TOTALLY GEEKED!

I thought Jewish was part of your ethnicity. If you are a African American Baptist and become and atheist, you are still an African American are you not? I thought if you were born of a Jewish mother, then you are Jewish?

Jesus and the Jewish holidays

Although most Jews today are blind to the presence of Jesus in all of the Scriptural holidays of the Old Testament except Purim, it is exciting for believers to see how our Father pointed the way to the Messiah from the beginning.

The Scriptural holidays are Shabbat, Pesach/Passover,First Fruits, Shavuot, Rosh Hasannah, Yom Kippur,Succoth, Simcha Torah, and Purim. We have also included Chanukah. Chanukah comes from the books of First and Second Macabees, two of the eleven books that were added to the original Hebrew Scriptures in the first Greek translation, called the Septuagint.

Many of these holidays have counterparts in the New Testament.  Pesach became the celebration of the Last Supper,  First Fruits became Easter, and Shavuot became Pentacost.  Some of the Holidays are known by their English translations or interpretations: Shabbat/Sabbath, Rosh HaShannah/Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippor/Day of Atonement, Succoth/Festival of Booths, and Chanukah/Feast of Dedication.

We have complete lesson plans and Bible studies on each of these holidays.  For more information contact Nancy at His Truth Ministries. 

Shabbat/Sabbath.

The first holiday mentioned in the Bible is the Sabbath. God created the universe and everything in it in six days and rested on the seventh, declaring it to be holy. (Gen. 2:3) When the Hebrews wandered in the desert, they were to collect manna on six days. On the sixth day they were to collect enough for the seventh day. Each evening the manna that not had been consumed rotted by morning, except the manna collected on the sixth day. It was good on the seventh. Ex. 16:14-31) When He gave Moses the Law, God made remembering and observing the Sabbath the fourth commandment. (Ex. 20:8) Yet, when questioned by the Pharisees why He allowed his men to pick grain enough to eat on the Sabbath, Jesus replied that the Sabbath was made for man, not man made for the Sabbath. (Mark 2:23-27) Throughout the Old Testament God’s people are admonished to do no work and to rest on the Sabbath, to remember all that God has done for them. And, although Jesus allowed His men to pick the food they needed on the Sabbath, He did not negate or change the need for or meaning of the Sabbath. In a visit with Mary and Martha, Martha was busy getting things ready for company and dinner and complained to Jesus when her sister, Mary, was sitting at Jesus’ feet listening instead of helping Martha. Jesus answered her, "Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." (Luke 10:41-42) We should all take at least one day each week to rest and remember all that God has done for us from our very creation and breath of life through Jesus’ atoning death and glorious resurrection.

Pesach/Passover/the Last Supper.

The Hebrew calendar begins in the spring. The first holiday is Passover or, in Hebrew, Pesach. It occurs on the evening of the fourteenth of Nissan, which normally falls sometime in April in our calendar. It is the defining holiday for Jews because it commemorates when God, through many miracles, called us out of slavery to be His people. To be excluded from the plague of the death of the first born, the Hebrews had to select an unblemished lamb on the tenth of Nissan, slaughter it on the fourteenth, and paint it’s blood on the lintels, the frame, of each door. This freedom from physical slavery prestaged and foreshadowed God’s freeing us from spiritual slavery approximately 1500 years later at Passover.

On the tenth of Nissan of Jesus’ 33rd year, He rode into Jerusalem. As Passover was a pilgrimage holiday, the city was filled with Jews from many lands. On that each Jew chose an unblemished lamb for his family’s sacrifice. On that day, a multitude of Jews did, indeed, chose their unblemished lamb for their sacrifice. "A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Hosanna in the highest!" (Matt. 21: 8-9)

On the evening of the fourteenth, Jesus led the Seder service, as in every Jewish home throughout the world. On the table there were three matzos. As in every Jewish home, He took the middle matzo, blessed it and broke it. Unlike in any other home that night or at any time since, He said in breaking that matzo, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me. (1Cor. 11:224) As in every Jewish family, Jesus lifted and blessed the fourth cup of wine of the Seder service, the Cup of Redemption. "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.’" He was referring to God’s promise to Jeremiah hundreds of years before, "The time is coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." (Jer. 31:31)

Our spiritual Passover was fulfilled when Jesus, our Unblemished Lamb, was sacrificed and died on the cross the next day. All those who believe His blood was shed for us are saved from the world and saved from Hell, just as the Hebrew families in Egypt were saved from the physical death of their first born by the blood of the lambs that were shed.


