TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

RE: Staying With the Anti-Choice Doctor

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Yeah. The liberals want to focus on her indiscretion.

But what they can't see is how she actually IS doing what is right.

They can't see she took responsibility for her actions.

They can't look into the eye of someone not playing the victim card.

But wasn't she the poster child for abstinence?
I have zero idea what your last sentence even means...
flan
Her AND her mother are the poster children for life.
She and her mother are poster children for creating out-of-wedlock babies.

Better than being poster children for killing babies. This is the stupidest argument ever.
YEP! That and If its going to happen it may as well be legal...
I support the fact that Bristol, once pregnant, gave birth and is raising her baby, and that they encourage others to do the same.
What I object to is that they promote teaching only "abstinence only", knowing that it leads to unwanted pregnancies.

Abstinence is 100% pregnancy free.

And teaching abstinence only is not wrong.

So let's talk about the 20-29 year olds who are the majority of those seeking abortion because of an unwanted pregnancy.

I don't know a single person in that age range that doesn't know about birth control.

So why are adults not being responsible and using birth control?

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
If a fetus is not a baby, I'd sure like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days ...
We have answered this many times.
I had a miscarriage, then was lucky enough to give birth to 2 boys.
BUT I cannot choose for another woman.
flan
No. There have been no answers to that, especially not "many times" of answers. Saying you had a miscarriage doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if a fetus isn't a baby. Saying you cannot choose for another woman also doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if it wasn't a baby.
I either had a baby in my uterus or I didn't. A baby in utero is called an embryo for the first 8 weeks (I believe that's the cut off) then it's called a fetus. Embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, baby, toddler, child, pre-teen, teen, adult, senior, elderly ... all refer to phases of life. A human is a human at every life stage. To pretend otherwise is ignorant.
So. Again. I'd like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days. It wasn't a baby so what was it? The flying purple people eater? A dragon? Cat? Dog? Alien?
Yes, it was a dragon...
Happy now?
flan

You don't understand what I'm asking, Flan. You and others have said that a fetus isn't a baby. I've also heard the argument that a fetus isn't human. So, what IS it then? Does it magically become human upon birth?

You keep avoiding the real question but you keep responding. I would venture to guess that you, like a lot of pro-choicers, refuse to call a fetus a baby because it enables you to deny that abortion is murdering a real, live, human being whose only 'crime' is not being born yet.

Seriously, Flan. What would you have done if Itty Bitty's mom had said she was going to have Itty Bitty aborted? Would you have adopted the same 'not my body, not my choice' mantra you have here? Or would you actually care because it would have been your granddaughter's life on the line?

I frankly don't care that you're pro-choice, Flan. I do care when ANYONE devalues a human life just because that life requires a uterus to survive. Be pro-choice but pull your head out of the sand and recognize that abortion kills babies, not inanimate objects.

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:

I support the fact that Bristol, once pregnant, gave birth and is raising her baby, and that they encourage others to do the same.
What I object to is that they promote teaching only "abstinence only", knowing that it leads to unwanted pregnancies.

Abstinence is 100% pregnancy free.
And teaching abstinence only is not wrong.
So let's talk about the 20-29 year olds who are the majority of those seeking abortion because of an unwanted pregnancy.
I don't know a single person in that age range that doesn't know about birth control.
So why are adults not being responsible and using birth control?

I don't know. I also don't know why people drive somewhere then drink, knowing they will be driving home buzzed.

I do know that people drink, and then put themselves into dangerous situations while their judgement is impaired.

And some people believe magical thinking works.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:

I support the fact that Bristol, once pregnant, gave birth and is raising her baby, and that they encourage others to do the same.
What I object to is that they promote teaching only "abstinence only", knowing that it leads to unwanted pregnancies.

Abstinence is 100% pregnancy free.
And teaching abstinence only is not wrong.
So let's talk about the 20-29 year olds who are the majority of those seeking abortion because of an unwanted pregnancy.
I don't know a single person in that age range that doesn't know about birth control.
So why are adults not being responsible and using birth control?

I don't know. I also don't know why people drive somewhere then drink, knowing they will be driving home buzzed.
I do know that people drink, and then put themselves into dangerous situations while their judgement is impaired.
And some people believe magical thinking works.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Tinydancer · Guru

Magical thinking is if you don't call it a baby you can magically think it's not murder when you kill it.

Lindley · Guru

When we went to see a ultrasound of my grandson he was moving,kicking and even picking at his nose. He was very much a baby.

ed11563 · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Magical thinking is if you don't call it a baby you can magically think it's not murder when you kill it.

