I saw that!

I hope it gets signed into law.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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I don't understand how dying is a 'right"? You can off yourself anytime you want.

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 It's a step closer to killing people who are not productive or beneficial. 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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I don't understand how dying is a 'right"? You can off yourself anytime you want.

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 It's a step closer to killing people who are not productive or beneficial. 

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 Don't act like this is so insulting on this thread when you were fine with it on the other.  If you're ok with prisoners being killed, and they apparently aren't productive or beneficial, then why are you all of a sudden an advocate for life on this thread?  Your ability to reconcile and justify abhorrent behavior is downright amazing.  

flan327 wrote:

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MyNameIsJoe wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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I don't understand how dying is a 'right"? You can off yourself anytime you want.

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 It's a step closer to killing people who are not productive or beneficial. 

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 Don't act like this is so insulting on this thread when you were fine with it on the other.  If you're ok with prisoners being killed, and they apparently aren't productive or beneficial, then why are you all of a sudden an advocate for life on this thread?  Your ability to reconcile and justify abhorrent behavior is downright amazing.  

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You may just be my new board crush...(sorry, LGS!)

flan 

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 Shush up!!! Joe is ALL mine!!!! Mine I tell you!!

Mellow Momma wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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MyNameIsJoe wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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I don't understand how dying is a 'right"? You can off yourself anytime you want.

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 It's a step closer to killing people who are not productive or beneficial. 

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 Don't act like this is so insulting on this thread when you were fine with it on the other.  If you're ok with prisoners being killed, and they apparently aren't productive or beneficial, then why are you all of a sudden an advocate for life on this thread?  Your ability to reconcile and justify abhorrent behavior is downright amazing.  

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You may just be my new board crush...(sorry, LGS!)

flan 

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 Shush up!!! Joe is ALL mine!!!! Mine I tell you!!

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Oooh, MM, you think you can take me???

flan 

MyNameIsJoe wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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I don't understand how dying is a 'right"? You can off yourself anytime you want.

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 It's a step closer to killing people who are not productive or beneficial. 

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 Don't act like this is so insulting on this thread when you were fine with it on the other.  If you're ok with prisoners being killed, and they apparently aren't productive or beneficial, then why are you all of a sudden an advocate for life on this thread?  Your ability to reconcile and justify abhorrent behavior is downright amazing.  

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 I know you. Your posting is familiar. Can't put my finger on it yet but I will.

And don't get it twisted. You show me a single post in which I said it was ok on the other thread. 

I didnt.

Now. I know I am able to post on multiple threads and leave the argument on each thread. 

Are you?

 

Again, you want to judge a situation AFTER the fact.

I dont.

My compassion is just fine.

I feel for the police officers who had to deal with that woman and now have to live with her death.

She was a CRIMINAL IN JAIL.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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And this little nugget in the OP is the beginning of being able to kill mentally ill people just because the family doesn't want to deal with them.

You want to fight for a cause, be sure you understand what you are fighting for.

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 We actually DO, Lily.

flan

Maynard could have killed herself. Rope is cheap. Most of thepts of Kevorkian could have easily killed themselves.

Tinydancer wrote:

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Next we'll be feeling sorry for the father who kills his whole family to save them from the shame he created...Oh wait you've all already done that (excluding LGS who I believe doesn't buy into killing innocent people) on so many other threads. The embracing of death I just don't understand.

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 Nope - not me. He was a coward and a fool who murdered his family. He gets no sympathy from me. 

I think a better step is to require people to have Advanced Directives. To have more honest and frank discussion about End of Life decisions. I think I would like to see a medical team have a sit down with the patient and family and be frank and honest about what they are suffering. Yes, there are many doctors who do this. But still a lot who don't. And, there is often a tipping point. The point where further aggressive medical treatment no longer prolongs one's life but simply prolongs one's death. There was a point when my mom was ill and deteriorating physically and mentally where she hit the point of no return. And, so then we said no more to medical interventions other than comfort measures.
And, I think hospice does a fantastic job. I have no problem with sedating someone heavily at the end of their life and keeping them comfortable to await the inevitable. I have no problem with refusing IV fluids or feeding tubes or dialysis or any other medical intervention when you are dying. In olden days, if great grandma had a stroke and couldn't eat or drink, she simply went home to be surrounded by family to die.

And, one other point. Dying is not simply about the person dying. It is a process for humanity. There is something sacrosanct about our own mortality. I feel that my mother's death was a valuable lesson in dying and living. I helped her transition. I sat by her bed and held her hand. I spent months being there for her. It is really far more than simply just dying and getting out of the way of the living. Dying isn't supposed to be easy. We aren't happy unless we can wrap things up into neat and tidy packages. Life ins't like that and neither is the process of dying.

Thank you. I do agree that the "do everything possible at all costs" is not necessarily the best approach either. And, yes, I don't want people to suffer at the end of their lives. When my mom was first admitted to the home, she was crying and hysterical and having issues of dementia. That was very painful! And, the doctor had ordered sedatives and antipyschotics but only PRN (as needed), so the nurses were not giving her those medications! I talked to the nursing supervisor and then contacted the Doctor and he changed the order so that it was given every 6 hours.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Thank you. I do agree that the "do everything possible at all costs" is not necessarily the best approach either. And, yes, I don't want people to suffer at the end of their lives. When my mom was first admitted to the home, she was crying and hysterical and having issues of dementia. That was very painful! And, the doctor had ordered sedatives and antipyschotics but only PRN (as needed), so the nurses were not giving her those medications! I talked to the nursing supervisor and then contacted the Doctor and he changed the order so that it was given every 6 hours.

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 That was my mother's approach. I hope I will be strong enough to choose differently.

flan

When people are choosing their health care agent, they really need to take into consideration WHO should be the ones making the decision based upon their ability and personality and not simply that they are my "only" or "oldest" child, etc.

You need to choose someone that can accept reality, accept YOUR wishes, and not be haunted forever by having to follow through with what you want.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Well, I told DD, that is most likely on her. I find that the daughters are USUALLY the ones making those decisions.

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 Put it in writing.  The last thing you want is your kids fighting over it.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Well, I told DD, that is most likely on her. I find that the daughters are USUALLY the ones making those decisions.

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 Put it in writing.  The last thing you want is your kids fighting over it.

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Nope, my younger brother has always been the "golden child." I hated the way he allowed Dad to be treated.

flan 

For those of you hailing this--remember, it's only a VERY short step from you deciding this, to someone else doing so. Someone you may not like or agree with.

Do you want me making this decision for you?

Careful what you wish for.

flan327 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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For those of you hailing this--remember, it's only a VERY short step from you deciding this, to someone else doing so. Someone you may not like or agree with.

Do you want me making this decision for you?

Careful what you wish for.

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I'm still in favor of a person being allowed to decide for themselves.

flan 

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If you think that is where it will stay, I have some beachfront property in Wyoming you might be interested in.

Other nations that have went down this path, especially ones with single-payer health care systems, didn't take long to extend it so that other people decide your fate.

 

flan327 wrote:

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And same-sex marriages lead to bestiality...

flan

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Well, they are certainly leading to the erosion of free speech and religion.  There is already a case in the courts involving polygamy. 

It may not be far behind.  

lilyofcourse wrote:

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People have tunnel vision. They see the one thing but fail to see the ripple effect.

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People's minds are often closed. No matter what the facts are, they see what they WANT to see.

flan 

I think a better step is to require people to have Advanced Directives. To have more honest and frank discussion about End of Life decisions. I think I would like to see a medical team have a sit down with the patient and family and be frank and honest about what they are suffering.

 

That's what that dingbat, Sarah Palin, was calling a "Death Panel".

flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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People have tunnel vision. They see the one thing but fail to see the ripple effect.

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People's minds are often closed. No matter what the facts are, they see what they WANT to see.

flan 

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Exactly.  You are describing your views perfectly.