TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: Planned Parenthood doctor caught on camera saying things that have many people very upset

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Even if somehow abortion was no longer legal...women would still find ways to get rid of unwanted pregnancies.

flan

You say this as if it justifies abortion.

It doesnt.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Even as a hoax this was sick.

huskerbb · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
I am pro choice but this is so disgusting I almost puked my lunch. And she talks about it so blasé while eating a salad. She is a special type of monster.

This IS abortion. It's not tiddly-winks and fairy farts. If you are pro-choice, this is EXACTLY what you are advocating for. Abortion is ALWAYS ugly. It ALWAYS results in pain and suffering. It's ALWAYS motivated by selfishness and often greed.

You can't just say--well, I'm for the "good" abortions. That's patently absurd. Either you are for abortion and all its ugliness, or you aren't.

If you are for it--embrace it. This is what you want.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but I abhor abortion. I hope they choose not to.

weltschmerz · Guru

I have a question. Many of you have children. Imagine, if you will, that your child is diagnosed with a terminal illness. There is a cure. Upon further investigation, you learn that the cure has come about because of medical research using human tissue samples, including embryonic tissue.
ARE YOU GOING TO TURN IT DOWN?
Are you going to let your child die? Be honest.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
Being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but I abhor abortion. I hope they choose not to.

THANK YOU.

I cannot make that choice for another person.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

weltschmerz wrote:
I have a question. Many of you have children. Imagine, if you will, that your child is diagnosed with a terminal illness. There is a cure. Upon further investigation, you learn that the cure has come about because of medical research using human tissue samples, including embryonic tissue.
ARE YOU GOING TO TURN IT DOWN?
Are you going to let your child die? Be honest.

No. I don't know anyone who would.

Does that mean the same parent should have a crisis of conscience over it either?

I don't know of a single organ or tissue recipient who doesn't think about where it came from now and then.

And just because it's going to save a life, doesn't mean it can't be repulsive.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
I have a question. Many of you have children. Imagine, if you will, that your child is diagnosed with a terminal illness. There is a cure. Upon further investigation, you learn that the cure has come about because of medical research using human tissue samples, including embryonic tissue.
ARE YOU GOING TO TURN IT DOWN?
Are you going to let your child die? Be honest.

You question really doesn't make sense. Cures generally come about through years and years of research through lots of avenues and people. So, what are you asking exactly? Are you asking that in the event that an aborted fetus is curable, would you then opt to use it? Is that the question? Which still is a ridiculous question, because there isn't ANYBODY a mother bear wouldn't kill to save her cub. Which actually PROVES that the natural instinct of a mother is to Choose Life versus a mother who is CHOOSING to end her baby's life. So, what is your point? The disconnect isn't the person accepting treatment for her child. The disconnect is the mother who would voluntarily end her child's life in the first place.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Abortion has always been horrible. The fact that it takes this for people to see it is also horrible.

I mean, really - what difference does what she said make? The babies are still aborted. They are still ripped apart. She is just doing it more carefully so she can sell the parts when it is done. It was horrid before - this hardly makes it worse.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
Being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but I abhor abortion. I hope they choose not to.

BS. You can't have it both ways.

ed11563 · Guru

This all keeps coming back to "At what point in gestation does a fertilized ovum become a child?"

Many say, at the moment of fertilization,

others say at birth,

others say when it's viable.

I think the whole controversy stems from that.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

ed11563 wrote:
This all keeps coming back to "At what point in gestation does a fertilized ovum become a child?"
Many say, at the moment of fertilization,
others say at birth,
others say when it's viable.

I think the whole controversy stems from that.

Science SAYS, life begins at conception, period.

Science is also reaffirming that the baby feels pain before 20 weeks gestation. Some are saying as early as 14 weeks.

Viability does not negate pain. Abortion causes extreme pain for the child. How anyone can justify inflicting a cruel and painful death is beyond my scope of understanding.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

WYSIWYG wrote:
Being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but I abhor abortion. I hope they choose not to.

Pro choice= being okay with a woman choosing to abort= being okay with abortion.