First Fruits/Easter.

Although only the Orthodox Jews celebrate the festival of First Fruits today, it is a Levitical holiday, celebrated the first Sunday after the first night of Passover. It was to consecrate the first of the harvest, looking forward with gratitude to the fullness of the harvest yet to come. It was the day Jesus rose from the dead, Easter Sunday. As Paul wrote, "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep." 1Cor. 15:20

Shavuot/Pentacost. 

Seven weeks after Passover, the Jews celebrate both the barley harvest and the commemoration of Moses receiving the ten commandments. It is the holiday on which the book of Ruth is read in synagogues today around the world. One way to look at the Book of Ruth is to see it as God’s plan for redemption. Naomi, the Jewish mother-in-law, wins such love and devotion of her Moabite, pagan, daughter-in-law, Ruth, that when Naomi’s husband and two sons die and Naomi decides to go back to Jerusalem, Ruth declares, "Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (Ruth 1:16-17) Naomi represents the Jewish People. Ruth the non-believing gentile world.

When they go back to Jerusalem, Ruth comes under the protection of a wealthy distant relative of Naomi. His name is Boaz and he represents God’s protection. He eventually marries Ruth and through their marriage, Naomi is blessed and brought under Boaz’ protection too.

The Jewish apostles brought the Gospel to the gentile world. The gentiles who believed and became Christians were like a bride to Christ. Through their love, the Jews like me have been and will be brought under His protection and final covenant.

Every Shavout this story is read. Because Shavout is a pilgrimage holiday, on the Shavout following the crucifixion tens of thousands of Jews from many lands were in Jerusalem. It was to these thousands Peter spoke. "Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day." (Acts 2:41) To believers, Shavout, Pentacost, commemorates God’s giving us His Law and His freeing us from the condemnation of it.

Rosh Hasannah/Feast of Trumpets.

This holiday is not given a name in the Bible, just designated as a day which is to be celebrated. God told the Hebrews that on the first of Tishri, the seventh month, (roughly in September) they were to have a holy convocation. It was to be a day of rest and remembrance and sacrifices and the time when the trumpets, called the shofar, are to be blown. (Lev. 23:24) There is no other reason given for the holiday in the Bible. Since the only other holiday on which we are commanded to spend time remembering was Shabbat, and on Shabbat we are to remember the creation, over time the Jews associated Rosh Hashannah (Which means "Head of the Year" in Hebrew) with the anniversary of the original creation. Today Jews celebrate this holiday and date their years from the start of linking the holiday to creation, 5769 in 1999.

The importance of the holiday, though, is in the sounding of the shofar, the trumpets and the command to remember. As Christians we are to remember the sounding of the trumpets from 1Thessalonians 4:16. " For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first." It will be the sign that the Lord has returned for the church. We celebrate Rosh HaShannah, thankfully remembering that the Lord is coming back.

Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement.

The Hebrews were instructed from Exodus through Ezekial that the priests must make atonement on their behalf for their sins, even for those sins committed unintentionally or unknowingly. (Lev. 4:1-35) These sacrifices were made on a daily basis as sin offerings and guilt offerings. Once a year, on the tenth of Tishri, (in late September or early October) the high priest, the first was Aaron, was to take two perfect animals, initially goats. One goat was to be slain and it’s blood used as atonement for the sins of the whole of Israel. The other goat, after ceremonially having the sins of the whole nation transferred to it, was sent outside the camp to die. Today Orthodox Jews ceremonially kill a chicken. The other branches of Judaism spend the day in synagogues, fasting and praying as their sacrifice.

The sacrificial system only worked if the people were willing to give up their sins, to cast off their rebellious hearts and selfish ways so they could be transferred to the animal killed and to the scapegoat. The high priest could go through the motions, but it was the faith and commitment of the people that was rewarded with forgiveness and cleansing. Therein was the problem and makes obvious why we needed a personal savior. Again, it pointed to and foretold Christ’s atoning death.

The perfect animals represented Jesus. His blood was shed as our atonement and, like the scapegoat, He was taken outside the city to take upon Himself all the sins of mankind and die on Golgatha Hill. Just as with the original Yom Kippur, only those who are willing to cast off their sins, to repent and accept God’s forgiveness are cleansed by the blood of the sacrifice and are forgiven.

Succoth/Feast of Booths.

For seven days beginning the fifteenth of Tishri (mid-October), the Hebrews were told to have a festival celebrating and thanking God for the harvest. They were instructed to build booths, "Succoth", and dwell in them seven days. This holiday was to have meanings in addition to being thankful for the harvest. "Live in booths for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in booths so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in booths when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.’" (Lev. 23:42-43) Living in temporary booths also reminds us of how temporary life is. Today some Jews build booths in their back yards and eat in them. The holiday has become a time of giving, especially food to the needy, sharing the bounty the Lord has given.

During Succoth we remember that God had the Israelites live in booths when He brought them out of Egypt and that God freed them from physical slavery when He brought them out of Egypt. Jesus freed us from slavery to sin when He died and rose again. God gave food and water to their physical bodies in the desert when he gave them manna and quail. Jesus said, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."(John 6:35)

Simcha Torah.

Literally, the name of the holiday is "Happy Torah," referring to the scroll on which the first five books of the Bible are written. The day after Succoth God declared holiday, a day of rest and holy convocation. (Lev. 23:39) Like Rosh HaShannah, no reason or name is given in the Bible for this holiday. The holiday was given it’s name because the entire Torah scroll is parceled out to be read with a specific portion each week throughout the year, and on Simcha Torah after the last verses of Deuteronomy are read, the scroll is unrolled and rewound to the beginning, and the first verses of Genesis are also read. The reason for this timing is to illustrate that God’s word and God’s love are never ending.

As believers, if we so timed our reading of our Scripture, we would read the last chapter of Revelation in which Jesus declares, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Rev. 22:13) We would also read the description of the new Jerusalem. To read it and then begin at Genesis again, we gain an appreciation of the whole picture, from where we started to how it will all end and that it is Jesus who holds it all together.

Purim.

As mentioned in the beginning, although Purim is a scriptural holiday we are commanded to celebrate in the book of Esther, there is no specific tie to Jesus in Purim as there are in the other holidays. In fact, throughout the Book of Esther, the name of God is never mentioned. We are told that Mordecai and Esther, Jews who stayed in Babylonia after the return to Israel of many of the Jews who had been exiled, both prayed and fasted. Mordecai, in trying to convince Esther to tell the king, her husband, of the plot to kill her and her people, told her, "Do not think that because you are in the king’s house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?" (Esth. 4:13-14)

This book was included in the Scriptures because of this implication of Mordecai’s faith that God works in people’s lives in purposeful ways, that God put Esther in this position to save His people or His would raise up someone else who would save them. That God has a purpose for our lives and that He puts people in places for His purposes is a good thing to celebrate. God is one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and it is good to celebrate His saving power just as God.

Chanukah/Feast of Dedication.

As was mentioned in the introduction, Chanukah was not in the original nor is in the modern Hebrew Scriptures or Protestant Bibles. It comes from a group of eleven books which were added to the Scriptures during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus (284-247 BC.) when he brought 70 Jewish Scholars/Rabbis to Alexandria, Egypt, to translate the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek. The two books of Macabees tell of the uprising of the Jewish people under Antiochus of Assyria who desecrated the Temple and ordered the Jews to worship him. The uprising began in the small town of Modin when a priest name Mattithias killed another Jew who had come forth to worship the idol put by the Assyrian soldiers in the center of town. It ended with the rededication of the Temple in 165 BC. It is a festival that celebrates God’s protection and provision.

We know that Jesus celebrated Chanukah because He was in the temple in Jerusalem during the Feast of Dedication when He declared that unbelief of those in the temple was caused, despite His miracles, because those there were not His sheep, that His sheep know His voice and follow it, and that He and the Father are both separate and one. (John 10:23-30)

There are two curious things about the celebration of Chanukah that point to Christ. First is not so much the celebration of Chanukah as the celebration of Christmas. We know that for the shepherds to be out as they are described in Luke (2:8-15), it had to be spring. Yet, in 325 AD, when the Council of Nicaea decided to set a date to celebrate Christ’s birth, a celebration that is not commanded or even alluded to in the Bible, they picked December 25. The curious thing is that our month of December roughly corresponds to the Hebrew month Kislev and that Chanukah, the Feast of Dedication, begins on Kislev 25. How appropriate to tie the remembrance of our own fallen state, God’s victory and our ability to dedicate ourselves to Him to the fallen state of the Jews under Antiochus, God’s victory and their being able to rededicate the temple and themselves to Him.

