TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

Rocky Point High School wrestler's family files suit against district over bacterial infection

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think school hygiene is a problem. And, the schools often are not well sanitized at all. Our kids have swimming class and they leave their suits there that are supposedly laundered. And, a lot of kids wind up getting warts on their feet from walking around in the pool and locker room. I think there is very poor training in schools on proper sanitation.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

The school system is responsible. If they cannot keep up with the demands of keeping things clean and safe then they shouldn't have sports teams.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Schools' cleaning services don't deep clean anything other than the bathrooms. Classrooms get swept, hallways get swept, gyms get swept, etc. The cleaning isn't nearly what you would expect because it's been outsourced in most cases and the time spent on the job (labor costs) is the only thing that matters. The health of the kids isn't even a factor. I think it's hysterical that people think that the cleaners who come in at night have time to deep clean the wrestling mats! Lol. The kids' desks don't even get wiped off, why would the cleaners go into the gym and dig out equipment to clean?!

Have you ever taken a Clorox wipe and used it on a desk in a school? I have. The results are disgusting. The wipe was black with dirt and grime.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Sunday 9th of August 2015 08:28:25 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, but the School has a responsibility to clean their facilities. They have a responsibility to the kids first and foremost and a responsibility to taxpayers to maintain the equipment and buildings in good condition.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, but the School has a responsibility to clean their facilities. They have a responsibility to the kids first and foremost and a responsibility to taxpayers to maintain the equipment and buildings in good condition.

The equipment was usable and so was the building.

I get what you are saying and part of me is in agreement with you. But I also know that the custodian on duty in schools during the day is worried about other things like boilers, leaky roofs, broken toilets, etc. The custodian isn't the one cleaning in most cases. He/she is responsible for bigger ticket items. The cleaning is given over to cleaning crews who are subcontracted for the lowest possible bid.

Do you really think that those people coming in and cleaning for the lowest possible bid are dragging out the wrestling mats and cleaning them? No way. Like I said, they arent even wiping down desks because they don't have the time. If you want things like that cleaned regularly, it needs to be spelled out in the contract with the cleaning company. And honesty what cleaning company even knows how to clean a mat without possibly ruining it or causing damage they would be liable for?

If the school board has not budgeted for the cleaning of these things - including the desks our kids touch every day - then it's the board's fault. I guarantee the contract for the cleaning company spells out exactly what they company is responsible for cleaning each day.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I understand that they have other stuff to do. But doesn't every other business? Don't daycares have other stuff to do? We would not accept a daycare being lax about how they are handle bodily fluids and how things are used. School are antiquated dinosaurs still living in bygone years. Infection control SHOULD be on their radar by now but it isn't? Why? Yes, for the most part kids are pretty healthy creatures. But, schools are changing and they are bringing in kids with severe medical conditions who are immunosurpressed and other conditions that the school did not used to do. Those kids are at risk now from the healthy kids and vice versa. There has been a rise of superbugs over the last decades. And, we expect that gyms will keep their equipment clean why should we not expect the same standards of a school? Would it really be that difficult to clean the mats? Why can't the coaches and kids personally clean the matts themselves after every practice? There is no reason they can't all take some responsibility in that regard. And, yes, you would need to educate the school janitorial staff to address these issues.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Again, if you want the mats cleaned by the cleaning company, the board will need to spell that out in the contract.

In my opinion, it all comes down to funding. We can't expect schools to run on a shoestring budget and NOT sub contract out all the other duties to save money. Principals are not building maintenance experts. They are education experts. The school board is the one responsible for making sure these things are done according to community standards.

I 100% agree that the team and the coaches, players and their families should take responsibility for cleaning the mats. It's hysterical to me that those people thought the school would be taking care of it. It just shows how clueless they are about the schools their kids go to. If they had spent one minute in the school after hours they would see what cleaning entails. If they had asked the proper people before the practices started they could have prevented this. DH and I cleaned the uniforms before we passed them out, we cleaned the practice vests, etc. Because he cared about his kids and their health. If other coaches are parents or teachers who are coaching they may not have the training, the background or the time to take cleaning into consideration.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Again, if you want the mats cleaned by the cleaning company, the board will need to spell that out in the contract.

In my opinion, it all comes down to funding. We can't expect schools to run on a shoestring budget and NOT sub contract out all the other duties to save money. Principals are not building maintenance experts. They are education experts. The school board is the one responsible for making sure these things are done according to community standards.

