TOTALLY GEEKED!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

RE: Arming teachers

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

I'm not sure there is a great alternative.

Truly, what difference would there be between armed guards and trained, armed teachers? Except, of course, substantially less cost.

The difference? YOu don't think there is a difference between a retired cop as a security guard and a teacher? YOu think they are interchangeable somehow? Wow.

Teachers can be trained. The only difference between a teacher who has taken a gun class and a security guard who has taken a gun class is perception.

Besides a security guard is open and an easy target to take out first, whereas the teachers would be unknown.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

I'm not sure there is a great alternative.

Truly, what difference would there be between armed guards and trained, armed teachers? Except, of course, substantially less cost.

The difference? YOu don't think there is a difference between a retired cop as a security guard and a teacher? YOu think they are interchangeable somehow? Wow.
Teachers can be trained. The only difference between a teacher who has taken a gun class and a security guard who has taken a gun class is perception.
Besides a security guard is open and an easy target to take out first, whereas the teachers would be unknown.

The unknown is the key. It would put fear into those freakin' nut jobs and THAT is the deterrent.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

My one drawback would be the stranger vs the student.

Would a teacher be able to shoot their own student if that were the situation?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.

What difference would it make if it were a security guard or a teacher? none

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.

I just don't see any difference between a trained teacher and a trained rent-a-cop.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.
I just don't see any difference between a trained teacher and a trained rent-a-cop.

Seriously? Cops have experience dealing with criminals. Experience at being fired on or acting in dangerous situations.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.
I just don't see any difference between a trained teacher and a trained rent-a-cop.

Seriously? Cops have experience dealing with criminals. Experience at being fired on or acting in dangerous situations.

Rent a cops are not cops. They have no extra training that a regular CCP holder has...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are people going to accept collateral damage from a teacher if an innocent child is accidently killed? Sorry, but most teachers didn't go into teaching with the notion of acting as armed defenders. They aren't trained for that. If you think you can just give some one hour course and somehow equate that to years of training in the criminal justice system, I think that is being very naïve. As I said, I want guns at school. But, I want them in the hands of security.
I just don't see any difference between a trained teacher and a trained rent-a-cop.

Seriously? Cops have experience dealing with criminals. Experience at being fired on or acting in dangerous situations.

Most security guards are NOT cops.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Most of the Schools around here wind up employing retired Cops. As for security, many of those folks do have criminal justice degrees or backgrounds.

cadiver · Senior Member

This seems a lot of talk about gun control. Why have any checks and only allow teachers to carry?

Utah allows any concealed carry person to carry on school.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Most of the Schools around here wind up employing retired Cops. As for security, many of those folks do have criminal justice degrees or backgrounds.

Not around here. Most security guards are 25-35 year old losers that get off throwing their weight around. My 21 year old step son was a security guard for about 3 months. He hated the guys he worked with, so he quit. Anyone with a carry permit can be a security guard...

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Most of the Schools around here wind up employing retired Cops. As for security, many of those folks do have criminal justice degrees or backgrounds.

If they can afford it, great. For a lot of schools that is a silly expense for a contingency that will likely never happen.

Ohfour · Hooker

Security guards monitor sites to prevent theft, vandalism, fire and other harmful situations. They're responsible for maintaining the safety of employees, residents, guests and all people within an assigned location. Security guards may be required to use force against violators, and some guards are armed with handguns, handcuffs, pepper spray and other law enforcement tools.

Required Education: High school diploma, postsecondary degree or certificate recommended
Other Requirements: State registration, licensure for firearms, on-the-job training
Projected Job Growth: (2012-2022) 12%*
Average Salary (2014): $28,040*

Source: *U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

cadiver · Senior Member

The last time this came up I remember an artile that Colorado spends about $100,000 per guard per year, probably not a rent a cop. I believe that gets to about 10 billion per year to have one guard per public school.

Teachers would be free but also have the advantage of being concealed.

But with the accidents at home with parents letting kids get access to their gun I would expect the same accidents at school to happen.

