TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Welfare children - what's a society to do?

Lindley · Guru

I agree with everything you posted.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I agree with you LL. I also see planting community gardens so they can grow nutritious vegetables. They need to tend those gardens & teach the children as well. I know a lot of the poverty is in inner cities but they can do it in the available green spaces or build a large above ground garden using railroad ties, etc.

sweet tooth · Member

All good ideas. But we need leaders who aren't scared to implement them.

Ohfour · Hooker

sweet tooth wrote:
All good ideas. But we need leaders who aren't scared to implement them.

Agree....and we need churches to take a move active role. We need church members to help guide and support these mothers. If you belong to a large church (I do), how hard would it be to get 20 or so families to offer babysitting 1 night a month so a single mother could take GED or tech classes. Make sure she and her kids are fed? We as Christians need to start walking the walk. I am GUILTY of this. But this thread just gave me an idea for a new ministry at my church.

TrudyML · Guru

Sadly, they won't want to do any of that. They want the check. In my building there is an SSI guy that decides if they should get it. Watching that parade everyday gets old, fast. And the Oscar worthy job they do? Ugh.

TrudyML · Guru

And we all know I live in a city and take the bus. They sit on the bus and coach eachother.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

TrudyML wrote:
And we all know I live in a city and take the bus. They sit on the bus and coach eachother.

Nice!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

TrudyML wrote:
Sadly, they won't want to do any of that. They want the check. In my building there is an SSI guy that decides if they should get it. Watching that parade everyday gets old, fast. And the Oscar worthy job they do? Ugh.

Well, it's not supposed to be a choice. You either do it, or you don't get aid. And if you can't support the children - you lose them, and then get charged child support and if you still don't pay, you get sentenced to a work camp. People have proven that so many of them won't do anything unless they are made to.

TrudyML · Guru

Oh, I agree. I watch it 24/7. Amazing. And the welfare office here in the City moved. There I am walking by, they all think I work there and gear up. You can feel the disappointment when I just walk by. Ugh!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

All that's great.

There are daycare programs for low income families. It's over flowing.

At one time, there was a job training and education program for those on medicaid and food stamps. There was also a caveat that you look for a job while receiving benefits. And it had a two year limit.

But then all that was taken away because it "made people feel bad" or some such nonsense from the Clinton administration.

When you go apply now, you are given a form to register to vote. No matter who you are.

I had to renew the boys medicaid this week. I had to prove our legal status, age, the fact that even existed with all kinds of documents.

My ex MIL was a Right from the Start agent. She said they were not allowed to ask a Hispanic applicant for proof more than once and if they said they didn't have it, they didn't have to provide it.

I have no problem with drug testing. But it needs to be random. Like if they show up at doctors offices or ER.

And fingerprinting. Every store has a touch screen card reader. And print each time it is used. If it comes back as someone not on the approved list, they lose it. Should help cut fraud.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
All that's great.

There are daycare programs for low income families. It's over flowing.

At one time, there was a job training and education program for those on medicaid and food stamps. There was also a caveat that you look for a job while receiving benefits. And it had a two year limit.

But then all that was taken away because it "made people feel bad" or some such nonsense from the Clinton administration.

When you go apply now, you are given a form to register to vote. No matter who you are.

I had to renew the boys medicaid this week. I had to prove our legal status, age, the fact that even existed with all kinds of documents.

My ex MIL was a Right from the Start agent. She said they were not allowed to ask a Hispanic applicant for proof more than once and if they said they didn't have it, they didn't have to provide it.

I have no problem with drug testing. But it needs to be random. Like if they show up at doctors offices or ER.

And fingerprinting. Every store has a touch screen card reader. And print each time it is used. If it comes back as someone not on the approved list, they lose it. Should help cut fraud.

Well, in order to work - more of the funding would have to be put towards this.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

There are waiting lists. The daycare Caitlyn works at has a government funded program for low income families. A lot of daycare have one or two classes.

They are kept in separate groups. They have different rules and requirements for them. More rigid schedules, nutrition requirements, education requirements and while Caitlyn works in a faith based daycare, they are not allowed to do prayer or talk God in those classes. The rest of the daycare do prayer, bible verses, pledges to the American and Christian flags and sign kids Christian music.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I said all that to say this. The waiting list for that program is about two years long.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Yes, lily, I'm aware. I'm talking about new, more expanded programs - not just what we have now.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I think if illegals were ejected from government programs, they would immediately be in the black again.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

TrudyML wrote:
And we all know I live in a city and take the bus. They sit on the bus and coach eachother.

