TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Yeah - if you are taking meds where one of the many side effects is "may cause suicidal thoughts or psychotic tendencies", it is best not to have weapons around. Although, you cannot really take knives away from people - they are a necessary tool in life.

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 Well, that's just asinine retarded.  Almost all meds have side effects.  So what you're saying is if someone is on something where there might possibly MAYBE or maybe not have a reaction they should not even be allowed to have a gun or knife?  This is the argument about locking up everyone who MIGHT commit a crime.  Believe it or not people take medicine all the time and don't go crazy and shoot someone.  In fact, I take three meds that supposedly have the side effect of making you suicidal.  Been on them long term.  No side effects.  I also take pain medication.  I don't walk around in a stupor because I routinely take a morning and evening pain pill.  I also don't think about killing people.  I also take a sleeping pill every evening.  I'm no more groggy than the next person in the middle of the night.  What a fvcked up argument to keep people from owning a gun.  Just because a certain person on this board hates people with mental illness it is not a be all and end all to stripping people of their rights. 

Now before you get all pissy with me if someone tries a new medication they need to be monitored carefully to make sure they don't suffer from side effects.

I agree that someone with dementia shouldn't have one. But that is not the statement that was made. RTL said that if you take ANY medication where the side effect is that you don't have a clear head then you shouldn't own a gun. Who gets to decide if you have a clear head? Your doctor? The gun seller? And what exactly IS a clear head. Define it. I know unmedicated people who sleep than I do and have problems waking up. And you simply can't punish people for taking a medication like Chantix to help them not smoke just because they MIGHT have a reaction to it. And what happened to privacy and HIPPA? Do you now need to start listing all the meds your on before you can own a gun? Are gun sellers going to take a medical class to help them understand which drugs are dangerous and which aren't?

Not necessarily. No. Depends on what they're on the medication for, are they monitored, are they stable? Not everyone on a psych drug is a raving lunatic.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Not necessarily. No. Depends on what they're on the medication for, are they monitored, are they stable? Not everyone on a psych drug is a raving lunatic.

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 So, exactly how involved to you think gun permitee's need to get?  Hippa and all that.  They have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to mental illness and since they will not have the time, resources or ability to individually judge every mentally ill person that wants a gun, then the meds they are prescribed are a good indication.

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 Well that's good for you because you don't take anything.  But what about people who take something, are stable, have been for decades, and recognize they have to take them to be stable.  We just deny them a gun because other people like them MIGHT commit a crime?  You seem to think that telling mentally ill people they can't get a gun is going to stop the really off balanced ones that want to kill people.  They'll just go get them illegally.  As far as suicide goes if you want to kill yourself you'll find a way, gun or no gun.

But you know what? There could be a hearing process where the mentally ill person could appeal a denial and prove they are not ill enough to be denied a gun.

What happens if you give a gun to a normal person and they develop a mental illness? What happens if you allow a person a gun and they become depressed?

And I didn't say just hand out guns willy nilly. I said everyone shouldn't automatically be denied.

Yes, people ARE saying anyone who takes meds should automatically be denied.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Not necessarily. No. Depends on what they're on the medication for, are they monitored, are they stable? Not everyone on a psych drug is a raving lunatic.

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 So, exactly how involved to you think gun permitee's need to get?  Hippa and all that.  They have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to mental illness and since they will not have the time, resources or ability to individually judge every mentally ill person that wants a gun, then the meds they are prescribed are a good indication.

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 That was what RTL said.  He feels anyone on drugs that cause you to have an "unclear mind" should not have them.  Whatever that means.  And here LL says anyone on drugs should not have them.  So no Lily that is EXACTLY what people are saying.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Not necessarily. No. Depends on what they're on the medication for, are they monitored, are they stable? Not everyone on a psych drug is a raving lunatic.

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 So, exactly how involved to you think gun permitee's need to get?  Hippa and all that.  They have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to mental illness and since they will not have the time, resources or ability to individually judge every mentally ill person that wants a gun, then the meds they are prescribed are a good indication.

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 That was what RTL said.  He feels anyone on drugs that cause you to have an "unclear mind" should not have them.  Whatever that means.  And here LL says anyone on drugs should not have them.  So no Lily that is EXACTLY what people are saying.

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 I did not say ANYONE on drugs.  I said the drugs they are prescribed is a good indication.  Prozac, for example, has become as common place as vitamins, and might not raise any alarms.  However, someone on an anti-psychotic or a really strong anti-depressant should probably not have a gun. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Not necessarily. No. Depends on what they're on the medication for, are they monitored, are they stable? Not everyone on a psych drug is a raving lunatic.

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 So, exactly how involved to you think gun permitee's need to get?  Hippa and all that.  They have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to mental illness and since they will not have the time, resources or ability to individually judge every mentally ill person that wants a gun, then the meds they are prescribed are a good indication.

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 That was what RTL said.  He feels anyone on drugs that cause you to have an "unclear mind" should not have them.  Whatever that means.  And here LL says anyone on drugs should not have them.  So no Lily that is EXACTLY what people are saying.

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 I did not say ANYONE on drugs.  I said the drugs they are prescribed is a good indication.  Prozac, for example, has become as common place as vitamins, and might not raise any alarms.  However, someone on an anti-psychotic or a really strong anti-depressant should probably not have a gun. 

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 So who gets to decide which pill is okay and which is not?  The gun dealer?  The doctors?  Who will report it?  Because a gun seller just can't call your doctor and find out what you're taking.  Talk about over burdening the system. 

My stance is still that people who want to use guns to kill will find a way to get them.  Those that don't will not be able to have a gun. 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Why are you taking this so personally?

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 Why can't I have a conversation without you accusing me of taking it personally?  I'm trying to have a normal discussion.

And if you really want to know what has irritated me it's RTL's constant references to mentally ill people.  This is just one post but he has, in the past, made several posts about mentally ill people being a burden and such.  He has made several statements about the mentally ill.  It irritates me because mentally ill people have a huge stigma in this society thanks to people like him.  There are many, many "mentally ill" people who function normally and have productive lives.  It infuriates me when someone like RTL makes the statement "I won't date people who take anything for mental illness."  That's your right but why is taking a medicine for mental illness so shameful?  Maybe we need to shame people who take thyroid medicine.  Or heart medicine.  Or better yet, let's shame diabetics.  Diabetics are a huge drain on our resources.  So it's not personal.  I'm just tired of certain people acting like mental illness is something that is horrid beyond control.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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 When I went to get my concealed carry permit, I had to answer questions under oath regarding if I was ever treated for mental illness or on any medication - I did not consider that to be out of order.  If the answer is yes - then they could provide the answers, or they could request a private hearing.  It's really NOT that difficult.

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 Devils advocate.  You lose both parents quickly within a short period of time.  You become very depressed.  You take anti depressants and get therapy to work through it.   You get off the anti depressants within a year.  Twenty years later you want to own a gun but because you were treated for mental illness you can't...

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 Then that likely isn't going to be an issue.  Our state already does it for concealed permits -

"If you've been in a mental hospital or drug treatment center within the last five years, you must ask that your county probate court judge approve your license application. The judge will seek a recommendation from the superintendent of your hospital or treatment center, and then determine whether it's safe for you to carry a gun."

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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What is "mental illness"? You need to define the terms. Is it being on a drug to help you sleep? Is it being on a drug for anxiety? What about people taking pain pills, should they be out? Who's in and who's out? And, who decides and how is that monitored? Yes, if you have any criminal background of felony crimes, then no gun. But, WHO is going to monitor this? What about Hippa? How is this system going to be set up? Will all gun shops have link to your medical records?

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 Laws are already in place for this for concealed carry permits - it just means extending it to buying a gun, too.  And then, of course, enforcing the laws. 

TrudyML wrote:

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Pass me a gun or a knife. This computer needs to die.

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LOL!

Couldn't you just accidentally spill something on it?

That should do the trick! 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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What is "mental illness"? You need to define the terms. Is it being on a drug to help you sleep? Is it being on a drug for anxiety? What about people taking pain pills, should they be out? Who's in and who's out? And, who decides and how is that monitored? Yes, if you have any criminal background of felony crimes, then no gun. But, WHO is going to monitor this? What about Hippa? How is this system going to be set up? Will all gun shops have link to your medical records?

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 Laws are already in place for this for concealed carry permits - it just means extending it to buying a gun, too.  And then, of course, enforcing the laws. 

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Yes. But, let's face it. I just renewed my concealed weapons permit. And, the questions are you answering Yes or No to those kinds of questions. Wouldn't be too hard to lie on that.

flan327 wrote:

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It's HIPAA

flan

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 Who cares?  You know what was meant.

I have only read the OP, but it is a misleading nonsense article. Knives are about an eighth of total gun deaths.

There is no comparison. You can kill more people with guns. Not sure why some people are afraid to say that. Guns are very efficient at killing. Which is part of what makes then indispensable and also what makes them so lethal.

Guns liberate women! Women can be safe with a gun. A woman can never be safe with a knife.

I used to carry a 6" switchblade in my pocket at all times. While I wouldn't have wanted to bring it to a gun fight, I did use it to defend myself one time very successfully.
The rest of the time, It was used for trimming switches on cows, cutting off bandages, cutting string, etc.

ed11563 wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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I have only read the OP, but it is a misleading nonsense article. Knives are about an eighth of total gun deaths.

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Right, the author was comparing knives to RIFLES. Which is a silly thing to do, but got the article published. 

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 No. 

It was published when the heat was on assault rifles.

That's the comparison. 

And as for the whole.

Knives are the instrument used in 20% of kills.

So, it isnt that far fetched.

 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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There is no comparison. You can kill more people with guns. Not sure why some people are afraid to say that. Guns are very efficient at killing. Which is part of what makes then indispensable and also what makes them so lethal.

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 Yep.  If you need to stop a person hopped up on drugs, you need something that will really stop them.  Furthermore, smaller people are less likely to win in a knife fight - so the gun is their best defense.

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 A gun can work from a safe distance. 

A knife is more hand to hand combat. 

How close does anyone want a potential attacker to get really?

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I was told, last warning at 15 feet, shoot for center of mass at 11 feet. Any closer they can take the gun away from you and kill you with it. 

If all you have is pepper spray, 10 feet, you have to surprise them, sweep the spray across his mouth and eyes.

I really don't see why it matters which kills more? It doesn't . That has NOTHING to do with anything. Guns are lethal. We know that. And, we need to approach them with caution in a mature way. Yeah, you don't leave unlocked loaded guns around for a 3 yr old to play with. Yes, you need to be very responsible if you handle guns. Guns are here to stay. Some of you don't like that and think that we can somehow just blink them away. The reality of our world includes guns. But, guns have resulted in great good as well. Guns have kept us from living under totalitarian regimes. Guns have helped protect women from being brutatized. Guns are a tool for good or can be used as a tool for evil.

Does anyone really believe that tighter gun laws is going to prevent someone from breaking said law? Murder is illegal and yet these crazies are doing it anyway. Stealing is against the law, yet it's done. If a person wants to kill someone, they will. Automatic weapons are illegal, yet people get them. Stricter gun laws will not result in less crime.