TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: Rare Graphic Planned Parenthood Video Clip : WARNING Breaking News CNN FOX Will Not Show

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, this is a hard topic. But, it is clear. Abortion is the murder of a human being. We can't pretend not to see like we did in the 70's. We have knowledge we didn't used to have. You can spin this 6 ways to Sunday. It is what it is. We either confront the reality of it or not. THIS is a human being. A child. A baby.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I have thought long and hard about abortion. But, it simply comes down to one question. IS this a baby, a human life or is it not? If it is, then killing this child is wrong. It's wrong even in the hard cases if it was a result of rape. Or, is this not a baby? Well, look at the picture and pretend it isn't/
But do you think you have the right to make that decision for another person?
flan

Flan, if it is the KILLING of another human being, then we are MORALLY obligated to stop it.

And HOW do you do that? Because if a woman can't get a safe legal abortion, there are always other ways.

And I do respect your position. I can see how strongly you feel.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
We look at genocide in northern Africa and say, Oh, My, that's terrible.

And we do nothing.
It's not our culture, they're not OUR people, and we couldn't do very much anyway.

We look at the Welfare culture here, much the same way.
We don't seem to be able to do much, and much of what we DO is counter-productive.

If we make legal abortions difficult or impossible to get, girls will die at the hands of neighborhood quacks.
That's OUR history.

And that's just stupid.

Sorry Ed. The answer IS NOT abortion.

The answer is being responsible enough to NOT get pregnant in the FIRST place.

EXPECT responsibility and you get responsibility.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I have thought long and hard about abortion. But, it simply comes down to one question. IS this a baby, a human life or is it not? If it is, then killing this child is wrong. It's wrong even in the hard cases if it was a result of rape. Or, is this not a baby? Well, look at the picture and pretend it isn't/
But do you think you have the right to make that decision for another person?
flan

Flan, if it is the KILLING of another human being, then we are MORALLY obligated to stop it.
And HOW do you do that? Because if a woman can't get a safe legal abortion, there are always other ways.
And I do respect your position. I can see how strongly you feel.
flan

We don't legalize things just because some might choose illegal means. If legal abortions weren't available, then most of these women would go on to have their babies. Can you "make" someone become a good mother? Unfortunately no. But, if a mother doesn't step up and take the personal responsibility of her OWN child, then she sucks as a human being.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:

ed11563 wrote:
We look at genocide in northern Africa and say, Oh, My, that's terrible.

And we do nothing.
It's not our culture, they're not OUR people, and we couldn't do very much anyway.

We look at the Welfare culture here, much the same way.
We don't seem to be able to do much, and much of what we DO is counter-productive.

If we make legal abortions difficult or impossible to get, girls will die at the hands of neighborhood quacks.
That's OUR history.

And that's just stupid.
Sorry Ed. The answer IS NOT abortion.
The answer is being responsible enough to NOT get pregnant in the FIRST place.
EXPECT responsibility and you get responsibility.

And, if you DO get pregnant, then be responsible as well and grow the F up and take care of your child! All we do is make excuses for people to shirk their duties.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
We look at genocide in northern Africa and say, Oh, My, that's terrible.

And we do nothing.
It's not our culture, they're not OUR people, and we couldn't do very much anyway.

We look at the Welfare culture here, much the same way.
We don't seem to be able to do much, and much of what we DO is counter-productive.

If we make legal abortions difficult or impossible to get, girls will die at the hands of neighborhood quacks.
That's OUR history.

And that's just stupid.
Sorry Ed. The answer IS NOT abortion.
The answer is being responsible enough to NOT get pregnant in the FIRST place.
EXPECT responsibility and you get responsibility.

Sorry, I have to agree with Lily. ed has this thing about every single person is having sex. And if we don't give them all abortions we're going to be stuck supporting them on welfare. How about teaching prevention? If you can all these girls how to get an abortion, and most of them are very clear on how it works, you can teach them to prevent it. I'm so damn sick and tired of people using abortion as birth control. And also, maybe, just maybe, some of them might learn from their "mistakes". People are capable of learning. Quit making excuses for the poor by saying they are too dumb to know better. They sure can learn how to prevent if they want to.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

ed11563 wrote:
We look at genocide in northern Africa and say, Oh, My, that's terrible.