Yes they do. And having spent time on welfare I know they do this. They make a full time job out of getting money, groceries, and utilities. I did it. I HAD to do it. I was single, raising three kids, and putting myself through college. You want my thoughts?

Raise the amount you get on welfare. The amount you get is so paltry you can't survive on it. That's why there is so much fraud. It's just not enough to survive. Allow the person who is getting it to actually pay the household bills.

From the day you get your first check you need to be working toward a goal you have discussed with a jobs trainer. You should not be allowed funding for a job that will not make any money when you graduate. The jobs trainer will be different than your case worker. You'll spend time with them figuring out what you want to do with your life. If you do not have a GED that's step one. You need to enroll in GED classes, college, or a training program where you will have marketable skills.

The government needs to pay for this. And childcare. And you need to be held accountable. You have to go to class xyz numbers of days or you are put on probation. A second violation will result in a fine that comes out of your welfare check. Let's say twenty five dollars. OTOH, for each class/semester/whatever you pass they can raise your welfare check by a small percentage as a reward. Say ten dollars. Incentives, rewards, and fines.

If you voluntarily have a semi permanent BC method in place (depo, implanon, or an IUD) you get an incentive. We raise your check by say ten dollars a month. If you choose not to use BC that's fine. We don't fine you but it's made extremely clear that if you get pregnant again you will not get an increase in benefits. We will cover your pregnancy and then health insurance for the child but you will not get more money or food stamps.

You must check in on a regular basis and have a goal plan. If at any time you are not meeting your goals you go on probation. Three strikes your out. How long you get government help depends on what goals you have set. I would not be against paying for a four year degree if they are going to go out and actually use it. There are many two year programs that provide great earning potential too.

I agree with LL about the child care. There's not enough out there. And I think giving a big reward after you meet your goal like a low interest loan is great. Something these people need and can use. I also like ohfours idea of mentoring them. One of the things I've noticed in my lifetime is that you model your parents behavior. If your parents work hard you will see that and model that. People on welfare see that as a way of life. They honestly don't know or understand there is a different way.

Those are my ideas... Flame away.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

My kids were on a government funded daycare program for two years. They were treated exactly like the other kids. Not one bit differently. They were allowed to pray and all that. But there was always a long line for the programs. I don't think it has a lot to do with the program though. Right now people are going back to work from over the summer and all the daycare's here are full up with EVERYONE. We just need more and reliable daycare.

And I agree that illegals should not be eligible for any kind of help. NONE. ZERO!

msrock · Guru

I'm reading some of this and it all sounds nice, but it seems like we're going to need a whole nother branch of government to run it... hopefully not as big as the IRS. lol. It just doesn't seem feasible.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
TrudyML wrote:
And we all know I live in a city and take the bus. They sit on the bus and coach eachother.
Yes they do. And having spent time on welfare I know they do this. They make a full time job out of getting money, groceries, and utilities. I did it. I HAD to do it. I was single, raising three kids, and putting myself through college. You want my thoughts?
Raise the amount you get on welfare. The amount you get is so paltry you can't survive on it. That's why there is so much fraud. It's just not enough to survive. Allow the person who is getting it to actually pay the household bills.
From the day you get your first check you need to be working toward a goal you have discussed with a jobs trainer. You should not be allowed funding for a job that will not make any money when you graduate. The jobs trainer will be different than your case worker. You'll spend time with them figuring out what you want to do with your life. If you do not have a GED that's step one. You need to enroll in GED classes, college, or a training program where you will have marketable skills.
The government needs to pay for this. And childcare. And you need to be held accountable. You have to go to class xyz numbers of days or you are put on probation. A second violation will result in a fine that comes out of your welfare check. Let's say twenty five dollars. OTOH, for each class/semester/whatever you pass they can raise your welfare check by a small percentage as a reward. Say ten dollars. Incentives, rewards, and fines.
If you voluntarily have a semi permanent BC method in place (depo, implanon, or an IUD) you get an incentive. We raise your check by say ten dollars a month. If you choose not to use BC that's fine. We don't fine you but it's made extremely clear that if you get pregnant again you will not get an increase in benefits. We will cover your pregnancy and then health insurance for the child but you will not get more money or food stamps.
You must check in on a regular basis and have a goal plan. If at any time you are not meeting your goals you go on probation. Three strikes your out. How long you get government help depends on what goals you have set. I would not be against paying for a four year degree if they are going to go out and actually use it. There are many two year programs that provide great earning potential too.
I agree with LL about the child care. There's not enough out there. And I think giving a big reward after you meet your goal like a low interest loan is great. Something these people need and can use. I also like ohfours idea of mentoring them. One of the things I've noticed in my lifetime is that you model your parents behavior. If your parents work hard you will see that and model that. People on welfare see that as a way of life. They honestly don't know or understand there is a different way.
Those are my ideas... Flame away.