I 100% agree that the team and the coaches, players and their families should take responsibility for cleaning the mats. It's hysterical to me that those people thought the school would be taking care of it. It just shows how clueless they are about the schools their kids go to. If they had spent one minute in the school after hours they would see what cleaning entails. If they had asked the proper people before the practices started they could have prevented this. DH and I cleaned the uniforms before we passed them out, we cleaned the practice vests, etc. Because he cared about his kids and their health. If other coaches are parents or teachers who are coaching they may not have the training, the background or the time to take cleaning into consideration.

The Superintendent is RESPONSIBLE for all aspects of running the school. Not just education in the classroom but of managing the staff, grounds, buildings, food service and on and on. It is the responsibility of the School and the School Board to make sure there are proper procedures and policies in the school to manage the buildings, students, classrooms, etc for the safety and benefit of the students. If they are not "experts" it is their job to educate themselves and then properly delegate so that the work gets done. We need to start involving the kids in caring for their OWN environment. In Japan, the kids clean their own classrooms. I am not saying we should have the kids fix the boilers. But is there any reason why kids could simply not wipe down their own school desks at the end of the day? Is there any reason why the basketball team can't give the floor a quick sweep?

A lot of the problem is that with this type of "socialistic" ownership, nobody knows who is responsible for anything. The coaches don't launder the practice pinnies in the closest because he or she is not allowed to take home school property to launder them and nobody at the school then does either. And, if one of the little darlings squirted bleach or some cleaner in their eye, then someone would flip about that. So, instead of schools being proacative in anything they tend to just not do anything until they have too.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But, I do understand what you are saying MM. And, part of the responsibility of the School Nurse for instance could be implementing and managing an Infection Control Policy and having some responsibility in that regard as well. There are people who could be called upon for their knowledge to assist.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

MRSA is so easy to spread. Problem is the schools are in the "we have never had to sanitize the mats before" mindset. With so many new infectious diseases going around the schools really need to take a look at old practices. Truly the only way to prevent this from happening again would be to wipe everything down after each set of kids wrestle. Seems a bit much.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Southern_Belle wrote:
MRSA is so easy to spread. Problem is the schools are in the "we have never had to sanitize the mats before" mindset. With so many new infectious diseases going around the schools really need to take a look at old practices. Truly the only way to prevent this from happening again would be to wipe everything down after each set of kids wrestle. Seems a bit much.

Yes. I certainly hear the "we have never had to do this before" from many in the School. How about this? How about if Schools actually use evidence based research to support their practices? We know that proper cleaning of body fluids is now a must. So the reason we don't care to address this now is what exactly?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

In days of old, Doctors didn't wash their hands between patients. Then Joseph Lister and others discovered germs/germ theory. The "we never used to have to do this before" is the lamest of lame excuses and if schools are simply going to turn a blind eye to everything, then yes, they should have the pants sued off of them.
I am not saying that they have to turn into a sterile cancer ward. But every school should have some proper cleaning procedures and protocols in place that at least demonstrate that they CARE about the physical safety and well being of their students.

Ohfour · Hooker

When my sin wrestled, the team and the parents were responsible for cleaning the mats. Practice wasn't over until the mats had been thoroughly cleaned and put away. Parents would help so they could get home.
We also had to work the tournaments held at our school and were responsible for cleaning the mats afterward.

Make the kids do it. Simple...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know O4. Why does everything have to be sooo dang complicated?

Ohfour · Hooker

Seriously. The school provided the bleach and the cleaning equipment. They were NEVER put away without being bleached. The kids need to take some responsibility. ..

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

When my kids were little, I was so busy with work that I never made the kids help. It was easier to do things myself. Well, I realized I am being a derelict parent if I don't make the kids take ownership in their own surroundings. No, you dont' get paid to empty the dishwasher, clean up dog poop or take out the trash. You live here. You WILL contribute.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It's going to sound awful but it's one kid in 7 years.

And most the hard surfaces are fine within 12 to 24 hours.

But here's the question for you Gaga. You're on the school board. So you should the perfect one to ask.

Why aren't the schools deep cleaned weekly?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, I am planning to review these policies at our School so I will let you know.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I'd really like to know when you figure it out.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

lilyofcourse wrote:
It's going to sound awful but it's one kid in 7 years.

And most the hard surfaces are fine within 12 to 24 hours.

But here's the question for you Gaga. You're on the school board. So you should the perfect one to ask.

Why aren't the schools deep cleaned weekly?

Because it costs too much money to have the cleaners spend time on that. It's all they can do to keep up with the trash and the sweeping in the time that's allotted to them. And then when it's winter, the mopping of the floors from the ice and slush takes almost all of their time. Cleaning isn't a budgetary priority beyond what they have to do to keep up appearances.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Southern_Belle wrote:
MRSA is so easy to spread. Problem is the schools are in the "we have never had to sanitize the mats before" mindset. With so many new infectious diseases going around the schools really need to take a look at old practices. Truly the only way to prevent this from happening again would be to wipe everything down after each set of kids wrestle. Seems a bit much.