And we do nothing.
It's not our culture, they're not OUR people, and we couldn't do very much anyway.

We look at the Welfare culture here, much the same way.
We don't seem to be able to do much, and much of what we DO is counter-productive.

If we make legal abortions difficult or impossible to get, girls will die at the hands of neighborhood quacks.
That's OUR history.

And that's just stupid.
Sorry Ed. The answer IS NOT abortion.
The answer is being responsible enough to NOT get pregnant in the FIRST place.
EXPECT responsibility and you get responsibility.

And, if you DO get pregnant, then be responsible as well and grow the F up and take care of your child! All we do is make excuses for people to shirk their duties.

Lindley · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, this is a hard topic. But, it is clear. Abortion is the murder of a human being. We can't pretend not to see like we did in the 70's. We have knowledge we didn't used to have. You can spin this 6 ways to Sunday. It is what it is. We either confront the reality of it or not. THIS is a human being. A child. A baby.

Technology has proven it is a baby not a blob of cells we use to believe it was. It is a baby and they deserve to have a advocate to save their lives. They are helpless and defenseless and do not have a choice.

My sil, had to have a ultrasound at 3 months and she got to see her baby swimming around in utero. He was very much alive.

Dang auto Correct

-- Edited by Lindley on Tuesday 6th of October 2015 01:58:19 PM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, and now that we have seen. We cannot UNsee. Unless we choose to ignore our own conscience.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, and now that we have seen. We cannot UNsee. Unless we choose to ignore our own conscience.

A person has to have a conscience before they ignore it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, and now that we have seen. We cannot UNsee. Unless we choose to ignore our own conscience.
A person has to have a conscience before they ignore it.

The insults just keep coming.

flan

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, and now that we have seen. We cannot UNsee. Unless we choose to ignore our own conscience.
A person has to have a conscience before they ignore it.
The insults just keep coming.
flan

Flan, that was not an insult. That was an observation in general.

That's how I read it.

MyNameIsJoe · Member

Not my place to tell anyone what to do with their own body. Women aren't incubators. I trust them to make their own decisions and I can't imagine why my opinion would matter. If they want a legal procedure that some people consider murder, fine. The constitution allows it. It has no bearing on my life if a stranger in Timbuktu has an abortion. To act like it's my business is arrogant.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

just Czech wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, and now that we have seen. We cannot UNsee. Unless we choose to ignore our own conscience.
A person has to have a conscience before they ignore it.
The insults just keep coming.
flan
Flan, that was not an insult. That was an observation in general.
That's how I read it.

And I read it as anyone who was pro-choice did NOT have a conscience.

I can assure you that I do.

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

MyNameIsJoe wrote:
Not my place to tell anyone what to do with their own body. Women aren't incubators. I trust them to make their own decisions and I can't imagine why my opinion would matter. If they want a legal procedure that some people consider murder, fine. The constitution allows it. It has no bearing on my life if a stranger in Timbuktu has an abortion. To act like it's my business is arrogant.

I used to feel this way. Then I changed.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

MyNameIsJoe wrote:
Not my place to tell anyone what to do with their own body. Women aren't incubators. I trust them to make their own decisions and I can't imagine why my opinion would matter. If they want a legal procedure that some people consider murder, fine. The constitution allows it. It has no bearing on my life if a stranger in Timbuktu has an abortion. To act like it's my business is arrogant.

To the bolded, then nothing is your business.

You either stand for something or you stand for nothing.

Lindley · Guru

MyNameIsJoe wrote:
Not my place to tell anyone what to do with their own body. Women aren't incubators. I trust them to make their own decisions and I can't imagine why my opinion would matter. If they want a legal procedure that some people consider murder, fine. The constitution allows it. It has no bearing on my life if a stranger in Timbuktu has an abortion. To act like it's my business is arrogant.

Slavery was once legal under the constitution! Good thing a lot of people made it their business to correct that.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

We can not undo science.

The science of human life is now suggesting that pain receptors are functioning at 14 weeks gestation. Now rectify that with abortion.

People are either moral or they are not. If people can justify the ripping apart of a human being that can feel pain, something is seriously wrong with our society.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I wish there was a link to the video. I cannot see it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

WYSIWYG wrote:
I wish there was a link to the video. I cannot see it.

I think that has to do with your computer settings. I can't see links either if they are posted on the board. I can get them in pm and would gladly pm it to you if you wish.

WYSIWYG · Guru

It's probably more due to having to go through proxy servers to be on the board.

I can probably get the video to run if I have the actual link to it and not a post with it as an imbedded item

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

MyNameIsJoe wrote:
Not my place to tell anyone what to do with their own body. Women aren't incubators. I trust them to make their own decisions and I can't imagine why my opinion would matter. If they want a legal procedure that some people consider murder, fine. The constitution allows it. It has no bearing on my life if a stranger in Timbuktu has an abortion. To act like it's my business is arrogant.

They already made the decisions when they got pregnant in the first place. They made the decision to have sex without sufficient birth control. That's a decision that has consequences.

And lots of things are legal - it doesn't mean they are moral.

And PLEASE don't just throw back the rare cases of rape and incest, because those are the rare exceptions, not the norm.

ed11563 · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
It's probably more due to having to go through proxy servers to be on the board.

I can probably get the video to run if I have the actual link to it and not a post with it as an imbedded item

Let's see if this works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VnmoOmAsv5o

WYSIWYG · Guru

I got your PM, Nobody Just Nobody. Thanks for the link. The link worked just fine.

I am still pro-choice (with a hope that they choose not to).

I do agree that the fetus in the video was obviously dead. Exposed to air and no abdominal movement nor any chest movement means it was not breathing.

I don't know, nor can anyone, it's condition before the video was shot however, nor how it was removed. It could have been a stillbirth or it could have been a late term abortion. There's no proof either way. Personally I hope it was a still birth that's being used as propaganda just as the hatchet-job edited lunch interview was.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You dont need "propsgsnda" if 5t Million dead babies doesnt already bother you. So just shrug while the bodies of innocents keep piling up.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Who says I need propaganda? I am against abortion, personally, not that I will ever have to make that choice.

I just don't feel it's my right (or anyone's) to take away the right of self determination from another person. A pregnant woman is not just an incubator with legs. She's still a human being with rights to her own body.

chef · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
Who says I need propaganda? I am against abortion, personally, not that I will ever have to make that choice.

I just don't feel it's my right (or anyone's) to take away the right of self determination from another person. A pregnant woman is not just an incubator with legs. She's still a human being with rights to her own body.

Abortion takes away that right from a person. Problem is, people refuse to acknowledge a fetus as a person. Just because a baby is termed a fetus before being born doesn't mean said baby is some foreign life form that magically becomes a person once out of the womb.

Aside from cases of rape and incest, a woman can choose to NOT be pregnant BEFORE getting pregnant. If a woman absolutely does not want a baby, she needs to do her absolute utmost to avoid pregnancy.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:

Who says I need propaganda? I am against abortion, personally, not that I will ever have to make that choice.

I just don't feel it's my right (or anyone's) to take away the right of self determination from another person. A pregnant woman is not just an incubator with legs. She's still a human being with rights to her own body.

LOL! Read your OWN statement. A child is a biologically distinct individual! Wow. And all the "your rights end where someone else's begins", this applies as well.

WYSIWYG · Guru

While I will agree that a baby is an individual person, while it is a fetus it is not a separate individual. When two sets of rights are in direct opposition and only one can have priority, I say the rights that get priority belong to the pregnant woman. At least until viability.

I hope she chooses to carry the fetus to term, but her rights to her own body count more than anyone else's rights to her body.

Tinydancer · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
While I will agree that a baby is an individual person, while it is a fetus it is not a separate individual. When two sets of rights are in direct opposition and only one can have priority, I say the rights that get priority belong to the pregnant woman. At least until viability.

I hope she chooses to carry the fetus to term, but her rights to her own body count more than anyone else's rights to her body.

So her discomfort trumps a dead baby. Got it because that makes moral sense.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Apparently you don't "got it".

Her rights to her body trump anyone else's rights to her body.

Tinydancer · Guru

Her body experiences discomfort and maybe her LIFE is inconvenienced as well but that baby is dead.

chef · Guru

If control over her body is so important to her, a woman should make certain to control her reproductive ability in the first place rather than giving control of her reproductive ability to her sexual partner and/or an abortionist.