TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

Daughter Struggles To Resolve Mom's Failure To Defend Her

NAOW · Vette's SS

She should go see a counselor, and if her mother asks, and gets upset about how 'she did what she had to do,' Op should answer in the same way-'And now I'm doing what I have to do.'

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I couldn't live with someone who treated me like that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I think she needs to see a therapist. I can understand her mom's position all those years ago. While she did not kick him out she did stop the abuse.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.

Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

"It would have been in all the papers" would also have affected the daughter very much during that time, the whispers, school teasing, etc. Saying it does not mean she wasn't thinking of the daughter, too.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

NAOW wrote:
She should go see a counselor, and if her mother asks, and gets upset about how 'she did what she had to do,' Op should answer in the same way-'And now I'm doing what I have to do.'

This.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.

And this. We tend to forget that years ago people knew about these things and still didn't do anything. No one talked about it. It wasn't like it was today.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

She's 50. She doesn't have to tell her mother anything.

This is like was said on the other thread.

What happened back then was on her mom and dad. What's happening now is on her.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
"It would have been in all the papers" would also have affected the daughter very much during that time, the whispers, school teasing, etc. Saying it does not mean she wasn't thinking of the daughter, too.

But the mother's response was all about the mother. I think that's a huge miss. The mother should have responded with concern for how her daughter was able to cope, some compassion for the fact that her daughter was molested, etc. I don't think that's too much to ask. While it was a different time, the mother could have said "if it happened now, I would react much differently than I did then." Instead, the mother made the conversation all about her and how SHE was impacted and what SHE had to deal with. I think that's pretty selfish.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
"It would have been in all the papers" would also have affected the daughter very much during that time, the whispers, school teasing, etc. Saying it does not mean she wasn't thinking of the daughter, too.
But the mother's response was all about the mother. I think that's a huge miss. The mother should have responded with concern for how her daughter was able to cope, some compassion for the fact that her daughter was molested, etc. I don't think that's too much to ask. While it was a different time, the mother could have said "if it happened now, I would react much differently than I did then." Instead, the mother made the conversation all about her and how SHE was impacted and what SHE had to deal with. I think that's pretty selfish.

The OP said "Her response was that it would have been in all the papers (my parents were prominent local musicians in our town), and there was no way she could have raised two kids on her own."

That short sentence does not infer it was all about the mom. It says what it says - and very likely the reality. So your issue is that mom didn't pretty it up? Mom has probably been feeling guilt over it for years - it had to be a very difficult situation to stay married to that man because of everything.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

No I don't think the mom should pretty it up. I think the mom should express some sort of remorse over the situation and engage the daughter in a conversation about how the daughter feels, about how the mom did the best she could but that if she knew then what she knew now, etc. How you say something matters. And the daughter began the conversation looking for some sort of understanding and all she got was dismissed. I think that sucks and the mom could have done a better job explaining herself. It isn't "making it pretty", it's being compassionate, being an empathetic listener. It's being present for your child who is hurting. She was molested for heaven's sake.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

And if the mom is so tortured over the situation, as you say she might be, then she needs to admit that to her daughter and not make her feel guilty for seeking counseling.

ed11563 · Guru

20 - 20 hindsight ...

I think the Mom should have explained to her DD that she knew the guy was dangerous or had been, but she can't get completely rid of him because they would become homeless and indigent, and might not survive without his income.

Also that she WAS protecting her kids from him, keeping him from doing it again, and

that's the best she can / could do.

Reinforce the idea that whatever her DD was thinking, DD is/was correct and justified. And she hopes DD NEVER gets attached to a guy who is abusive, because there might not be a way out.

(I knew one woman who shot her guy dead with his pistol ... but that did not work out well for her.)

Blankie · Guru

Makes my stomach turn. Having to live with your abuser is horrendous. Even if the abuse did stop, it was hell for her to have to live with him.

I can't believe that she lives with her mother now.

She needs an incest survivors support group and therapy. Badly.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I will admit to not being able to be objective about this. It would mean the world to my DH to hear his father say "I am sorry I let your mother hurt you. I am sorry I was not there for you when you needed me." Instead all DH has ever gotten is "it wasn't that bad" or "she was your mother, what was I supposed to do?"

It would be nice just once to hear that man admit his part in allowing the abuse to happen, in not believing DH. It won't ever happen though.

Words matter. And when your child, whom you allowed to live with their abuser, comes to you and says "I was hurting, why did you let my abuser keep living with us?" You owe it to the victim, your child, to listen. You owe it to your child to ensure they are heard. You should apologize for what you did, help the child to understand why you made those choices,but don't minimize their pain. You need to acknowledge their pain and your part in it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

In a perfect world, she should have been more compassionite to her daughter. But people are not perfect, and she has probably been trying to not think about it, and wants to continue to go on not thinking about it.

Blankie · Guru

I don't buy the stuff about it being the 1970s, different times, and all that.

You do what you have to do to protect your children.

-- Edited by Blankie on Thursday 23rd of July 2015 08:44:55 PM

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!

You can't control what other people do.