Because principals and teachers are not infectious disease specialists. They don't have a clue what they are dealing with. And, they don't negotiate the contracts with the cleaning company, the school board does. So even if a high school principal thought it needed done, he/she would have to appeal to the school board and the superintendent to get it done. And they habe several other budgetary things to consider. If they have to decide between an extra teacher salary or a deep clean of the school once a month, I bet I know what they will choose.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Who said they have to be "infectious disease specialists"? Don't you expect that your daycare or any other place will have basic principals of hygiene and cleanliness? Especially concerning your kids? Sorry, but they don't get to "choose" between the safety and hygiene of students and other things. They have a responsibility to keep kids safe and healthy. It really doesn't take anymore effort than some bleach and cleaning.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Who said they have to be "infectious disease specialists"? Don't you expect that your daycare or any other place will have basic principals of hygiene and cleanliness? Especially concerning your kids? Sorry, but they don't get to "choose" between the safety and hygiene of students and other things. They have a responsibility to keep kids safe and healthy. It really doesn't take anymore effort than some bleach and cleaning.

Schools have to follow the state guidelines for cleanliness just like daycares. If the state guidelines don't include a wipe down of wrestling mats then no, I don't expect the school to do it. They don't have the time or the money to do it.

"Basic principles of hygiene and cleanliness" as you put it, don't include wiping down surfaces with bleach and preventing MRSA. Honestly I think that goes beyond the scope of basic and beyond what most teachers and principals know and are comfortable doing.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

A nice coat of lysol before putting the mats up would probably do it.

Our weight room was sprayed down every day. Last one out, sprayed.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well then they can "get comfortable".

Ohfour · Hooker

This isnt a deep clean. It bleaching of mats. Takes 15 minutes if they make the kids do it. Problem solved...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nooo ! Its impossible without an act of Congress. Apparently teachers and staff are too dumb to train!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Nooo ! Its impossible without an act of Congress. Apparently teachers and staff are too dumb to train!

Not too dumb. It. Just isn't in the scope of their training in college. If you want them to do it, you need to spell it out in their contracts.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

For someone on a school board you sure aren't sounding like it.

Teachers do what is in their contracts. Period.

Kids are not allowed to do anything that may injure them. Period.

And the budgets are so tight, they can't squeeze anything else out. Period.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.

That covers the training. You still need to write it into their contracts and train any teachers going forward who may not have been in attendance in the inservice say - hired at a later date, etc.

Look, I basically agree with you. I am just saying that it isn't what teachers are trained for, it isn't written into their contracts, and we already ask them to do a lot. So if you want them to take care of it, you need to give them the tools to take care of it and not assume they magically know what to do and how to do it. It isn't impossible but like anything else, it needs to be planned for and accounted for if you want it done correctly.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.

Wouldn't it be easier to ask the CLEANING service to do the cleaning?! Yes, it will cost more. But they are professionals who are trained to clean. Why ask a teacher to do the cleaning service's job? Would you ask the cleaning service to drill your child's math facts with them?!

weltschmerz · Guru

www.staph-infection-resources.com/prevention/infection-control/

Ohfour · Hooker

lilyofcourse wrote:
For someone on a school board you sure aren't sounding like it.

Teachers do what is in their contracts. Period.

Kids are not allowed to do anything that may injure them. Period.

And the budgets are so tight, they can't squeeze anything else out. Period.

Cleaning their own mess doesn't injure them. Its really a simple solution. All the schools here make the parents and the kids clean the mats each time they are used....

weltschmerz · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
www.staph-infection-resources.com/prevention/infection-control/

Bleach could be corrosive and toxic. I could see parents howling if their special snowflakes inhale bleach fumes, as it has to be mixed fresh every time.

I prefer hydrogen peroxide wipes...we use those a LOT at the hospital where I work.

Ohfour · Hooker

No one here howls about it. If they did, their kid would not be on the team. Its just part of it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
For someone on a school board you sure aren't sounding like it.

Teachers do what is in their contracts. Period.

Kids are not allowed to do anything that may injure them. Period.

And the budgets are so tight, they can't squeeze anything else out. Period.

Cleaning their own mess doesn't injure them. Its really a simple solution. All the schools here make the parents and the kids clean the mats each time they are used....

I think they should.

But these are reasons they dont.