The other curious thing is in the celebration of Chanukah itself. The regular lampstand used in Jewish ceremonies is called a menorah and has seven branches, symbolizing the seven days of creation. There is an enormous elaborately carved menorah in front of the Knesseth, Israel’s capitol building, in Jerusalem. Seven branches for seven days, all branches equally sized and spaced. The lampstand used for Chanukah is called a Chanukiah, but is often referred to just as a menorah. Chanukah lasts eight days, but the chanukiah does not have eight branches. It has nine. Where the standard, everyday menorah as branches of equal height and spacing, eight of the branches of the Chanukiah are of equal height and are equally spaced and the ninth is set apart, usually higher. This candle that is set above is called the shammash, the title given to a helper in a synagogue, like a combination of a deacon and secretary. This elevated candle, this shammash, is lit first and from it’s light the other eight candles are lit. The shammash, of course, is the light of the Messiah that enables the rest us to become lights in a dark world. Each night of Chanukah, as we light first the shammash then the number of candles corresponding to the day of Chanukah, we remember that it is His light that lights us.

Should all us Christians turn a blind eye towards Iran and their development of nukes? Should all us Christians cut off military support for Israel? Is that your goal, ed?

huskerbb wrote:

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Should all us Christians turn a blind eye towards Iran and their development of nukes? Should all us Christians cut off military support for Israel? Is that your goal, ed?

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 It's possible that Iran will set off their first Nuke in a ship in New York Harbor, and their second will be delivered by ballistic missile to Tel Aviv.

 

Probably at the same time.

 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Ed. Being Jewish is not a choice.

Following the Jewish Faith is.

You are how old and don't understand that?

And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

So you were 1 of a few Jewish kids in a school full of Christians.

So what if you learned some Christmas songs.

You could have been living in much worse conditions.

Does it make you feel better to know that we, Christians, understand that you Jews are God's CHOSEN PEOPLE?

That you are His number 1. His first love.

All us terrible Christians are the fostered and adopted kids.

You, the Jews, are the heir apparent.

And when you whine about how the mean old Christians made you sing Silent Night or talked to you about YOUR GOD, well, you sound like a spoiled brat.

You know who are God's favorites?

ALL OF US.

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 There ya go, ed!

The Great & Powerful Oz has spoken.

flan

ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Should all us Christians turn a blind eye towards Iran and their development of nukes? Should all us Christians cut off military support for Israel? Is that your goal, ed?

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No, I just want people to stop trying to convert me to Christianity, and I want people to stop spending my tax dollars to promote their religion. 

 

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Stop spending tax dollars to pay for abortion. And, who is spending your tax dollars on Christianity?

ed11563 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

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 Muslims have not been actively trying to convert me all my life. They just want to murder me. (and you too).

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 I wasn't talking about Muslims. 

Try again.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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The ONLY people on the planet who give a rat's arse about the existence Jews or whether Israel survives, are Christians. So, the hatred that some Jews have towards Christians is really odd.

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 No kidding.

It's rather ridiculous.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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The ONLY people on the planet who give a rat's arse about the existence Jews or whether Israel survives, are Christians. So, the hatred that some Jews have towards Christians is really odd.

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 No kidding.

It's rather ridiculous.

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 ed is merely relating HIS experiences.

flan

It's like the child who gets caught in a lie and tries to find anyone else to blame.

Well to be honest a lot of people talk to me about a lot of crap that I don't really care to listen to. I guess I'm supposed to get all butthurt and cry about that. The other day some little boy told my SS that he was an atheist and my SS was to because he doesn't go to church. This fifth grade kid told him that he was a heathen and that there was no god. He told my SS that he was atheist. There were several other things that were said too. I suppose DH and I should go to the school and raise ten kinds of cane because some bratty kid said something to hurt his precious little feelings. What we did instead was talk to him about our beliefs and values and give him ways to deal with this verbal bully. I also promised to take SS to church one day. I think DH may go with. You know, you can play the victim card all your damn life or you can take control of your life and deal with it. We all have to deal with people who approach us with thing we don't like or want to hear. You can fall to the ground because your sensibilities are hurt or you can go on with life knowing what you believe in. You can cry, or you can use the moment as a teaching moment to make your child stronger.

ed11563 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

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 Muslims have not been actively trying to convert me all my life. They just want to murder me. (and you too).

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Yet you seem to prefer that approach.   

ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

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 Muslims have not been actively trying to convert me all my life. They just want to murder me. (and you too).

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Yet you seem to prefer that approach.   

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Are you saying that because I want to nuke Tehran? 

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I'm saying that because you are whining about your kid having to sing a couple of songs in elementary school.   

ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

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 Muslims have not been actively trying to convert me all my life. They just want to murder me. (and you too).

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Yet you seem to prefer that approach.   

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Are you saying that because I want to nuke Tehran? 

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I'm saying that because you are whining about your kid having to sing a couple of songs in elementary school.   

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Not my kid, ME. 

And some of the songs were really prayers to Jesus.

 

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Either way.  So what.   

flan327 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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And why on earth are you so hateful towards the one group, Christians, that does the most to try to help those of your Faith that are persecuted?

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 Muslims have not been actively trying to convert me all my life. They just want to murder me. (and you too).

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Yet you seem to prefer that approach.   

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Are you saying that because I want to nuke Tehran? 

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I'm saying that because you are whining about your kid having to sing a couple of songs in elementary school.   

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Not my kid, ME. 

And some of the songs were really prayers to Jesus.

 

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Either way.  So what.   

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 And if YOUR kids had to sing anything BUT a Christian hymn, you would be foaming at the mouth.

flan

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BULLCRAP.

 

My kids had to sing everything BUT when they were in school.  They sang Jewish songs, Kwanza songs, songs about Santa Claus--EVERY DAMN SONG BUT songs about Jesus.   

Caitlyn learned and performed a Hanukkah song in, I think it was Arabic, for the school Christmas show.

It was beautiful. I was so proud of her. But perhaps I should have pitched a big fit then and still be whining about it now.

I think I need to go report the kid who called my SS an atheist. How dare he!

There are no Christmas songs that are prayers. ed just wants to make something out of nothing.

Being Jewish is not just a religion - ed is SOOOOOO flippin' wrong about that.


Judaism is not strictly a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East via Spain or Morocco. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries.

Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not strictly a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost 2,000 years.
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Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world.

To be Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both).

Cultural Judaism includes things such as Jewish foods, customs, and rituals. For instance, many people are born into Jewish homes and are raised eating blintzes and lighting shabbat candles, but never step foot inside a synagogue. A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism).

This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don't actively practice Judaism.

Religious Judaism includes the beliefs of the Jewish religion. The way a person practices the Jewish religion can take many forms and partially for this reason there are different movements of Judaism. The main denominations are Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, and Reconstructionist Judaism. Many people who are born into Jewish homes affiliate with one of these branches, but there are also those who do not.


If a person is not born Jewish, s/he can convert to Judaism by studying with a rabbi and undergoing the process of conversion. Merely believing in the precepts of Judaism is not enough to make someone a Jew. They must complete the conversion process in order to be considered Jewish. Though the different branches of Judaism have varying requirements for conversion, it is safe to say that the conversion process is very meaningful for whomever decides to undertake it.

Ultimately, to be Jewish is to be a member of a culture, a religion, and a peoplehood. Jews are unique in that they are one of the few, if only, "people" in the world.

They are often referred to as Am Yisrael, or the People of Israel. To be Jewish is to be many things all at once.

ed11563 wrote:

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"To be Jewish is to be many things all at once."

 

One thing a Jew is NOT is a person who believes that Jesus is/was the Son of God.

No Jew prays to Jesus.

 

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 No. No one prays to Jesus.

We pray to God.

Even the Jew Jesus.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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"To be Jewish is to be many things all at once."

 

One thing a Jew is NOT is a person who believes that Jesus is/was the Son of God.

No Jew prays to Jesus.

 

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 No. No one prays to Jesus.

We pray to God.

Even the Jew Jesus.

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Really? No one walks into their church, walks up to the front where there is a statue of Jesus on the cross, 

crosses themselves and prays to Jesus?

No one prays to St. Jude?

No one prays to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

 

 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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ed11563 wrote:

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"To be Jewish is to be many things all at once."

 

One thing a Jew is NOT is a person who believes that Jesus is/was the Son of God.

No Jew prays to Jesus.

 

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 No. No one prays to Jesus.

We pray to God.

Even the Jew Jesus.

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Um, no.  Christians pray to Jesus as a part of the Trinity.  Jesus IS God.   

The Lord's Prayer is our prayer model.

Jesus didn't say "Dear Me", He said "Our Father".

Yes. Jesus is part of the Trinity.

Ed- one of the foundations of being a Christian is to go forth and make disciples. So yes, we do want to convert you and show you the love of Jesus and have you be saved. I am sorry there have been a few that have gone about it the wrong way.