I think when it comes to covering household expenses - that should be in government housing. It's all paid for. But it needs to be safe and cared for, like a family apartment dormitory style set-up. This would provide people with further incentive to get themselves out of the program - they would also get to choose where they live.

Welfare should not just be handing money to people. For the short term - it should provide the basic necessities, like food and shelter.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

msrock wrote:
I'm reading some of this and it all sounds nice, but it seems like we're going to need a whole nother branch of government to run it... hopefully not as big as the IRS. lol. It just doesn't seem feasible.

Yep. Which would CREATE JOBS. That's what FDR did to help recover from the depression. He didn't just hand able-bodied people money - he put them to work.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

We are spending the money already - we just need to spend it more wisely.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
TrudyML wrote:
And we all know I live in a city and take the bus. They sit on the bus and coach eachother.
Yes they do. And having spent time on welfare I know they do this. They make a full time job out of getting money, groceries, and utilities. I did it. I HAD to do it. I was single, raising three kids, and putting myself through college. You want my thoughts?
Raise the amount you get on welfare. The amount you get is so paltry you can't survive on it. That's why there is so much fraud. It's just not enough to survive. Allow the person who is getting it to actually pay the household bills.
From the day you get your first check you need to be working toward a goal you have discussed with a jobs trainer. You should not be allowed funding for a job that will not make any money when you graduate. The jobs trainer will be different than your case worker. You'll spend time with them figuring out what you want to do with your life. If you do not have a GED that's step one. You need to enroll in GED classes, college, or a training program where you will have marketable skills.
The government needs to pay for this. And childcare. And you need to be held accountable. You have to go to class xyz numbers of days or you are put on probation. A second violation will result in a fine that comes out of your welfare check. Let's say twenty five dollars. OTOH, for each class/semester/whatever you pass they can raise your welfare check by a small percentage as a reward. Say ten dollars. Incentives, rewards, and fines.
If you voluntarily have a semi permanent BC method in place (depo, implanon, or an IUD) you get an incentive. We raise your check by say ten dollars a month. If you choose not to use BC that's fine. We don't fine you but it's made extremely clear that if you get pregnant again you will not get an increase in benefits. We will cover your pregnancy and then health insurance for the child but you will not get more money or food stamps.
You must check in on a regular basis and have a goal plan. If at any time you are not meeting your goals you go on probation. Three strikes your out. How long you get government help depends on what goals you have set. I would not be against paying for a four year degree if they are going to go out and actually use it. There are many two year programs that provide great earning potential too.
I agree with LL about the child care. There's not enough out there. And I think giving a big reward after you meet your goal like a low interest loan is great. Something these people need and can use. I also like ohfours idea of mentoring them. One of the things I've noticed in my lifetime is that you model your parents behavior. If your parents work hard you will see that and model that. People on welfare see that as a way of life. They honestly don't know or understand there is a different way.
Those are my ideas... Flame away.
I think when it comes to covering household expenses - that should be in government housing. It's all paid for. But it needs to be safe and cared for, like a family apartment dormitory style set-up. This would provide people with further incentive to get themselves out of the program - they would also get to choose where they live.
Welfare should not just be handing money to people. For the short term - it should provide the basic necessities, like food and shelter.

I agree. It should cover the basics. But that's not how government housing works. All bills aren't paid. So people make a job out of running around to different agencies to get all their bills covered. I am saying cover housing. Bare minimum. Then reward people for working toward a goal of getting off the system.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
We are spending the money already - we just need to spend it more wisely.

Exactly. We already have caseworkers. We might need more but if we used them more efficiently then we could stretch the budget. I think caseworkers would be happier with their jobs if they saw their clients succeeding in life. We also have jobs programs in most cities too. We'd probably need to increase the workers but this is already in place.

Honeys_Mom · Mod & Permanent Board Sweetheart

Lawyerlady wrote:
We are spending the money already - we just need to spend it more wisely.

This. But the socialistic-leaning individuals in our government will fight it tooth and nail.

Don't you know that because I have (shame on me, I'm sure it has nothing to do with getting my sorry butt out of bed each morning and going to work whether I feel like it or not evileye ), I must share what I have with those who are have-nots (quite possibly in that condition because they don't work)?

That was quite the rant for HM, wasn't it? I'll feel better later, LOL... (I hope cry )

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think a major issue is that if a program isn't working as intended, instead of scrapping it - they just something else that they think will fix it. Some programs can't be fixed - they need to be scrapped and redone.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
I think a major issue is that if a program isn't working as intended, instead of scrapping it - they just something else that they think will fix it. Some programs can't be fixed - they need to be scrapped and redone.

This. It's not working. Get rid of the whole system and start new.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Our welfare system doesn't work. It rewards parents for having children they can't afford by paying for housing and food, and not forcing parents to support their children. Men can father 37 children - pay for none - and still be out making more babies. Women have children to get free government housing, and some parents actually choose not to get married so the women can get government benfits.
We need some drastic changes to deter the ability to milk the welware system, and to provide the ability for those that actually do want to work and improve themselves the ability to do so.
I realize you can't just stop welfare - there are too many children that depend on it and it is not fair that their parents can't or won't support them.
But better ideas for how welfare should work need to be brainstormed and implemented.
A few of my ideas -
Government daycare centers that provide child care for children and where they will get nutritious meals and enrichment programs daily. The centers can be for parents who either work low-paying jobs, or who are training or going to school to better themselves. And if a welfare recipient is not working or training to better themselves - they need to be performing community service in exchange for the welfare support. No one should be sitting home, watching TV and collecting a check.
Parents who fail to support their children by choice, or neglect or abuse their children should be sentenced to work camps to pay their support. They can do those jobs that people claim illegal immigrants are needed for b/c Americans won't do them. This applies to people who have their children taken away for drug abuse, etc. - They go to a work camp to support the kids, and are in a rehab program at the same time.
A reward system for people who actually get off welfare and stay off it - which could include scholarships for their kids and/or extremely low interest home loans.
NO benefits for illegal aliens.

What ideas do you have to reform the system. Because it is NOT working. A welfare system that worked would be getting smaller - not bigger.

They are already getting daycare benefits. Why when they dont' work do they need to have daycare? Go figure.

Here is my idea of Welfare. If you want Welfare, you live in the Govt built Dorm. Dorm Style. There is a cafeteria that serves 3 meals a day. That is where you eat. You get to stay there if you contribute by helping take care of the buildings and grounds and food service, etc. There will be a Bus that goes to town which you can ride to find work. If you don't like these conditions, then leave and go fend for yourself. And, if you are neglectful of your kid, then the State will step in and you will go to jail and your kid will be placed with responsible relatives or foster care.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

So basically put them in prison and make them work for free 40 hours a week and tell them to go find another "real" job on top of that? That's ridiculously stupid. And then tell them if they don't like it to leave?

Dorm rooms. Will they share a bathroom? Because if they do I see a great potential for danger. You're going to pack all these very poor, frustrated people on top of each other in a little dorm room because they're not human and don't deserve better? You are asking for crime to run rampant. Are you going to separate the men from the women? What about families? The husbands can't be with their wives? This whole idea is stupid.

I would never have lived on a welfare system like that. The safety factor for my children was too great and I would not let someone tell me what I had to eat 24/7. Being poor doesn't mean you have no rights anymore.

Ohfour · Hooker

I disagree. If you want the government to pay for you, you should do what they say. Maybe people would think long and hard about it if there were the rules. I'm all for it...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
So basically put them in prison and make them work for free 40 hours a week and tell them to go find another "real" job on top of that? That's ridiculously stupid. And then tell them if they don't like it to leave?

Dorm rooms. Will they share a bathroom? Because if they do I see a great potential for danger. You're going to pack all these very poor, frustrated people on top of each other in a little dorm room because they're not human and don't deserve better? You are asking for crime to run rampant. Are you going to separate the men from the women? What about families? The husbands can't be with their wives? This whole idea is stupid.

I would never have lived on a welfare system like that. The safety factor for my children was too great and I would not let someone tell me what I had to eat 24/7. Being poor doesn't mean you have no rights anymore.

I didn't say 40 hours. I said they had to contribute. Last time I checked, nobody was preparing my food, doing my laundry or cleaning my home or doing the maintainence for me while a work a full time job. But, yes, similar to prison. There would be strict requirements. And, if you don't like it, then don't live there and go fend for yourself. If you want freedom, then freedom comes to those who earn their own keep.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
So basically put them in prison and make them work for free 40 hours a week and tell them to go find another "real" job on top of that? That's ridiculously stupid. And then tell them if they don't like it to leave?

Dorm rooms. Will they share a bathroom? Because if they do I see a great potential for danger. You're going to pack all these very poor, frustrated people on top of each other in a little dorm room because they're not human and don't deserve better? You are asking for crime to run rampant. Are you going to separate the men from the women? What about families? The husbands can't be with their wives? This whole idea is stupid.

I would never have lived on a welfare system like that. The safety factor for my children was too great and I would not let someone tell me what I had to eat 24/7. Being poor doesn't mean you have no rights anymore.

Yeah, Dorm rooms. A room with a couple of beds. Legally marrieds can live together. If not, then no. If you want to live together, get married. Otherwise tough taters. As for what they "deserve"? Nobody deserves a DAMN thing. That is more than generous.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I live in an area with so many people on welfare. They don't want off it. They don't want to work. They do get free daycare from birth. My coworker's daughter has 4 kids now and works part time in a sandwich shop. She gets so much money for everything it's pathetic. She turned down the chance for free college. She'd rather just keep spitting kids out and living high on the hog. Oh, and being low income with 4 kids means $8,000 tax refunds.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I still don't understand how some get so much and others can't get anything.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

lilyofcourse wrote:
I still don't understand how some get so much and others can't get anything.

Some know how to work the system better than others.

apple · Guru

msrock wrote:
I'm reading some of this and it all sounds nice, but it seems like we're going to need a whole nother branch of government to run it... hopefully not as big as the IRS. lol. It just doesn't seem feasible.

No it doesn't.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
My kids were on a government funded daycare program for two years. They were treated exactly like the other kids. Not one bit differently. They were allowed to pray and all that. But there was always a long line for the programs. I don't think it has a lot to do with the program though. Right now people are going back to work from over the summer and all the daycare's here are full up with EVERYONE. We just need more and reliable daycare.

And I agree that illegals should not be eligible for any kind of help. NONE. ZERO!

Didn't anything about being treated different.

And your kids were in daycare how long ago?

Things have changed a lot.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Okay take away all their rights. Put them in a poor person's prison. And then when they start taking away YOUR RIGHTS I will laugh hysterically. Slippery slope and all. Do it to one group and you're just giving the government permission to do it to another. And another. And another.

Ohfour · Hooker

The borrower is slave to the lender. Don't want to be enslaved? Don't depend on the government. Yes, sometimes its unavoidable, but you still have to play by the master's rules. Its life....

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Okay you so treat them like trash, tell them they're slaves, and tell them they are prisoners and have no choices. That's an excellent way of motivating someone to do better. "Yes you worthless piece of ****. Here's your bread and mustard sandwich. Fvck you and move on. Oh, and don't forget to wash your dishes as you do." I am so glad this wealth of Christianity flows from you people.

I was poor once. Dirt poor. I was on the system. I was way more motivated by someone treating me decent, talking to me with respect, and encouraging me. Yes, some of "those people" are working the system. Some don't know any other way. But in the end if you want them to get off welfare putting them down is not going to help.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And when you treat innocent people as prisoners, tell them they no longer have rights, they will balk. Many of them will not take the money. The crime rate will sky rocket. The homelessness problem will go through the roof. Then everyone will be bitching about that.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Support yourself then u aren't beholden to someone elses rules. Pretty simple.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Kind of like moving out of mommy and daddy's home.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Do you even hear how you sound? Seriously? You're basically putting someone in debtor's prison. You do know that's been outlawed?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And it is threads like that are the very reason that welfare will never change.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

We need to reinstate debtors prison.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You are the one getting hysterical. I offered a very fine solution. Heat , shelter, food. Funny how that isnt good enough nowadays. I am Entitled!

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Are you going to lock up everyone on disability? They are on the government dole too. Everything they have comes from the government. They should have no choice on what they eat either. Their checks should stop and they should be put in a dorm too. Just the bare basics.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

We are talking about able bodied people so try to stay on topic. If u want to discuss that to then create a thread on it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You are the one getting hysterical. I offered a very fine solution. Heat , shelter, food. Funny how that isnt good enough nowadays. I am Entitled!

No, you said you wanted them in a prison type situation. I am not hysterical. YOU want to strip them of their rights. You know what? Do that and there will come a day that the government will come strip you of yours. There are tons of times I don't agree with things. TONS. For example, moms on welfare having tons of kids. But by god I am not going to start taking away people's rights. No way. If you let them come for someone else's then they can come for yours. Give them the power and they won't stop.

I want reasonable reform. And I was on welfare. I know way more about it than you do unless you were on it.