Gosh fence sitters are such a big pet peeve of mine.

burns07 · Guru

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life

huskerbb · Guru

burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life

It's not just her body.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Exactly, and I would like to ask people who say they don't like abortion but are pro choice, what specifically is it that you don't like about abortion? Because the only thing I can think of is that you agree it's the taking of a baby's life, otherwise why have any feelings on it either way? And if you do feel it's the taking of a life, how can you possibly even think it's okay for someone to have the right to choose to do such a thing?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yup

Ohfour · Hooker

It's all about the liberal "me" mantra. They don't care who gets hurt, as long as they are comfortable and their needs are met before anyone else's. How else would a mother justify killing her child...

weltschmerz · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
I have a question. Many of you have children. Imagine, if you will, that your child is diagnosed with a terminal illness. There is a cure. Upon further investigation, you learn that the cure has come about because of medical research using human tissue samples, including embryonic tissue.
ARE YOU GOING TO TURN IT DOWN?
Are you going to let your child die? Be honest.
You question really doesn't make sense. Cures generally come about through years and years of research through lots of avenues and people. So, what are you asking exactly? Are you asking that in the event that an aborted fetus is curable, would you then opt to use it? Is that the question? Which still is a ridiculous question, because there isn't ANYBODY a mother bear wouldn't kill to save her cub. Which actually PROVES that the natural instinct of a mother is to Choose Life versus a mother who is CHOOSING to end her baby's life. So, what is your point? The disconnect isn't the person accepting treatment for her child. The disconnect is the mother who would voluntarily end her child's life in the first place.

What? An aborted fetus curable? No that's not what I'm saying at all.

Embryonic and fetal tissue has been used since forever in medical research to find cures for diseases. Everyone is so upset with how "barbaric" this is, but would accept the cure if their own child was sick. The polio vaccine came about through the use of fetal lung tissue. Would those opposed to abortion rather take the risk that their child dies, spends its life in an iron lung or a wheelchair? I think not.

Embryonic and fetal tissues are used in medical research. That's what Planned Parenthood is doing, not selling baby livers to be eaten with fava beans and a glass of Chianti.

That's my point.

Ohfour · Hooker

I have no problem with the research. With cells of spontaneous aborted children....not on murdered ones...

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I have no problem with the research. With cells of spontaneous aborted children....not on murdered ones...

Spontaneously miscarried embryos usually have something wrong with them. That's why they're not used in research.

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I have no problem with the research. With cells of spontaneous aborted children....not on murdered ones...
Spontaneously miscarried embryos usually have something wrong with them. That's why they're not used in research.

So let's kill children that have nothing wrong with them. That is So messed up...

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I have no problem with the research. With cells of spontaneous aborted children....not on murdered ones...
Spontaneously miscarried embryos usually have something wrong with them. That's why they're not used in research.
So let's kill children that have nothing wrong with them. That is So messed up...

Abortion is legal in your country. That's the bottom line. I suppose it's better to just dispose of the remains as hazardous waste and burned, rather than being used to cure diabetes, Parkinson's, and other diseases.

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I have no problem with the research. With cells of spontaneous aborted children....not on murdered ones...
Spontaneously miscarried embryos usually have something wrong with them. That's why they're not used in research.
So let's kill children that have nothing wrong with them. That is So messed up...
Abortion is legal in your country. That's the bottom line. I suppose it's better to just dispose of the remains as hazardous waste and burned, rather than being used to cure diabetes, Parkinson's, and other diseases.

And I work to change that. As restrictions become tighter and tighter, hopefully soon it will be almost impossible...

Many clinics have already had to close because they can't comply. And that's fine with me...

weltschmerz · Guru

It will never be impossible. Abortion has been around since time immemorial. If women can't get it legally, they'll go to back alley doctors with coat hangers.

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
It will never be impossible. Abortion has been around since time immemorial. If women can't get it legally, they'll go to back alley doctors with coat hangers.

I didn't say it would be impossible. I said I want to make it illegal.

weltschmerz · Guru

And so...I ask again. If polio makes a resurgence, will you withhold the polio vaccine from your children? If a loved is struck down with Alzheimer's, and there's a promising new cure, you'll deny them that chance? If you get Parkinson's and the cure is available, you'll say "No thanks!"?

-- Edited by weltschmerz on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 01:31:52 PM

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
And so...I ask again. If polio makes a resurgence, will you withhold the polio vaccine from your children? If a loved is struck down with Alzheimer's, and there's a promising new cure, you'll deny them that chance? If you get Parkinson's and the cure is available, you'll say "No thanks!"?

-- Edited by weltschmerz on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 01:31:52 PM

I honestly don't know. I would have to research. There are a lot of "cures" that I would refuse (chemo being one of them), so it's quite possible that I would refuse for myself and my husband.

weltschmerz · Guru

No longer happening...thanks to embryonic tissue research.

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:

No longer happening...thanks to embryonic tissue research.