The FACT is that while mom didn't "boot" her husband out--neither did the daughter leave when she was able to, or at least she came back, so, really, she didn't do any more about it than her mother did even when she was able to do so.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Abusers can't say they are sorry because then their brains would have to not only accept what they did but be responsible for their behavior.

huskerbb · Guru

I'm not big on pity parties 40 years after the fact.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You can't evaluate 40 yrs ago in light of today. Those were different times. Women didn't have the same options. And, when she was told it did stop. You can't Undo the past. It is what it is. You can only move forward. And, part of becoming an adult is realizing that your mother is an imperfect person with her own anxieties, issues, insecurities as well. If you want to lay blame, blame the Perp, the adoptive father. Yes, mom should have cut his nuts off in his sleep. But, she didn't . She likely didn't know what to do. It isn't like counseling was readily available back then either. You are 50+. You can either waste the rest of your life reliving what happened to you 40yrs ago or you can live for today and the joys of today.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Just because mom wants to know the topics of the sessions doesn't mean the daughter has to tell her. Either say no, or tell a pretty story about a trip to the fair. Jeepers people!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If you are 18 and your life is a mess, you can blame your parents. If you are 50 and your life is a mess, that's on you. Why is she still living with mom? Wow.

Ohfour · Hooker

Tignanello wrote:
Just because mom wants to know the topics of the sessions doesn't mean the daughter has to tell her. Either say no, or tell a pretty story about a trip to the fair. Jeepers people!

THIS!!!!!!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!

In those days, women had to suck it up. The mother was responding as if in that same mind set. I agree it wasn't a very compassionate way to respond, but the mother was molded by those days. Her comment about "being in all the papers" was really a way of saying that if it hit the papers they would lose their jobs, divorce anyway, and she would have to raise her kids in poverty, perhaps on welfare.

Blankie · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!
In those days, women had to suck it up. The mother was responding as if in that same mind set. I agree it wasn't a very compassionate way to respond, but the mother was molded by those days. Her comment about "being in all the papers" was really a way of saying that if it hit the papers they would lose their jobs, divorce anyway, and she would have to raise her kids in poverty, perhaps on welfare.

So? My ex-MIL did it in the early 1970s. They made it as a single-parent family after she kicked out the guy who raped her young daughters. It can be done.

If you care enough about your kid, and saving your kid's life, you do what you need to do.

This LW sounds so defeated. She probably never got counseling or help as a kid to deal with it.

Sexual abuse is devastating on so many levels.

It sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship between mother and daughter.

Every year she stays in it, her cajones get smaller and smaller. Pretty soon she'll have none at all.

I feel like shaking her and telling her to get the hell out and get to a therapist.

She is disabled and that probably makes it all the harder.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

There is a point in life where you can remain stuck or allow yourself to move ahead.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

??Blankie wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!
In those days, women had to suck it up. The mother was responding as if in that same mind set. I agree it wasn't a very compassionate way to respond, but the mother was molded by those days. Her comment about "being in all the papers" was really a way of saying that if it hit the papers they would lose their jobs, divorce anyway, and she would have to raise her kids in poverty, perhaps on welfare.
So? My ex-MIL did it in the early 1970s. They made it as a single-parent family after she kicked out the guy who raped her young daughters. It can be done.
If you care enough about your kid, and saving your kid's life, you do what you need to do.
This LW sounds so defeated. She probably never got counseling or help as a kid to deal with it.
Sexual abuse is devastating on so many levels.
It sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship between mother and daughter.
Every year she stays in it, her cajones get smaller and smaller. Pretty soon she'll have none at all.
I feel like shaking her and telling her to get the hell out and get to a therapist.
She is disabled and that probably makes it all the harder.

There was no help is those days. That is part of my point. Who was she going to talk to? Insurance for mental help was not available, no way would the husband pay for that. And she was probably beholden to him for support. I am not defending her but pointing out you cannot place today's standards on 40 years ago decisions. He stopped that was good enough for the other. Not a good decision. But that was the norm then. Your MIL was not the norm but paved the way for others to know there is a way out. She should be applauded, as much as this mother shouldn't be crushed down.

ladyloonatic · Regular

The daughter should see a therapist if that's what she wants to do.

The mom didn't deny that it happened. And we don't know how the whole discussion went, just the mom's "defense" in not leaving. For all we know she did say "I'm sorry, but I thought I was making the best decision I could at the time." And sometimes that has to be enough.

And she did protect her daughter in the respect that it never happened again. The mom and dad were in business together (with the musical group). She would have certainly been destroying their livelihood. There weren't a lot of "family services" available in the 70s.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She needs to stop making excuses. If you want help , go get it. She's 50. What is she waiting for? Till she hss one foot in the grave?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
She needs to stop making excuses. If you want help , go get it. She's 50. What is she waiting for? Till she hss one foot in the grave?

Yes!