Charles Katt · Newbie

The district (a Texas ISD, by the way) that I retired from has police officers (not rent-a-cops, actual trained police officers) on staff. These are men and women who have been through a police academy and have had actual time "in the field." I always felt safe with them on campus.

ETA: I believe the above situation to be the case in most of the school districts in north central Texas, at least. Not just the bigger districts either.

-- Edited by Charles Katt on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 04:30:30 PM

huskerbb · Guru

Charles Katt wrote:
The district (a Texas ISD, by the way) that I retired from has police officers (not rent-a-cops, actual trained police officers) on staff. These are men and women who have been through a police academy and have had actual time "in the field." I always felt safe with them on campus.

ETA: I believe the above situation to be the case in most of the school districts in north central Texas, at least. Not just the bigger districts either.

-- Edited by Charles Katt on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 04:30:30 PM

But for most schools,my hat is a huge expense for an unlikely scenario.

Ohfour · Hooker

huskerbb wrote:
Charles Katt wrote:
The district (a Texas ISD, by the way) that I retired from has police officers (not rent-a-cops, actual trained police officers) on staff. These are men and women who have been through a police academy and have had actual time "in the field." I always felt safe with them on campus.

ETA: I believe the above situation to be the case in most of the school districts in north central Texas, at least. Not just the bigger districts either.

-- Edited by Charles Katt on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 04:30:30 PM
But for most schools,my hat is a huge expense for an unlikely scenario.

Good Lord, Husker! How much did your hat cost? And why should the schools have to pay for it! wink wink wink wink wink wink wink wink

huskerbb · Guru

Ha! Not sure how that got there!! Not a very good typist on an iPad.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Or, a couple of kids happen to see the concealed weapon on the teacher. THen, they make plans to jump the teacher and take his/her gun? That is a very real scenario as well.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Or, a couple of kids happen to see the concealed weapon on the teacher. THen, they make plans to jump the teacher and take his/her gun? That is a very real scenario as well.

No different than an armed guard.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Our teachers take a self defense course each year.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

OF course it is different than an armed guard. And armed guard isnt busy trying to manage a classroom of kids.

Charles Katt · Newbie

huskerbb wrote:
Charles Katt wrote:
The district (a Texas ISD, by the way) that I retired from has police officers (not rent-a-cops, actual trained police officers) on staff. These are men and women who have been through a police academy and have had actual time "in the field." I always felt safe with them on campus.

ETA: I believe the above situation to be the case in most of the school districts in north central Texas, at least. Not just the bigger districts either.

-- Edited by Charles Katt on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 04:30:30 PM
But for most schools,my hat is a huge expense for an unlikely scenario.

Post-Columbine, it's pretty much the norm. At least here it is. To me, the expense of having a school district police force is something I'd much rather deal with than having a gun in the classroom. The police officers are trained to deal with these things; teachers are not. And there is no way anyone can convince me that the class for gun licensing properly would train anyone on how to deal with possible shooter scenarios.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Charles Katt wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Charles Katt wrote:
The district (a Texas ISD, by the way) that I retired from has police officers (not rent-a-cops, actual trained police officers) on staff. These are men and women who have been through a police academy and have had actual time "in the field." I always felt safe with them on campus.

ETA: I believe the above situation to be the case in most of the school districts in north central Texas, at least. Not just the bigger districts either.

-- Edited by Charles Katt on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 04:30:30 PM
But for most schools,my hat is a huge expense for an unlikely scenario.
Post-Columbine, it's pretty much the norm. At least here it is. To me, the expense of having a school district police force is something I'd much rather deal with than having a gun in the classroom. The police officers are trained to deal with these things; teachers are not. And there is no way anyone can convince me that the class for gun licensing properly would train anyone on how to deal with possible shooter scenarios.

Not here. And we had one of those first big school shootings that showed up on the news. We still don't have guards in all the schools.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, as I said, I am opposed to it. And, I would vote against it here. However, you run your School the way you wish. If the town wishes to do that, then that is your prerogative.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Ha! Not sure how that got there!! Not a very good typist on an iPad.

I love typos...and auto correct!

flan