WAY before my time. So where did they get all of these embryos? From the back alley coat hanger doctors? Did they preserve them for the scientists?

burns07 · Guru

And if you do feel it's the taking of a life, how can you possibly even think it's okay for someone to have the right to choose to do such a thing?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

can't say for everyone--for us, it could very easily be the choice between her life and a ( potential ) child--know what my choice would be

weltschmerz · Guru

They got them from embryos obtained after abortions from the mothers who chose to terminate.

www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
They got them from embryos obtained after abortions from the mothers who chose to terminate.

www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development

So they were illegally obtained...on the black market. Nice...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 02:08:01 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Weltz, you do know stem cells are also in umbilical cords right?

It can be have step at birth and used for just about anything.

I do not advocate abortion. I think it should be illegal and I think it should be punishable by death.

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
They got them from embryos obtained after abortions from the mothers who chose to terminate.

www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development
So they were illegally obtained...on the black market. Nice...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 02:08:01 PM

You clearly didn't read the article.

Ohfour · Hooker

In the 1950s abortion was illegal...

weltschmerz · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Weltz, you do know stem cells are also in umbilical cords right?

It can be have step at birth and used for just about anything.

I do not advocate abortion. I think it should be illegal and I think it should be punishable by death.

Od course I know that. Umbilical stem cells are one thing and embryonic tissue matter are two different things. Both are used in research.

You think abortion should be punishable by death? Well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

O4, the sad thing is, medical waste is disposed of how ever the hospital or clinic sees fit. And an aborted baby is nothing more than that.

Ohfour · Hooker

lilyofcourse wrote:
O4, the sad thing is, medical waste is disposed of how ever the hospital or clinic sees fit. And an aborted baby is nothing more than that.

Yeah, I know. I think every woman that has an abortion should have a mandatory hysterectomy. That way, she can never get pregnant again...

weltschmerz · Guru

Even the bible didn't punish abortion by death. Priests performed the ritual of having women spontaneously abort, as directed by God.
Numbers 5: 11-31

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

huskerbb wrote:
burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life
It's not just her body.

Actually it is always just her body. Just because there are fetal cells in it, doesn't transfer ownership of her body to the fetus. Just like when there are cancerous cells in the body, we don't say the body also belongs to the cancer. Ownership of the mother's body is always exclusively hers.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life
It's not just her body.
Actually it is always just her body. Just because there are fetal cells in it, doesn't transfer ownership of her body to the fetus. Just like when there are cancerous cells in the body, we don't say the body also belongs to the cancer. Ownership of the mother's body is always exclusively hers.

You compare a baby to cancer?

Wow.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life
It's not just her body.
Actually it is always just her body. Just because there are fetal cells in it, doesn't transfer ownership of her body to the fetus. Just like when there are cancerous cells in the body, we don't say the body also belongs to the cancer. Ownership of the mother's body is always exclusively hers.

Cancer is not a human being. WTF?

ed11563 · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
O4, the sad thing is, medical waste is disposed of how ever the hospital or clinic sees fit. And an aborted baby is nothing more than that.

Yeah, I know. I think every woman that has an abortion should have a mandatory hysterectomy. That way, she can never get pregnant again...

I'd happily (as a taxpayer) cover the cost of Implanon or an IUD for them, but I think hysterectomy is too extreme, especially for the teenagers I've seen in the operating room.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The body may be the mother's, but the child's body is the child's. The fact one is inside the other should not make ANY difference.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I was making an analogy. The body of the woman always belongs to the woman and never belongs to anything growing inside her.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life
It's not just her body.
Actually it is always just her body. Just because there are fetal cells in it, doesn't transfer ownership of her body to the fetus. Just like when there are cancerous cells in the body, we don't say the body also belongs to the cancer. Ownership of the mother's body is always exclusively hers.
Cancer is not a human being. WTF?

And neither is a fetus. It's a potential human being.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
burns07 wrote:

am pro choice not because am ok with abortion but believe a woman's rights to her own body are absolute--as are yours or mine

morally, am pro life
It's not just her body.
Actually it is always just her body. Just because there are fetal cells in it, doesn't transfer ownership of her body to the fetus. Just like when there are cancerous cells in the body, we don't say the body also belongs to the cancer. Ownership of the mother's body is always exclusively hers.
Cancer is not a human being. WTF?
And neither is a fetus. It's a potential human being.

No. If you pull the DNA of a fetus - it is a human being. At conception.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Well lots of things have DNA in common with human beings. It doesn't make them human beings. It is a potential human being. It cannot live or develop outside the human body of the mother.