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I don't get the whole "I don't want to tell Mommy what we talked about." Can't she say she had coffee with a friend? Went shopping? Drove around for awhile? Went to the park/lake/beach? You don't have to tell your mother everything.

huskerbb · Guru

Blankie wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!
In those days, women had to suck it up. The mother was responding as if in that same mind set. I agree it wasn't a very compassionate way to respond, but the mother was molded by those days. Her comment about "being in all the papers" was really a way of saying that if it hit the papers they would lose their jobs, divorce anyway, and she would have to raise her kids in poverty, perhaps on welfare.
So? My ex-MIL did it in the early 1970s. They made it as a single-parent family after she kicked out the guy who raped her young daughters. It can be done.
If you care enough about your kid, and saving your kid's life, you do what you need to do.
This LW sounds so defeated. She probably never got counseling or help as a kid to deal with it.
Sexual abuse is devastating on so many levels.
It sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship between mother and daughter.
Every year she stays in it, her cajones get smaller and smaller. Pretty soon she'll have none at all.
I feel like shaking her and telling her to get the hell out and get to a therapist.
She is disabled and that probably makes it all the harder.

So? Just because one person acted one way does not mean everyone has to--or did.

Plus, what's done is done. She can't go back 40 years and undo what happened, so rehashing that and saying "you should have done this or that" is USELESS.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Blankie wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
First - that was about 1975 and Mom's fear about having to raise 2 girls alone would have been very valid b/c dad would have been in jail - no child support. Second, it was 1975 and you just didn't speak of those things, then. And Third, mom STOPPED it from ever happening again.

So while I agree she should have done more, at least she did something that stopped it.
Yes, but the mother responded recently that "it would have been in all the papers". I think the daughter was looking for some sort of acknowledgement of what happened and of her own pain and instead she got "it would have been so hard on ME". That would be tough to live with. The mom has not said "I can't imagine how that was for you. What a terrible thing to have to live through. I am so sorry it happened to you but I did the best I could at the time.". That's sounds a little more caring than "it would have been in all the papers". I don't think it's too much to ask that the mother show some sort of remorse or sympathy for her molested child!
In those days, women had to suck it up. The mother was responding as if in that same mind set. I agree it wasn't a very compassionate way to respond, but the mother was molded by those days. Her comment about "being in all the papers" was really a way of saying that if it hit the papers they would lose their jobs, divorce anyway, and she would have to raise her kids in poverty, perhaps on welfare.
So? My ex-MIL did it in the early 1970s. They made it as a single-parent family after she kicked out the guy who raped her young daughters. It can be done.
If you care enough about your kid, and saving your kid's life, you do what you need to do.
This LW sounds so defeated. She probably never got counseling or help as a kid to deal with it.
Sexual abuse is devastating on so many levels.
It sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship between mother and daughter.
Every year she stays in it, her cajones get smaller and smaller. Pretty soon she'll have none at all.
I feel like shaking her and telling her to get the hell out and get to a therapist.
She is disabled and that probably makes it all the harder.

She's 50. She's had 32 years of adulthood to get herself therapy. The fact she still hasn't says a lot. And you have no idea what the true dynamics of their life was at the time. Because you ex-MIL was able to kick a boyfriend out of the house does not mean every woman at that time was able to do the same. She made the abuse stop, she wasn't a monster.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well said.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well said.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Why does everyone keep saying counseling wasn't available in the 70's? It totally was. I have family members who went to counseling in the 70's. It was actually very chic to go then. To say it wasn't available is just plainly not true.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying counseling wasn't available in the 70's? It totally was. I have family members who went to counseling in the 70's. It was actually very chic to go then. To say it wasn't available is just plainly not true.

"Chic" is a luxury poor people can't afford.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Should of, could of would of doesn't change what did.

It's time to stop blaming others.

Do.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying counseling wasn't available in the 70's? It totally was. I have family members who went to counseling in the 70's. It was actually very chic to go then. To say it wasn't available is just plainly not true.
"Chic" is a luxury poor people can't afford.

That isn't what was said though. People were saying it wasn't available. It was.

huskerbb · Guru

They were not nearly as available as today. The fact that they were "chic" just shows how novel and rare they were.

Sure, I'm sure they could have found someone to counsel them--many churches filled that role--but to say the vast array of social services we have today was available in the 70's is just not true.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

People didn't go to counseling back in the day. People didn't air their dirty laundry to others. And I grew up in a small town. There were no counselors there in bygone years.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I'm sure counseling was available but not like it is today. Even as an adult I remember stigma being associated with it. Today nobody really bats an eye because it's so common. I think counseling really came to a head when divorce rates went up and families had to start dealing with blended family issues.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The only real option then in a small town was talking to a priest or pastor. Or a bartender or hair dresser.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The only real option then in a small town was talking to a priest or pastor. Or a bartender or hair dresser.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Yes. Most counseling took place through the church. And back then they counseled women to be good wives to their husbands. To submit to them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The abuse lasted 3 yrs. However she has lived 40+yrs giving the abuser power over those 40+ yrs. Sad.

ed11563 · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The abuse lasted 3 yrs. However she has lived 40+yrs giving the abuser power over those 40+ yrs. Sad.

Spouse too.

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Daughter Struggles To Resolve Mom's Failure To Defend Her

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