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Post Info TOPIC: Gay Couples Sue Florida to Put Both Names on Children’s Birth Certificates
Lady Gaga Snerd


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Gay Couples Sue Florida to Put Both Names on Children’s Birth Certificates
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Gay Couples Sue Florida to Put Both Names on Children’s Birth Certificates

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by Breitbart News13 Aug 201597

 

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — The first couple to be issued a same-sex marriage license in Florida sued the state Thursday, saying that the Bureau of Vital Statistics still won’t allow hospitals to list both same-sex parents on birth certificates.

Cathy Pareto and Karla Arguello of Miami filed the lawsuit in federal court in Tallahassee. Pareto and Arguello had twins on Aug. 6. Two other married, same-sex couples also are part of the lawsuit.

In the hours after giving birth, Pareto said she and her wife were told by the hospital records manager that both of their names couldn’t be on the birth certificate.

“Karla and I made the decision to expand our family together,” Pareto said. “We went through the whole fertility process together. The whole thing has been a unified front as a married couple. To then be told I couldn’t be on my own children’s birth certificate? It was degrading.”

Pareto and Arguello were the first same-sex couple to legally wed in the state.

Pareto said that if, for instance, a married man and woman had fertility problems and the couple had to use a sperm donor to conceive a child, the state wouldn’t deny the husband the right to be on the birth certificate – even though he would be the non-biological father.

“Why are they questioning me because I’m not biologically tied?” she asked.

The LGBT group Equality Florida says the lawsuit challenges Florida’s refusal to issue accurate birth certificates listing both spouses as parents of their children.

Nadine Smith, the co-founder and CEO of Equality Florida, called the inability to put both names of a couple on a baby’s certificate “wrong and mean-spirited.”

“Pretty much almost every other state has already done this. They did it; they did it right,” Smith said. “Florida’s going to waste time, waste money and leave parents who should be celebrating the birth of their child in uncertainty because both parents aren’t included on the birth certificate.”

The state Department of Health says it does not generally comment on pending litigation. The department on Thursday filed a motion for clarification involving the state statutes regarding the wording on birth certificates.

Florida’s ban on same-sex marriage ended Jan. 6

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/13/gay-couples-sue-florida-to-put-both-names-on-childrens-birth-certificates/



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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This is really getting stupid. Birth certificates should be about biology, period. Not the Social Agenda.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

This is really getting stupid. Birth certificates should be about biology, period. Not the Social Agenda.

 They do have a point about heterosexual couples with fertility problems.



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My guess is the form asks for mother and father, not mother and mother.

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If hetero couples who are not biologically related are allowed on the birth certificate then the same sex couple should also be allowed to list the name of the non-biological parent. Why must everything be so damn difficult when it affects no one but them?

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Tinydancer wrote:

If hetero couples who are not biologically related are allowed on the birth certificate then the same sex couple should also be allowed to list the name of the non-biological parent. Why must everything be so damn difficult when it affects no one but them?

I think we birth certificates, the father is the presumed bio father.  That is kind of how it always was.  Obviously, you can't assume that another mother is the bio dad. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Tinydancer wrote:

If hetero couples who are not biologically related are allowed on the birth certificate then the same sex couple should also be allowed to list the name of the non-biological parent. Why must everything be so damn difficult when it affects no one but them?

However, I would agree that govt needs to just butt out of our lives period.  Why do we need a form, a paper, a certificate to do every damn thing? 



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Lawyerlady


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A husband is always presumed the father. It has to be proven otherwise. But, it's pretty much for certain that the other mom is not the father.

Besides - they haven't even worked through all the custody issues this is going to create. It's going to be a MESS.

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Tinydancer


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Who cares what people assume? Not all men listed on birth certificates are biologically related but we have to bust a gasket because two women are listed. Geez let's find something important to worry about.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Nobody is "busting a gasket". They are the ones filing a lawsuit, not the other way around.

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As well they should. If non-biological men can be listed then it should be the same for ALL parents. "Busting a gasket" was just a figure of speech and not directed at you LGS...lol

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Tinydancer wrote:

As well they should. If non-biological men can be listed then it should be the same for ALL parents. "Busting a gasket" was just a figure of speech and not directed at you LGS...lol

OH, well, I have busted a few gaskets in my day!  Ha!  But, yes that is a good point about infertility.  I guess they should try to list BIO parents and Legal parents? 



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FNW


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Again, I suspect it's a matter of just having to change the forms from mother and father, to parent 1 and parent 2. Not everything is about discrimination.

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Not discrimination but maybe a little resistance to change.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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FNW wrote:

Again, I suspect it's a matter of just having to change the forms from mother and father, to parent 1 and parent 2. Not everything is about discrimination.

OK.  But, what if there are 3 parents.  Man's sperm, other mother's donated egg and then implanted into mom #2? 



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Tinydancer wrote:

Not discrimination but maybe a little resistance to change.

 Huh?  We are talking about a form the Government creates.  The hospital can't change that.  It has zero to do with resistance to change and everything to do with how slow the Government is.  Government does nothing proactively, it takes court actions such as this to get the form changed.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
FNW wrote:

Again, I suspect it's a matter of just having to change the forms from mother and father, to parent 1 and parent 2. Not everything is about discrimination.

OK.  But, what if there are 3 parents.  Man's sperm, other mother's donated egg and then implanted into mom #2? 