Yes, exactly

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:

I support the fact that Bristol, once pregnant, gave birth and is raising her baby, and that they encourage others to do the same.
What I object to is that they promote teaching only "abstinence only", knowing that it leads to unwanted pregnancies.

Abstinence is 100% pregnancy free.
And teaching abstinence only is not wrong.
So let's talk about the 20-29 year olds who are the majority of those seeking abortion because of an unwanted pregnancy.
I don't know a single person in that age range that doesn't know about birth control.
So why are adults not being responsible and using birth control?

I don't know. I also don't know why people drive somewhere then drink, knowing they will be driving home buzzed.
I do know that people drink, and then put themselves into dangerous situations while their judgement is impaired.
And some people believe magical thinking works.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Were you deflecting by asking why adults would fail to use birth control, or was I deflecting by trying to answer your question?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.

chef · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Magical thinking is if you don't call it a baby you can magically think it's not murder when you kill it.

Yep.

chef · Guru

Lindley wrote:
When we went to see a ultrasound of my grandson he was moving,kicking and even picking at his nose. He was very much a baby.

Awww!!!

When we had the anatomy scan ultrasound, DS put up with the wand for awhile then put up his hand as if saying stop it. When he small enough to have a lot of room to move around, the tech would have to chase him around the uterus because he'd scoot away as soon as the wand found him.

chef · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.

Yes.

And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?

Lindley · Guru

chef wrote:
Lindley wrote:
When we went to see a ultrasound of my grandson he was moving,kicking and even picking at his nose. He was very much a baby.
Awww!!!
When we had the anatomy scan ultrasound, DS put up with the wand for awhile then put up his hand as if saying stop it. When he small enough to have a lot of room to move around, the tech would have to chase him around the uterus because he'd scoot away as soon as the wand found him.

Lol! The little stinker😀

Tinydancer · Guru

chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?

Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
If a fetus is not a baby, I'd sure like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days ...
We have answered this many times.
I had a miscarriage, then was lucky enough to give birth to 2 boys.
BUT I cannot choose for another woman.
flan
No. There have been no answers to that, especially not "many times" of answers. Saying you had a miscarriage doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if a fetus isn't a baby. Saying you cannot choose for another woman also doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if it wasn't a baby.
I either had a baby in my uterus or I didn't. A baby in utero is called an embryo for the first 8 weeks (I believe that's the cut off) then it's called a fetus. Embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, baby, toddler, child, pre-teen, teen, adult, senior, elderly ... all refer to phases of life. A human is a human at every life stage. To pretend otherwise is ignorant.
So. Again. I'd like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days. It wasn't a baby so what was it? The flying purple people eater? A dragon? Cat? Dog? Alien?
Yes, it was a dragon...
Happy now?
flan
You don't understand what I'm asking, Flan. You and others have said that a fetus isn't a baby. I've also heard the argument that a fetus isn't human. So, what IS it then? Does it magically become human upon birth?
You keep avoiding the real question but you keep responding. I would venture to guess that you, like a lot of pro-choicers, refuse to call a fetus a baby because it enables you to deny that abortion is murdering a real, live, human being whose only 'crime' is not being born yet.
Seriously, Flan. What would you have done if Itty Bitty's mom had said she was going to have Itty Bitty aborted? Would you have adopted the same 'not my body, not my choice' mantra you have here? Or would you actually care because it would have been your granddaughter's life on the line?
I frankly don't care that you're pro-choice, Flan. I do care when ANYONE devalues a human life just because that life requires a uterus to survive. Be pro-choice but pull your head out of the sand and recognize that abortion kills babies, not inanimate objects.

You've tried this before...

I highly doubt that DIL would have TOLD me if she had an abortion.

Do you actually think you are going to change my mind?

flan

chef · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM

With very, very few exceptions, I agree.

