TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

America has never been a 'Christian' nation. Kim Davis picked the wrong issue

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb · Guru

Who has "forced" their views on who here?

Gay marriage has NEVER been the law in the U.S. until it was forced on us by the court just this year (at least for everybody).

burns07 · Guru

she followed the dictates of her conscience--good for her--she is right and nothing homosexuals can say or do will diminish the honor and rightness of her actions

WYSIWYG · Guru

Kim Davis did follow her conscience. Unfortunately her conscience led her down an unconstitutional road. Her job wasn't to uphold Christian policies. Her job was to follow the law and perform the duties of her office, one of those duties being "to give marriage licenses to any and all persons legally qualified for them". Something she swore, under oath, so help her God, to do.

Homosexual marriage may be in violation of our Christian beliefs, but it's not in violation of secular law, as the Justices ruled. This is not a theocracy, and I, for one, am glad of that.

huskerbb · Guru

Christians are to follow God's law where it conflicts with secular law.

burns07 · Guru

of the 36 states that allow homosexual marriage only 11 actually had it on a ballot for the people to decide--the other states involved were established without the input of the residents via judicial activism--in direct contravention of the will of the people

in the absence of the people to freely decide an issue and to instead have judicial activists force an issue, acts of civil disobedience are both honorable and patriotic

WYSIWYG · Guru

Christians are to follow God's law where it conflicts with secular law.
- huskerbb

_____________________________

I agree. Therefore Ms. Davis should not marry a woman, even though she has the secular right to legally do so. That is how she can follow God's Law where it conflicts with Secular Law.

WYSIWYG · Guru

of the 36 states that allow homosexual marriage only 11 actually had it on a ballot for the people to decide--the other states involved were established without the input of the residents via judicial activism--in direct contravention of the will of the people

in the absence of the people to freely decide an issue and to instead have judicial activists force an issue, acts of civil disobedience are both honorable and patriotic
- burns07

_________________________

There was no "judicial activism". Laws against homosexual marriage were in violation of the Constitution. Therefore they were stricken.

"Judicial activism" would be something like ruling in favor of Obamacare even though it's in violation of the Constitution.

Rights don't get to be decided by vote. Things decided by vote are privileges - ones that can be granted or taken away, on a whim, by the voters.

burns07 · Guru

I agree. Therefore Ms. Davis should not marry a woman, even though she has the secular right to legally do so. That is how she can follow God's Law where it conflicts with Secular Law.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

lord, what convoluted nonsense......

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

One time, a really, really long time ago, there was a king. And he made a decree that everyone in his kingdom should bow down to him daily. It was the law of the land.

And every day, at the same time, everyone would bow to him.

This made him super happy.

No one disputed this law because, hey, it's the law.

Then one day, in the crowd, there were three young men who refused to bow.

The King asked why they didn't bow. It was the law and they had to do it.

The young men said they could not. That they could not follow that law. They could not bow to man.

The King told them if they didnt, they would be punished.

The men still refused.

The King told them they would be put inside the furnace and burned for not following the law of the land.

The men were steadfast in their belief. They said they could not bow to the king. There was only one they bowed to, God.

But the king said it was the law.

The men still refused.

The King had them arrested and brought to the furnace and cast inside.

After a while, the king heard singing coming the furnace and looked in. There he saw 4 men.

The King asked his guard, how many did we put in ?

And the guard answered, 3.

The King looked again and there, in the midst was s 4th man.

The King had the furnace opened and the men brought to him. He noticed that not only were their clothes and hair in perfect condition, not even a sign of being in the furnace, they didn't even have the smell of the fire on them.

The King asked, who was that other man?

The men said, our God.

Janies Friend · Newbie

lilyofcourse wrote:
One time, a really, really long time ago, there was a king. And he made a decree that everyone in his kingdom should bow down to him daily. It was the law of the land.

And every day, at the same time, everyone would bow to him.

This made him super happy.

No one disputed this law because, hey, it's the law.

