Dear Prudie, I have been dating a wonderful guy for several years. He is a great partner, handsome, hard-working, and he cares a great deal about making me happy. My parents love him, too. I recently learned that his small business is paying several employees under the table, at the employees’ request. This has left me feeling confused and upset. I believed that he was a pretty ethical person, and, in his mind, he is doing a favor to his employees. In my mind, he is risking the company that he has worked so hard to build. Help!
—Black Market
Dear Market, Here’s an article about the pitfalls of this practice. Let me sum it up for you: penalties, prosecution, potential ruination. He may be thinking he’s doing his employees a favor, but they are doing him no favor if this ultimately results in the destruction of his business due to its unraveling when he is forced to pour all his money into attorney fees. Now that you’ve found this out, you should urge him to contact a lawyer and figure out how to straighten out this mess without provoking the attention of the authorities. I find it hard to believe a successful and ethical businessman would not understand that going along with this employee request is madness. Yes, he is risking everything. That should give you pause about his judgment.
—Prudie
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I would have to walk away from this relationship. Here's why. There are legal ways to help people and not legal ways. People don't usually change who they are when they clock out of work. If he thinks this is okay at work what would happen if they decide to get married and build a house together? Would he cut corners? I just wouldn't want to risk that.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
Well, I don't think she has to jump to conclusions. She may not really know HOW he is running his business. Did she see his books and accounts and invoices and so forth? Lots of people get paid under the table. Babysitters. Nannies or daycare people who come to your home sometimes. Or maybe you are paying cash for a job that never gets reported. So, it could be that he simply is just not a very good business man and just needs to get some accounting advice.
Well, I don't think she has to jump to conclusions. She may not really know HOW he is running his business. Did she see his books and accounts and invoices and so forth? Lots of people get paid under the table. Babysitters. Nannies or daycare people who come to your home sometimes. Or maybe you are paying cash for a job that never gets reported. So, it could be that he simply is just not a very good business man and just needs to get some accounting advice.
Yeah. This could be much ado about nothing. How many people send the teenage baby-sitter they get for date night a 1099?
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
This is what I was saying on the thread about the homeless people working.
Are they getting paid under the table?
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
I disagree. If he has employees, he will get caught. I have run a 2-3 person S Corp for 15 yrs. As soon as you go into business, you will start getting letters from the State. He will or his employees will probably get caught. However, if he has never run a payroll at all and everything is completely cash, then maybe he won't. But, so what? Why is it OK for the Amish to run cash and nobody else? That's bull.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
__________________
America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
So what? If you are paying anyone in cash and they are not reporting it, you are doing what he is.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
I used to have a small accounting practice. All my clients were small Mom & Pop business. Most ran their businesses legitimately. The ones that didn't always ended up going out of business or going broke because they would spend every last dime on themselves as soon as the money came in. They were not good business people. They couldn't build a base of customers who returned because of their shady practices. You can't grow a business if you aren't trustworthy; trying to skirt taxes says a lot about your character.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
I used to have a small accounting practice. All my clients were small Mom & Pop business. Most ran their businesses legitimately. The ones that didn't always ended up going out of business or going broke because they would spend every last dime on themselves as soon as the money came in. They were not good business people. They couldn't build a base of customers who returned because of their shady practices. You can't grow a business if you aren't trustworthy; trying to skirt taxes says a lot about your character.
But that's different than what we are talking about. If he's not a good businessman and goes out of business--that's a separate subject.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
So what? If you are paying anyone in cash and they are not reporting it, you are doing what he is.
Not true Husker. The occasional teen age babysitter is specifically excluded from the tax laws. They are not considered a household employee. If someone babysits while a parent works on a regular basis, then yes, that person does have to report the income. As for tips not being reported, that is not up to the consumer to do anything about, that is up to the individual and restaurant owner to claim the tips. Your way of thinking would have parents having to report any allowance money they give their kids.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
I used to have a small accounting practice. All my clients were small Mom & Pop business. Most ran their businesses legitimately. The ones that didn't always ended up going out of business or going broke because they would spend every last dime on themselves as soon as the money came in. They were not good business people. They couldn't build a base of customers who returned because of their shady practices. You can't grow a business if you aren't trustworthy; trying to skirt taxes says a lot about your character.
But that's different than what we are talking about. If he's not a good businessman and goes out of business--that's a separate subject.
LOl, Husker I was describing typical business practices of people who pay under the table. They are not trustworthy. The GF should get away from him.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
So what? If you are paying anyone in cash and they are not reporting it, you are doing what he is.