The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
If a fetus is not a baby, I'd sure like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days ...
We have answered this many times.
I had a miscarriage, then was lucky enough to give birth to 2 boys.
BUT I cannot choose for another woman.
flan
No. There have been no answers to that, especially not "many times" of answers. Saying you had a miscarriage doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if a fetus isn't a baby. Saying you cannot choose for another woman also doesn't tell me what was in my uterus if it wasn't a baby.
I either had a baby in my uterus or I didn't. A baby in utero is called an embryo for the first 8 weeks (I believe that's the cut off) then it's called a fetus. Embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, baby, toddler, child, pre-teen, teen, adult, senior, elderly ... all refer to phases of life. A human is a human at every life stage. To pretend otherwise is ignorant.
So. Again. I'd like to know what was in my uterus for 39 weeks and 2 days. It wasn't a baby so what was it? The flying purple people eater? A dragon? Cat? Dog? Alien?
Yes, it was a dragon...
Happy now?
flan
You don't understand what I'm asking, Flan. You and others have said that a fetus isn't a baby. I've also heard the argument that a fetus isn't human. So, what IS it then? Does it magically become human upon birth?
You keep avoiding the real question but you keep responding. I would venture to guess that you, like a lot of pro-choicers, refuse to call a fetus a baby because it enables you to deny that abortion is murdering a real, live, human being whose only 'crime' is not being born yet.
Seriously, Flan. What would you have done if Itty Bitty's mom had said she was going to have Itty Bitty aborted? Would you have adopted the same 'not my body, not my choice' mantra you have here? Or would you actually care because it would have been your granddaughter's life on the line?
I frankly don't care that you're pro-choice, Flan. I do care when ANYONE devalues a human life just because that life requires a uterus to survive. Be pro-choice but pull your head out of the sand and recognize that abortion kills babies, not inanimate objects.
You've tried this before...
I highly doubt that DIL would have TOLD me if she had an abortion.
Do you actually think you are going to change my mind?
flan

Tried what? To apply your mantra to your personal life? Or are you implying something else?

I didn't ask if you think DIL would have told you. I asked what you would've done if she HAD told you. I also asked if you would remain true to the mantra you have here. Nice deflection though.

As to your question, did you not read my last paragraph? I put it in red for you. I don't care if you change your mind. I know I won't change it. I'm simply having a discussion with you and am interested if there is a point at which you would care about the unborn baby. How close does an abortion have to hit to home before you would try to talk a woman out of having an abortion?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Plenty of people devalue human life. There are some on this board that only seem to care about unborn babies. Others that have referred to the mentally ill as 'oxygen bandits'.
Fetus is a stage of human life, it is true. But, different stages of human life carry different rights. And before 25 weeks of gestation, I simply do not see gIvins a fetus the right to dictate what a woman does in regards to her medical decisions.
25 weeks is the cutoff I support, and even that I would like there to be a medically sound reason, otherwise I am happy with 20 weeks.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Plenty of people devalue human life. There are some on this board that only seem to care about unborn babies. Others that have referred to the mentally ill as 'oxygen bandits'.
Fetus is a stage of human life, it is true. But, different stages of human life carry different rights. And before 25 weeks of gestation, I simply do not see gIvins a fetus the right to dictate what a woman does in regards to her medical decisions.
25 weeks is the cutoff I support, and even that I would like there to be a medically sound reason, otherwise I am happy with 20 weeks.

And not even THEIR unborn babies...

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?

I was one. I was using the pill and condoms. Aaron was a surprise.

Notice I didn't kill him.

I was old enough to choose to have sex, and I was old enough to assume responsibility for my actions.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
I was one. I was using the pill and condoms. Aaron was a surprise.
Notice I didn't kill him.
I was old enough to choose to have sex, and I was old enough to assume responsibility for my actions.

YOUR CHOICE.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.

Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.

It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
I was one. I was using the pill and condoms. Aaron was a surprise.
Notice I didn't kill him.
I was old enough to choose to have sex, and I was old enough to assume responsibility for my actions.

YOUR CHOICE.
flan

Fine. Women can chose to abort. I will still think they are the scum of the Earth. And will be vocal about it...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
I was one. I was using the pill and condoms. Aaron was a surprise.
Notice I didn't kill him.
I was old enough to choose to have sex, and I was old enough to assume responsibility for my actions.

YOUR CHOICE.
flan
Fine. Women can chose to abort. I will still think they are the scum of the Earth. And will be vocal about it...

I know how strongly you feel about the issue. It's all good.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.

That is inhumane.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.
That is inhumane.
flan

Killing for convenience is inhumane...

ed11563 · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.
That is inhumane.
flan

And the rapist can wind up with custody, or visitation. That keeps him in HER life for decades.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.
That is inhumane.
flan
Killing for convenience is inhumane...

chef was referring to a rape victim.

I cannot imagine how it would feel to carry a reminder of that nightmare.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

I know someone that was conceived by rape. Her mother cared for her baby more than herself...both are amazing women...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
I know someone that was conceived by rape. Her mother cared for her baby more than herself...both are amazing women...

Yes, I agree that it does happen.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.
That is inhumane.
flan
And the rapist can wind up with custody, or visitation. That keeps him in HER life for decades.

Only if they find out about the pregnancy.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.
That is inhumane.
flan
And the rapist can wind up with custody, or visitation. That keeps him in HER life for decades.

Only if they find out about the pregnancy.

If it was date rape, they certainly would find out.

flan

ed11563 · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:

And the rapist can wind up with custody, or visitation. That keeps him in HER life for decades.

Only if they find out about the pregnancy.