Then one day, in the crowd, there were three young men who refused to bow.

The King asked why they didn't bow. It was the law and they had to do it.

The young men said they could not. That they could not follow that law. They could not bow to man.

The King told them if they didnt, they would be punished.

The men still refused.

The King told them they would be put inside the furnace and burned for not following the law of the land.

The men were steadfast in their belief. They said they could not bow to the king. There was only one they bowed to, God.

But the king said it was the law.

The men still refused.

The King had them arrested and brought to the furnace and cast inside.

After a while, the king heard singing coming the furnace and looked in. There he saw 4 men.

The King asked his guard, how many did we put in ?

And the guard answered, 3.

The King looked again and there, in the midst was s 4th man.

The King had the furnace opened and the men brought to him. He noticed that not only were their clothes and hair in perfect condition, not even a sign of being in the furnace, they didn't even have the smell of the fire on them.

The King asked, who was that other man?

The men said, our God.

But some of us don't believe that ever occurred. It's a fable.

Kim Davis violated the law and the requirements of her office. I'm not a big fan of gay marriage, but she needs to do her job or resign.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It isn't a fable.

Nebachanezzer was a real person. This really happened.

The law is the law is the law until it goes against God's law.

Janies Friend · Newbie

lilyofcourse wrote:
It isn't a fable.

Nebachanezzer was a real person. This really happened.

The law is the law is the law until it goes against God's law.

I have no doubt he was a real king. I don't believe the story however. That's the fable part. And the law of this land is not the same as religious law. Render unto Caesar...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I will never understand why some people think it is so hard for God to perform miracles?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Janies Friend wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
It isn't a fable.

Nebachanezzer was a real person. This really happened.

The law is the law is the law until it goes against God's law.

I have no doubt he was a real king. I don't believe the story however. That's the fable part. And the law of this land is not the same as religious law. Render unto Caesar...

You are missing the point.

You follow the law of the land UNTIL it conflicts with God's law.

And God's law says if a man lays with a man, as he would a woman, it is an abomination, and his blood shall be upon his own head.

I think that's pretty clear.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I will never understand why some people think it is so hard for God to perform miracles?

Well, first you have to believe in God.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Do you not believe in God? You are very coy about your beliefs all the time. But, yeah, if you don't believe in God, then obviously, everything just magically created itself. So, if you don't believe in God, then you obviously believe in Magic. But, not so what is so difficult to believe that God can alter reality in whatever way He chooses.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Do you not believe in God? You are very coy about your beliefs all the time. But, yeah, if you don't believe in God, then obviously, everything just magically created itself. So, if you don't believe in God, then you obviously believe in Magic. But, not so what is so difficult to believe that God can alter reality in whatever way He chooses.

I've stated before that, while I don't believe in the traditional Judeo-Christian idea of God, I also do not believe that humans are the highest form of life.

flan

WYSIWYG · Guru

lord, what convoluted nonsense......
- burns07

______________________________

Why do you call it convoluted nonsense?

It seems pretty straightforward to me. We are to follow God's Law before Man's Law when they conflict. To do that, she should not marry a woman. That is her following God's Law above Man's Law. For me to follow God's Law over Man's Law, I should not marry a man.

Tinydancer · Guru

I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
Christians are to follow God's law where it conflicts with secular law.
- huskerbb

_____________________________

I agree. Therefore Ms. Davis should not marry a woman, even though she has the secular right to legally do so. That is how she can follow God's Law where it conflicts with Secular Law.

That's BS. It goes farther than that. You don't show support for such laws, either. just because you wouldnt get an abortion doesn't absolve you if you perform one.

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
Christians are to follow God's law where it conflicts with secular law.
- huskerbb

_____________________________

I agree. Therefore Ms. Davis should not marry a woman, even though she has the secular right to legally do so. That is how she can follow God's Law where it conflicts with Secular Law.
That's BS. It goes farther than that. You don't show support for such laws, either. just because you wouldn't get an abortion doesn't absolve you if you perform one.