Not true Husker. The occasional teen age babysitter is specifically excluded from the tax laws. They are not considered a household employee. If someone babysits while a parent works on a regular basis, then yes, that person does have to report the income. As for tips not being reported, that is not up to the consumer to do anything about, that is up to the individual and restaurant owner to claim the tips. Your way of thinking would have parents having to report any allowance money they give their kids.
All in income is supposed to be reportrd.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
So what? If you are paying anyone in cash and they are not reporting it, you are doing what he is.
Not true Husker. The occasional teen age babysitter is specifically excluded from the tax laws. They are not considered a household employee. If someone babysits while a parent works on a regular basis, then yes, that person does have to report the income. As for tips not being reported, that is not up to the consumer to do anything about, that is up to the individual and restaurant owner to claim the tips. Your way of thinking would have parents having to report any allowance money they give their kids.
All in income is supposed to be reportrd.
Wrong.....
When determining whether you need to file a return, you don't include tax-exempt income. In 2015 for example, if you are under age 65 and single, you must file a tax return if you earn $10,300 or more, which is the sum of the 2015 standard deduction for a single taxpayer plus one exemption.
__________________
America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
How much income do I have to make before I’m required to file taxes?
It depends on your gross income. For 2014, you must file a return if your gross income was at least:
•Single filing status: •$10,150 if under age 65
•$11,700 if age 65 or older
•Married filing jointly: •$20,300 if both spouses under age 65
•$21,500 if one spouse under age 65 and one age 65 or older
•$22,700 if both spouses age 65 or older
•Married filing separately -- $3,950 for all ages
•Head of household: •$13,050 if under age 65
•$14,600 if age 65 or older
•Qualifying widow(er) with dependent child: •$16,350 if under age 65
•$16,850 if age 65 or older
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
No, but I'm not a business. If he has a legitimate business then there are all kinds of reporting that he has to do. He's going to get caught one day...
So what? If you are paying anyone in cash and they are not reporting it, you are doing what he is.
Not true Husker. The occasional teen age babysitter is specifically excluded from the tax laws. They are not considered a household employee. If someone babysits while a parent works on a regular basis, then yes, that person does have to report the income. As for tips not being reported, that is not up to the consumer to do anything about, that is up to the individual and restaurant owner to claim the tips. Your way of thinking would have parents having to report any allowance money they give their kids.
All in income is supposed to be reportrd.
Wrong.....
When determining whether you need to file a return, you don't include tax-exempt income. In 2015 for example, if you are under age 65 and single, you must file a tax return if you earn $10,300 or more, which is the sum of the 2015 standard deduction for a single taxpayer plus one exemption.
Duh.
thats a good point, thOugh. We don't know that these people meet the income threshold. For all she knows, they don't.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Also, if you are paying them, you don't know they don't meet the threshold. You might be paying the kid who mows your lawn $500, below the threshold, but it becomes reportable if he has 20 people paying him that much. You don't know.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Also, if you are paying them, you don't know they don't meet the threshold. You might be paying the kid who mows your lawn $500, below the threshold, but it becomes reportable if he has 20 people paying him that much. You don't know.
LOL, again, the $600 ceiling is from a single payer. That single payer does not have to consider any other income the kid may be earning. It's THE LAW.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Also, if you are paying them, you don't know they don't meet the threshold. You might be paying the kid who mows your lawn $500, below the threshold, but it becomes reportable if he has 20 people paying him that much. You don't know.
LOL, again, the $600 ceiling is from a single payer. That single payer does not have to consider any other income the kid may be earning. It's THE LAW.
Fine. $600 instead of $500 then. you still aren't sending that 1099 if it's $1,000. Plus, you don't know this guy is paying them more than that, either.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Also, if you are paying them, you don't know they don't meet the threshold. You might be paying the kid who mows your lawn $500, below the threshold, but it becomes reportable if he has 20 people paying him that much. You don't know.
LOL, again, the $600 ceiling is from a single payer. That single payer does not have to consider any other income the kid may be earning. It's THE LAW.
Fine. $600 instead of $500 then. you still aren't sending that 1099 if it's $1,000. Plus, you don't know this guy is paying them more than that, either.
I think someone confessing to their GF that they pay someone under the table means he knows he is breaking the law meaning he is paying them above the threshold for non reporting.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Also, if you are paying them, you don't know they don't meet the threshold. You might be paying the kid who mows your lawn $500, below the threshold, but it becomes reportable if he has 20 people paying him that much. You don't know.