If it was date rape, they certainly would find out.
flan

Or if he was caught and prosecuted.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Still don't have to tell anyone you are pregnant or that it is his.

And the pregnancies resulting from rape is barely 5%.

So it really is a non issue.

Ohfour · Hooker

I think its actually less than .05%. Its RARE...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I got that from the RAINN site.

Either way, it happens so rarely it's a straw man argument.

ed11563 · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I think its actually less than .05%. Its RARE...

The likelihood of a woman of childbearing age becoming pregnant with ONE instance of unprotected intercourse is ONE IN SIX .

Not all rape victims / survivors are of child bearing age, but many are. For them, it's only a question of timing between intercourse and ovulation.

Now, Plan B is routinely given to rape survivors in the Emergency Department, except in Catholic hospitals.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

The RAINN site says 5%

That's 1 in 20.

And that is on the generous side.

Ohfour · Hooker

lilyofcourse wrote:
The RAINN site says 5%

That's 1 in 20.

And that is on the generous side.

Im sorry, I misspoke. I meant to say that less than .05% of abortions are for rape. 5% of rapes may result in pregnancy, but the overall abortion numbers, this is minimal.

Does that make better sense?

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
The RAINN site says 5%

That's 1 in 20.

And that is on the generous side.

Probably because

(1) many women of childbearing age are already on The Pill or some other method of birth control, and

(2) some rapists use condoms so they won't leave their DNA inside their target.

Could you provide a link? I'd like to know how they arrived at 5%.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Look it up.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And you are saying that pregnancy due to rape is not a common situation.

So like I said, it's a strawman argument.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Look it up.

In an actual debate, if you could not cite your sources, you would be disqualified.

flan

Tangerine · Guru

What the heck. I'm gonna jump in here with my story.
Anencephaly. Look it up.
Who among you thinks they have the right to tell me that I should be forced to carry to term a baby that has no chance of living more than a few very painful days?
Why should I or anyone in that situation be forced to endure another 20 weeks of pregnancy just to watch my baby die in a horrific way?

Can you really say there is never a reason to have an abortion?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tangerine wrote:
What the heck. I'm gonna jump in here with my story.
Anencephaly. Look it up.
Who among you thinks they have the right to tell me that I should be forced to carry to term a baby that has no chance of living more than a few very painful days?
Why should I or anyone in that situation be forced to endure another 20 weeks of pregnancy just to watch my baby die in a horrific way?

Can you really say there is never a reason to have an abortion?

Tang,

I had NO idea.

That's what upsets me about threads like this. People make rigid statements, not knowing who might read them.

flan

chef · Guru

Tangerine wrote:
What the heck. I'm gonna jump in here with my story.
Anencephaly. Look it up.
Who among you thinks they have the right to tell me that I should be forced to carry to term a baby that has no chance of living more than a few very painful days?
Why should I or anyone in that situation be forced to endure another 20 weeks of pregnancy just to watch my baby die in a horrific way?

Can you really say there is never a reason to have an abortion?

I don't have a problem with having an abortion if your child isn't going to live. This is a case of it's not something I would choose but I would not want a woman forced to carry a baby that isn't going to live.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Lindley · Guru

Tang I'm so sorry

chef · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
chef wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You are deflecting.

I want adults to be responsible.

Not Kill a baby cause they couldn't be bothered to use birth control.
Yes.
And, because it will come up, what do you say about women who did use BC but got pregnant anyway?
Either face up to having a baby or put it up for adoption. It's not like you (general you) are shunned if you're an unwed mother these days. That's what the answer should be, not killing your child. You'll never get the pro-choicers to give anyone but themselves a choice. Certainly not the baby or even the fathers.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 29th of October 2015 03:37:03 PM
With very, very few exceptions, I agree.
The big exception I make is for babies conceived through rape. It's still a baby and I don't (and have never) deny that. The reason I make the exception is because I feel it's a slap in the face to the victim to further victimize her by forcing her to carry a baby. I just can't get myself to be ok with telling a rape victim 'too bad, so sad, you're now pregnant and must carry this baby'.
Sorry. I still don't agree with abortion.
It is a baby. And it deserves a chance to live.

I don't agree with abortion either. But, as a woman, I just can't tell a rape victim she must carry that child. If she wants to, awesome! But, this is a no-win situation for me. I feel wrong saying ok to abortion but I feel equally as wrong further victimizing the rape victim by forcing a pregnancy on her. See, if a woman chooses to have sex and gets pregnant, that's on her. But, when the sex isn't her choice, I just can't, in good conscience, tell her she must carry that baby.

Tangerine · Guru

I would like to add that asking people when they are going to have another baby is not nearly as cute as people seem to think it is.
That's all.