TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: The Unparented Child

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I agree with everything you said MM except that people are incapable of changing. I'm not saying that changing is easy or is a short term process. But it can, and should, happen. If you are in a relationship with someone you need to make them get help. And yes, you can give them the alternative that either you get help or I walk. No one should live with someone who is still so crippled by their past that they can't function. There's a name for those people too. Enablers.
I believe people are capable of changing. I don't believe it is realistic for us to expect person to be able to pick themselves up and change on their own.
And enablers are just as ill as those they enable. It's just a different kind of illness.

I agree one hundred percent that they need help changing. I said so up thread. And yes, enablers are sick too. but at some point someone needs to stop the insanity and ask for help. I don't listen to people who bitch and gripe and moan about their life and all the wrongs done to them. The first time I acknowledge it. The second time I suggest getting help. The third time I tell them if they aren't going to get help then don't tell me their problems. May sound harsh but listening over and over and over doesn't help.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Oh dear.

So 20 years later, it's still someone else's fault they can't get their stuff together?

I don't buy that.
Well it really doesn't matter if you "buy it" or not. Their brains are physically different, MRI's show the difference - you can see it. Their brains and their thinking is profoundly changed whether you agree with it or not. I am not saying they are incapable of helping themselves. I am saying it is almost impossible for them to realize they need to help themselves because of the way their brains work - due to the abuse. But all the intro to psych textbooks could be totally wrong. Because Lily doesn't agree.

Yeah. Ok. Their brain have been changed.

The fact that they SURVIVED should prove they can overcome it.

I'm not saying at the snap of the fingers. But a person knows when something isn't right.

And not every "victim" was abused. A lot are just not "satisfied" with their home life. Or they have some pie in the sky idea of what life should be.

They bought into the fairy tails.

And then there are those who just can not function if they are not the victim.

Not every "victim" is actually a victim.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I think part of the problem is that everyone is constantly butt hurt about something these days. And it becomes almost like they were abused. I hear people say things like "I was abused because I had to hug Aunt Matilda every year at Christmas and I didn't want to." Or "I was abused because Aunt Sally liked to pinch my cheeks when I was a little girl." It's become astonishing what the experts are now calling "abuse". I hate to break it to people but not all this stuff is "abuse". Grow the fvck up. There are people that deal with honestly crappy parents who DID beat the living daylights out of them. So first let's start out by figuring out if the whining is even necessary.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I think part of the problem is that everyone is constantly butt hurt about something these days. And it becomes almost like they were abused. I hear people say things like "I was abused because I had to hug Aunt Matilda every year at Christmas and I didn't want to." Or "I was abused because Aunt Sally liked to pinch my cheeks when I was a little girl." It's become astonishing what the experts are now calling "abuse". I hate to break it to people but not all this stuff is "abuse". Grow the fvck up. There are people that deal with honestly crappy parents who DID beat the living daylights out of them. So first let's start out by figuring out if the whining is even necessary.

Yes. There are alot of self absorbed, entitled people who think that if their parents weren't perfect people and didn't run in to put a bandaid on their knee at every occasion that somehow they were neglected.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Oh dear.

So 20 years later, it's still someone else's fault they can't get their stuff together?

I don't buy that.
Well it really doesn't matter if you "buy it" or not. Their brains are physically different, MRI's show the difference - you can see it. Their brains and their thinking is profoundly changed whether you agree with it or not. I am not saying they are incapable of helping themselves. I am saying it is almost impossible for them to realize they need to help themselves because of the way their brains work - due to the abuse. But all the intro to psych textbooks could be totally wrong. Because Lily doesn't agree.

Let's not forget all the psychiatrists who wasted their time & money at medical school.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Victim victim victim. Grow the hell up already.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

The compassion is overwhelming...

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

I was abused. Really abused. Physically, verbally, emotionally, spiritually by my ex husband. I grew a backbone. I CHANGED. Yes, people CAN change...can you imagine me putting up with that crap now?????

ed11563 · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I was abused. Really abused. Physically, verbally, emotionally, spiritually by my ex husband. I grew a backbone. I CHANGED. Yes, people CAN change...can you imagine me putting up with that crap now?????

Did your mother and father do those things to you from birth?

I'm glad you recovered.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
The compassion is overwhelming...

flan

The compassion is crushing for these people. Stop allowing them to be the victim and guess what, they may just learn to handle life like an adult.

Riding · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Here's my take. If you are 18 and your life is a mess, you can blame your parents. If you are 40 and your life is a mess that is on You.

Umm not necessarily, I have an 18yoa who made choices, that were not in her best interest, since she was 16. WE did everything we could do and more. It came down to her realizing that things were not happening TO her, they were because of her CHOICES.

it was a long dark bumpy road sometimes, and there are still a few tripping hazards out there LOL.

BUT she was 18 in June and owns her choices and yes their consequences.

I know all situations are different, this is just mine. and she is becoming the strong responsible adult I prayed she would, but she had to see and find her worth, it was nothing we could make her or give to her, no matter how hard we tried, I have always loved her but there were times I really did not like the person she was, and I am sure she felt the same. But time, tears, pain and acceptance on my part and hers of what we could *control* and should...has helped us.

We are still a work in progress, and I know it will be fine...not perhaps anyone else's vision of perfect. but perfect for she and I.

Blankie · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I was abused. Really abused. Physically, verbally, emotionally, spiritually by my ex husband. I grew a backbone. I CHANGED. Yes, people CAN change...can you imagine me putting up with that crap now?????

I applaud your courage and pluck to get out of that situation, Ohfour.

Lindley · Guru

Riding wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Here's my take. If you are 18 and your life is a mess, you can blame your parents. If you are 40 and your life is a mess that is on You.
Umm not necessarily, I have an 18yoa who made choices, that were not in her best interest, since she was 16. WE did everything we could do and more. It came down to her realizing that things were not happening TO her, they were because of her CHOICES.
it was a long dark bumpy road sometimes, and there are still a few tripping hazards out there LOL.
BUT she was 18 in June and owns her choices and yes their consequences.
I know all situations are different, this is just mine. and she is becoming the strong responsible adult I prayed she would, but she had to see and find her worth, it was nothing we could make her or give to her, no matter how hard we tried, I have always loved her but there were times I really did not like the person she was, and I am sure she felt the same. But time, tears, pain and acceptance on my part and hers of what we could *control* and should...has helped us.
We are still a work in progress, and I know it will be fine...not perhaps anyone else's vision of perfect. but perfect for she and I.

Riding your daughter learned at a very young age to correct your behavior. You did your job as a parent by stepping back and not rushing in to save her from her poor choices. Sounds like she would be fine.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Riding you are misinterpreting me. What i meant was if u had a crappy childhood that yes maybe you can hold your parents responsible at 18. But you cant still be blaming your parents at 40.

Riding · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Riding you are misinterpreting me. What i meant was if u had a crappy childhood that yes maybe you can hold your parents responsible at 18. But you cant still be blaming your parents at 40.

OH I apologize, I understand your thoughts totally and 100000% agree FFS those who are my age and still carrying on about some slight they felt as a child,

Life is a circle and I know there are some who are caught in it and the struggle to get out and make a change, and yet it IMHO comes down to the person to DO it to make the change, to break the cycle. and I have seen many inspiring posts on this thread, showing how the past did not completely overwhelm the awesome people here. I do respect it was not easy, and I am so happy for those who have been able to, and support those still in the struggle. BUT I have seen many who just sit and bemoan their *fate* rather than trying to do something that within their power and abilities, just blaming their parent for the issues they have in their lives now.

chef · Guru

Empyreal wrote:

But there are people who have been severely damaged at the hands of their parents through neglect or physical/emotional abuse. It's not easy for these people to just move past it. It is at the very center of who they are as a person. They can't just get over it. It's the core of who they are.

This is so, so true. Personal experience.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

chef wrote:
Empyreal wrote:

But there are people who have been severely damaged at the hands of their parents through neglect or physical/emotional abuse. It's not easy for these people to just move past it. It is at the very center of who they are as a person. They can't just get over it. It's the core of who they are.

This is so, so true. Personal experience.

And I hate when people who are looking in from the outside dismiss the experience.

"Oh, just get over it."

flan

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
Empyreal wrote:

But there are people who have been severely damaged at the hands of their parents through neglect or physical/emotional abuse. It's not easy for these people to just move past it. It is at the very center of who they are as a person. They can't just get over it. It's the core of who they are.

This is so, so true. Personal experience.
And I hate when people who are looking in from the outside dismiss the experience.
"Oh, just get over it."
flan

I don't think telling someone to just get over it is being dismissive. Getting over it is tough but necessary. One of my favorite expressions is build a bridge and get over it. How long it takes to build that bridge depends on how badly the person wants to get over it.

Think about it. Wallowing in self-pity, self-loathing, etc. helps no one. It's not healthy. It's not productive.

Tinydancer · Guru

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
Empyreal wrote:

But there are people who have been severely damaged at the hands of their parents through neglect or physical/emotional abuse. It's not easy for these people to just move past it. It is at the very center of who they are as a person. They can't just get over it. It's the core of who they are.

This is so, so true. Personal experience.
And I hate when people who are looking in from the outside dismiss the experience.
"Oh, just get over it."
flan
I don't think telling someone to just get over it is being dismissive. Getting over it is tough but necessary. One of my favorite expressions is build a bridge and get over it. How long it takes to build that bridge depends on how badly the person wants to get over it.
Think about it. Wallowing in self-pity, self-loathing, etc. helps no one. It's not healthy. It's not productive.

Ohfour · Hooker

Anyone can "get over" anything. It may take a little while, and you may need to be hit in the head with a brick, but trust me. ANYTHING is possible. And if you don't think so, then you are your own worst enemy.

chef · Guru

And, btw, getting over it is something I had to learn. I chose to box my past up and burn it. Sometimes, the past rears its ugly head and I do have triggers but I force myself to get over it. It's hard. Very hard. And, it hurts. But, I refuse to let the past win. I can be incredibly stubborn when it suits me and this is one time it does.

I wish DH could get to that point but he isn't there yet. When he wants to be free of his past badly enough, he will be. Until then, there is nothing I or any professional could say to get him to build a bridge and get over it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I have talked about my abuse as a child. When I was younger we got beaten for everything. If one of use kids, there were nine in all, did something and my mom didn't know who, she would line us all up and spank everyone. By spanking I don't mean a little whooping. Or with her hand. We had a long kitchen cabinet and we were called in and told to put our hands on the counter. She would go down the line with a wooden spoon or a spatula or some other utensil. If your hands came off the counter your hands got hit with the spoon. She would continue to hit us until someone anyone really "confessed". Some day we would make something up. Other days we would stand there in solidarity. Most days she hit us till the spoon or spatula broke in half. Which was bad because then she came after you with her hands.

In our house if you didn't sit through get your hair brushed/curled in pink foam rollers/permed she would hit you on the head with the brush until the brush broke. Nothing in our house ever had handles because she used everything to beat us. She would pinch us till we bruised in places no one would see. I have been picked up and thrown. Into walls, ladders, and against things. I have been kicked. The best course of action was to hide. If you could hide you got lucky.

The worst part of it was the verbal slaying that went with it. You're fat, you're ugly, you're going to turn out to be nothing, no one will ever love you or marry you, you're dumb. If you tell a child they are those things long enough they most definitely turn into those things.

I don't want sympathy from anyone here. I don't want sorrow. What I do want people to understand is that in my mind this behavior was NORMAL. I thought all families acted like this. And I couldn't see how growing up like this colored so many areas of my life. My parents said no one would ever want me. It was a lesson I learned very early. So when some douche bag guy came along and wanted to marry me I was ecstatic! I mean it wasn't even supposed to happen!

I didn't "change" on my own. I didn't "grow up" on my own. Facing a failing marriage and unsteady of the future for my kids I turned to a support group. The lady was my mentor and my friend. She pushed me to get therapy. Without her my life would have been so different. And believe it or not when I got to therapy I had to have four sessions before I was even convinced that not all mothers treated their kids like that. Yes, I am different now. I'm sure there will be a few here that say I am crying victim. I am not. I got therapy. I am a new person. I don't carry that baggage anymore. But it was a long road and one started by someone who cared enough about me to tell me to get help. I silently thank her every day.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Thank you so much for sharing, NJN.

You are amazing.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

For me, I always thought, "Why would my mother tell me these things if they weren't TRUE?"

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

flan327 wrote:
Thank you so much for sharing, NJN.

You are amazing.

flan

Thank you flan. And just for the record, I don't consider myself a victim. I survived childhood abuse. Period end of story. I survived the beatings and the times I would bleed. It made me a fighter. People CAN change. I did. I know a lady whose father sexually abused her from the time she was about two years old till she was sixteen and ran away from home. It took her awhile but she got help and moved past it. She made her peace and even has a relationship with her dad now. Oftentimes though spouses or other family members have a vested interest in keeping the person unhealthy though. People like to say this is an easy issue. It's not. It can be fixed though.

TrudyML · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I was abused. Really abused. