wrote:

I don't think I wear anything but flip flops all summer. They are nice ones, but they are thongs with a slight heel.

I only took flip flops to Niagara Falls. Boy was THAT a mistake. Walking miles in them is not good. G admonished me the whole time for not bringing tennis shoes. When I went to pack for the lake this past weekend, a pair of tennis shoes was already in my bag. He's won't let me "forget" again...

I also wear different ones almost every day. I have over 50 pairs...


 I have a lot too! Some dressy, some for the beach. If I am going to do a lot of walking I wear Keens or Tevas. 



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