LOL, again, the $600 ceiling is from a single payer. That single payer does not have to consider any other income the kid may be earning. It's THE LAW.
Fine. $600 instead of $500 then. you still aren't sending that 1099 if it's $1,000. Plus, you don't know this guy is paying them more than that, either.
I think someone confessing to their GF that they pay someone under the table means he knows he is breaking the law meaning he is paying them above the threshold for non reporting.
where do you get that he "confessed"?
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
The only reason they would be paid under the table is if they are avoiding taxes or if they are illegal.
A business has a duty (by law) to make W-2s. If they employee falls short of the minimum to pay taxes, then they do not have to report it.
But a business, by law, must report all wages.
And guess what, my husband gets about 20 1099s for less than $1000.00 every year. And so do his buddies...
For what? My wife never got a 1099 when she had her band. They usually just took cash out of the till.
Ahh so you are saying your wife is a tax cheat, and you too if you file joint returns. You should change your moniker to "I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining my ignorance"
-- Edited by I know what to do_sometimes on Friday 30th of October 2015 05:39:07 PM
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
The only reason they would be paid under the table is if they are avoiding taxes or if they are illegal.
A business has a duty (by law) to make W-2s. If they employee falls short of the minimum to pay taxes, then they do not have to report it.
But a business, by law, must report all wages.
And guess what, my husband gets about 20 1099s for less than $1000.00 every year. And so do his buddies...
For what? My wife never got a 1099 when she had her band. They usually just took cash out of the till.
Ahh so you are saying your wife is a tax cheat, and you too if you file joint returns. You should change your moniker to "I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining my ignorance"
-- Edited by I know what to do_sometimes on Friday 30th of October 2015 05:39:07 PM
I'm not going to pay more than I absolutely have to. That isn't ignorant--that is smart.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Does this guy realize that very people he is paying under the table could turn him in an he would be on the hook to pay all the back taxes, plus all the legalities he would face??? Their request to be paid under the table can be a set up for extortion.
Again, to you send a 1099 to your occasional baby-sitter? What if you throw $20 to a neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Does he get one?
Do you seriously even think that all cash tips get reported?
This is a non-issue. If he gets caught, he gets caught. More than likely, he won't.
You do not have to send anyone a 1099 unless you pay them over $600.
Many places have special laws in place for casual day labor.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
File Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income, for each person to whom you have paid during the year:
At least $10 in royalties (see the instructions for box 2) or broker payments in lieu of dividends or tax-exempt interest (see the instructions for box 8);
At least $600 in:
rents (box 1);
services performed by someone who is not your employee (including parts and materials), box 7;
prizes and awards (see instructions for boxes 3 and 7;
other income payments (box 3);
medical and health care payments (box 6);
crop insurance proceeds (box 10);
cash payments for fish (or other aquatic life) you purchase from anyone engaged in the trade or business of catching fish (box 7);
generally, the cash paid from a notional principal contract to an individual, partnership, or estate (box 7);
Payments to an attorney. See Payments to attorneys, later; or
Any fishing boat proceeds (box 5).
In addition, use Form 1099-MISC to report that you made direct sales of at least $5,000 of consumer products to a buyer for resale anywhere other than a permanent retail establishment (box 9).
You must also file Form 1099-MISC for each person from whom you have withheld any federal income tax (report in box 4) under the backup withholding rules regardless of the amount of the payment.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
File Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income, for each person to whom you have paid during the year:
At least $10 in royalties (see the instructions for box 2) or broker payments in lieu of dividends or tax-exempt interest (see the instructions for box 8);
At least $600 in:
rents (box 1);
services performed by someone who is not your employee (including parts and materials), box 7;
prizes and awards (see instructions for boxes 3 and 7;
other income payments (box 3);
medical and health care payments (box 6);
crop insurance proceeds (box 10);
cash payments for fish (or other aquatic life) you purchase from anyone engaged in the trade or business of catching fish (box 7);
generally, the cash paid from a notional principal contract to an individual, partnership, or estate (box 7);
Payments to an attorney. See Payments to attorneys, later; or
Any fishing boat proceeds (box 5).
In addition, use Form 1099-MISC to report that you made direct sales of at least $5,000 of consumer products to a buyer for resale anywhere other than a permanent retail establishment (box 9).
You must also file Form 1099-MISC for each person from whom you have withheld any federal income tax (report in box 4) under the backup withholding rules regardless of the amount of the payment.
Do I have to send a 1099 to Walmart or Costco because I buy a lot of stuff there? What if I buy fish from them?
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The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.