I have a stack of waivers to sign for science class. I truly doubt the school would allow the kids to use bleach.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Like I said, a good spray of lysol before putting up the mats would do it.

Ohfour · Hooker

Well, when we signed up for wrestling, we had a meeting that went over all the rules. Then we signed the rules form. One of the rules was we had to clean the mats. I dont know anyone that didnt sign. I do know kids that refused to clean up. They were kicked off the team.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And it should be part of being on the team. I'm in complete agreement.

Ohfour · Hooker

Heck, even when my son played rec ball, we had to work and clean the concession stand 3 times each season and had to keep the book/run the scoreboard. We had to rake the field after each game. Parents have to be more involved. And if it takes forcing them to do it, then so be it....

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.
Wouldn't it be easier to ask the CLEANING service to do the cleaning?! Yes, it will cost more. But they are professionals who are trained to clean. Why ask a teacher to do the cleaning service's job? Would you ask the cleaning service to drill your child's math facts with them?!

I am not the one who said TEACHERS should you do all the cleaning. You seemed to have jumped to that. I said we need to look at Infection Control in a real way. Involve the School Nurse and maintenance Dept and coaching staff for their related sports. I don't think I said anything about teachers cleaning the gym mats. But, yes, absolutely, teachers should be taught basic infection control protocol for maintaining a safe classroom. Kids sneeze, throw up, have drippy noses and on and on. So, part of their job is to recognize hazards in that regard as well.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.

Did this refer to the teachers or the cleaning service?

I said teachers are not responsible for deep cleaning and aren't infectious disease specialist, have no training in that area and you countered with this.

Teachers are actually not responsible for cleaning their classrooms. They make sure trash is picked up and in the can, and the boards are cleaned. Why you would need an inservice day for that, I have no idea.

They sometimes do clean up bloodily fluids, as in vomit or urine. However most schools will have the teacher remove the other students from the area and call the janitor to clean it up. If a teacher is cleaning up a bodily fluid, they cannot supervise their students properly (They would have to leave the students to get the bleach, gloves, etc).

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.
Wouldn't it be easier to ask the CLEANING service to do the cleaning?! Yes, it will cost more. But they are professionals who are trained to clean. Why ask a teacher to do the cleaning service's job? Would you ask the cleaning service to drill your child's math facts with them?!
I am not the one who said TEACHERS should you do all the cleaning. You seemed to have jumped to that. I said we need to look at Infection Control in a real way. Involve the School Nurse and maintenance Dept and coaching staff for their related sports. I don't think I said anything about teachers cleaning the gym mats. But, yes, absolutely, teachers should be taught basic infection control protocol for maintaining a safe classroom. Kids sneeze, throw up, have drippy noses and on and on. So, part of their job is to recognize hazards in that regard as well.

Again...why not just involve the cleaning service ??? The very people already tasked with cleaning the school?!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

MM, I am referring to both. Infection control is the responsibility of everyone. In a hospital, just because you dont' clean the floors doesn't mean you don't have responsibility and a level of training. Teachers do need more training. They no longer deal with just healthy kids. There are kids mainstreamed now on ventilators with all kinds of medical issues. Nobody is saying that they should be medical professionals. Of course not. But, they need some basic level of training.

As for the Inservice suggestion, you suggested that they don't know anything about infection control. And, with MRSA and many other things, teachers should absolutely be receiving training on issues pertinent to their classrooms.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is this really impossible? Wow. Have an inservice day.
Wouldn't it be easier to ask the CLEANING service to do the cleaning?! Yes, it will cost more. But they are professionals who are trained to clean. Why ask a teacher to do the cleaning service's job? Would you ask the cleaning service to drill your child's math facts with them?!
I am not the one who said TEACHERS should you do all the cleaning. You seemed to have jumped to that. I said we need to look at Infection Control in a real way. Involve the School Nurse and maintenance Dept and coaching staff for their related sports. I don't think I said anything about teachers cleaning the gym mats. But, yes, absolutely, teachers should be taught basic infection control protocol for maintaining a safe classroom. Kids sneeze, throw up, have drippy noses and on and on. So, part of their job is to recognize hazards in that regard as well.
Again...why not just involve the cleaning service ??? The very people already tasked with cleaning the school?!

Well, I think I said that already. I was told they can't do it because they have to fix the boiler. I think if you go back you will see that I clearly did.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

No, I said the janitor fixes the boiler and does other "big picture" tasks. The janitor works during the day while the kids are in school. The cleaning service works after school hours and only cleans the school superficially.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Your school operates differently than ours. Our cleaning crew and maintenance are all employees of the District and under the Supervision of our Director of Maintenance.