 BC are about legal parents.  And now you are just being ridiculous as if we would ever recognize more than two parents in this country.wink



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My friend's DIL used donor eggs. When you do this, you sign a contract, and the donor signs a contract, turning "ownership" over to the couple who will be raising the children, i.e., DIL and her husband. There is no need to identify the donor on the birth certificate, because she is not the parent, she merely donates her eggs. Much like someone receiving a heart, or liver, or kidney. An organ recipient does not need to add the donor's name to their BC suddenly because they received a piece of someone else.

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I think it is just a matter of the form. The hospital probably does not care but must follow the form until a change to the form or a court order. The women want to be equal parents and to protect the one rights as a parent.



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:

Not discrimination but maybe a little resistance to change.

 Huh?  We are talking about a form the Government creates.  The hospital can't change that.  It has zero to do with resistance to change and everything to do with how slow the Government is.  Government does nothing proactively, it takes court actions such as this to get the form changed.

 I WAS talking about the Government. Why can't they just change the form? It's got nothing to do with discrimination and that was my point.



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cadiver wrote:

I think it is just a matter of the form. The hospital probably does not care but must follow the form until a change to the form or a court order. The women want to be equal parents and to protect the one rights as a parent.

 A name on a birth certificate doesn't give you legal rights.  And I can tell you - it's going to be an uphill battle for the non-bio parent if they split up. 



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FNW wrote:

Again, I suspect it's a matter of just having to change the forms from mother and father, to parent 1 and parent 2. Not everything is about discrimination.

 That would be the logical solution.



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I like the "Parent 1", "Parent 2" idea. As long as non-biological fathers are permitted on birth certificates, there should be no bias against same-sex parents being on there.

I also like the idea of "Custodial Parent 1", "Custodial Parent 2", "Biological Mother", "Biological Father" (4 different blanks) on the birth certificate. Because there are some instances, such as hereditary medical issues, whereby the biological parent's information could come in handy. If the custodial parents and biological parents are the same, then they could put "See CP1" and "See CP2" in the appropriate "Biological Mother" and "Biological Father" blanks, or just duplicate the entry.

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WYSIWYG wrote:

I like the "Parent 1", "Parent 2" idea. As long as non-biological fathers are permitted on birth certificates, there should be no bias against same-sex parents being on there.

I also like the idea of "Custodial Parent 1", "Custodial Parent 2", "Biological Mother", "Biological Father" (4 different blanks) on the birth certificate. Because there are some instances, such as hereditary medical issues, whereby the biological parent's information could come in handy. If the custodial parents and biological parents are the same, then they could put "See CP1" and "See CP2" in the appropriate "Biological Mother" and "Biological Father" blanks, or just duplicate the entry.

 Family Court couldn't handle that complication when deciding CS and visitation.  Given more than 50% of marriages, including gay marriage, end up in divorce, that suggestion would clog the system worse than it already is.



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Lawyerlady wrote:

A husband is always presumed the father. It has to be proven otherwise. But, it's pretty much for certain that the other mom is not the father.

Besides - they haven't even worked through all the custody issues this is going to create. It's going to be a MESS.

 



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I'm going to laugh my ass off when they split up and the actual bio mother wants full custody and this comes back to bite her in the ass.

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And that is exactly what Will happen lol.

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Um, they've already had cases of this. There was a case in NY where a gay couple got married, had a kid, and then divorced. I read about it awhile back. The bio mom wanted child support from her ex female partner. The partner claimed she never wanted to be a parent and now the other one was just using her for an ATM. I don't know what happened in that case but if the child is not biologically hers I'm not sure what the laws can/will do. This whole thing is going to be a mess. People say and do one thing when they're in love and then when the relationship fails and they split up it's a whole different story. Usually he said/she said but in these cases she said/she said.

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Speaking of which, I wonder how Squeakers is doing.

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This isn't directed at your comment FNW, but heterosexuals get ugly when they divorce. When you're young and in love you make all these grand plans and then life hits you and when couples can't or won't deal with it and divorce is pending people get ugly. They say or do anything to get out of the marriage. I don't think homosexual marriages are going to be any different when they split.

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I think they will be uglier, NJN. They're already angry at society for not accepting their orientation, coupled with the fact that their expectations were not met...

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FNW wrote:

I think they will be uglier, NJN. They're already angry at society for not accepting their orientation, coupled with the fact that their expectations were not met...

 Plus the fact is that no matter how you slice it, one of them IS NOT the bio parent.  That will come into play both in visitation rights and responsibility for child support.



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FNW wrote:

I think they will be uglier, NJN. They're already angry at society for not accepting their orientation, coupled with the fact that their expectations were not met...

 Thinking about this, I'd have to agree.



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So, does everybody remember Friends? I always considered it unreal that Ross didn't sue for more rights to his kid. That was 20 years ago - he would have won. His wife cheated on him and left him for her lesbian lover, and he just accepted that they would raise his kid. There was even an argument about what the kid's name would be. That always bothered me.

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And then there is the case of Sherri Shepherd. Her and her husband used a donor egg + his sperm, and then a surrogate (not the egg donor). She decided that she didn't want the child and is now on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars in child support for a child that is in no way biologically hers. You never know how the courts will rule...

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Family Court couldn't handle that complication when deciding CS and visitation. Given more than 50% of marriages, including gay marriage, end up in divorce, that suggestion would clog the system worse than it already is.
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If there were the four blanks, the ones for "Biological Mother" and "Biological Father" would only come into play in cases of medical issues, like hereditary disease. I thought I made that clear in my post. I apologize if it was confusing. "Biological Mother" and "Biological Father" would have no parental status or standing in custody issues.

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I don't see what the big deal is. Non bio parents can already be on the birth certificate, does the gender really matter?

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