Are you saying that Christian doctors and nurses are being forced to perform abortions?

ed11563 · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.

What ever happened to "It's none of your business, leave people alone." ???

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.
What ever happened to "It's none of your business, leave people alone." ???

That's what they want - for it not to have to be their business. People are making it their business by forcing them to participate.

ed11563 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.
What ever happened to "It's none of your business, leave people alone." ???
That's what they want - for it not to have to be their business. People are making it their business by forcing them to participate.

She should resign and file for unemployment compensation, since her job description changed to something she won't do.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.
What ever happened to "It's none of your business, leave people alone." ???
That's what they want - for it not to have to be their business. People are making it their business by forcing them to participate.
She should resign and file for unemployment compensation, since her job description changed to something she won't do.

She's an elected official - not an employee. Nice try, though.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

She can still step down.

I don't think she should stay in the position if she can't do the job.

huskerbb · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
Christians are to follow God's law where it conflicts with secular law.
- huskerbb

_____________________________

I agree. Therefore Ms. Davis should not marry a woman, even though she has the secular right to legally do so. That is how she can follow God's Law where it conflicts with Secular Law.
That's BS. It goes farther than that. You don't show support for such laws, either. just because you wouldn't get an abortion doesn't absolve you if you perform one.
Are you saying that Christian doctors and nurses are being forced to perform abortions?

Im saying there would be no difference between doing that and this situation.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She's elected. Let the voters decide.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I don't get why you don't understand that if we go along with gay marriage we are participating in sin. If you want to pretend that's ok then have at it but don't expect us to join in.
- Tinydancer

______________________________

I certainly am not suggesting that anyone "go along" or "join in" with anything that violates their beliefs. She is also free to not have a job that puts her in the position of choosing between God's Law and Man's Law. This is not a theocracy. Government is not run based on religious law. I believe that's a good thing. As long as we keep it separate we have precedent to fall back on if someday Muslims outnumber Christians and want to install Sharia Law as the law of the land.

WYSIWYG · Guru

That's BS. It goes farther than that. You don't show support for such laws, either. just because you wouldnt get an abortion doesn't absolve you if you perform one.
- huskerbb

___________________________

If you don't want to perform abortions, don't be a doctor at an abortion clinic. Isn't that simple?

In the same way, if she doesn't want to support gay marriage she shouldn't work at a place that's required by law to hand out marriage licenses to all citizens that legally qualify for them.

WYSIWYG · Guru

That's what they want - for it not to have to be their business. People are making it their business by forcing them to participate.
- Lawyerlady

_____________________________

In this case, they are going to a government office for a government document that they are legally entitled to. Where would you suggest they go of not to that office? Should the go to the local Kwiky Mart for their marriage license instead?

I believe Christians have a right to oppose gay marriage. We exercise that right by freely choosing to not be employed in an industry that is part of secular marriage, nor by being employed in any government capacity that involves marriage.

WYSIWYG · Guru

She's elected. Let the voters decide.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

________________________

Voters don't get to decide on rights. One day that might matter to us.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I thought we had settled it. The second in command was going to stamp the marriage licenses with the stamp from whatever county they were in. The mayor/governor and everyone okayed this and made it legal. It was, at that point, a legal paper. Then these two men decided that they didn't like getting their marriage license that way so they involved the ACLU and they are DEMANDING that the government MAKE Kim Davis sign the paper. Apparently, for them, getting the license wasn't the true issue at all. The true issue was bullying someone with different beliefs into doing what you want. Because if they're only concern was to get married, they could have already done so and legally.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:

She's elected. Let the voters decide.

- Lady Gaga Snerd

________________________

Voters don't get to decide on rights. One day that might matter to us.

Fine, when you decide to impeach Obama for ignoring his constitutional duties and laws, let me know. Until then, I am not going to worry about Kim Davis.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
She's elected. Let the voters decide.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

________________________

Voters don't get to decide on rights. One day that might matter to us.

Pure BS. Voters absolutely get to decide rights. How do you think the bill of rights came about in the first place?

Ohfour · Hooker

huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
She's elected. Let the voters decide.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

________________________

Voters don't get to decide on rights. One day that might matter to us.
Pure BS. Voters absolutely get to decide rights. How do you think the bill of rights came about in the first place?

Obviously not...many states voted against gay marriage. That didn't matter...

huskerbb · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
She's elected. Let the voters decide.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

________________________

Voters don't get to decide on rights. One day that might matter to us.m
Pure BS. Voters absolutely get to decide rights. How do you think the bill of rights came about in the first place?
Obviously not...many states voted against gay marriage. That didn't matter...

Yes, the courts went against more than 200 years of precedent to force unconstituional laws on people.

Ohfour · Hooker

Just saying, there has been a shift. And a new precedent has been set. Voting on rights is a thing of the past...

chef · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I thought we had settled it. The second in command was going to stamp the marriage licenses with the stamp from whatever county they were in. The mayor/governor and everyone okayed this and made it legal. It was, at that point, a legal paper. Then these two men decided that they didn't like getting their marriage license that way so they involved the ACLU and they are DEMANDING that the government MAKE Kim Davis sign the paper. Apparently, for them, getting the license wasn't the true issue at all. The true issue was bullying someone with different beliefs into doing what you want. Because if they're only concern was to get married, they could have already done so and legally.

Absolutely horrible.

They don't want equality. They want special treatment. They want people to bend to their will.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

They WANT her to FOLLOW THE LAW.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
They WANT her to FOLLOW THE LAW.

flan

What law? Please find me a statute that says she has to issue same-sex marriage licenses.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
They WANT her to FOLLOW THE LAW.

flan
What law? Please find me a statute that says she has to issue same-sex marriage licenses.

Hell,

I would like to see the law that says she has to issue marriage licenses period...

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
They WANT her to FOLLOW THE LAW.

flan

And there's the problem. Again, they want special treatment.

They don't want just any clerk to issue their license. They want HER to issue it so they can FORCE her to bend to THEIR will.

Religious freedom is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution. Deal with it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
They WANT her to FOLLOW THE LAW.

flan
And there's the problem. Again, they want special treatment.
They don't want just any clerk to issue their license. They want HER to issue it so they can FORCE her to bend to THEIR will.
Religious freedom is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution. Deal with it.

She REFUSES to do her JOB.

Deal with it.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

She's Clerk of Court. Marriage licenses are pretty much the least of her job responsibilities.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

flan, I totally disagree with you on this one. The gay couple said, IN THE BEGINNING, that this wasn't about Kim Davis. I even watched an interview with them where they said they JUST wanted a license so they could get married. They said this wasn't about Kim at all. They were looking forward to being married. Kim Davis DOES have rights. Just like the gay couple has rights. So the courts came up with a solution that SHOULD of made everyone happy. But lo and behold, once the couple was given the right to get married that, all of a sudden, was not good enough. The governor/mayor designed it so that any gay couple can come in and get their official marriage license. It's legal and all. Then they can go off and get married. So that should have made these two men happy because they claimed in the beginning that that is all they wanted. Well, after that they didn't like it that she didn't have to sign the license. So they called the ACLU and they said they won't accept a marriage license unless it's got Kim Davis's signature on it.

So my statement to you (general you) is, they don't REALLY care about getting married. If they did they'd be happy. What they care about is FORCING their beliefs on someone else. Kim Davis is not blocking the gay people from getting a license. She just doesn't want to be part of it. She is not trying to bully the gay people into not getting a marriage license. Not at all. She even thanked her second in command for signing them for her. OTOH the gay people cannot simply bully their way through life. And THAT is what this case has down to.

Ohfour · Hooker

And guess WHAT????? They STILL aren't married! The license has expired so they will have to go back to get another one.

One big ole gay publicity stunt!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

NJN,

I understand what you're saying.

flan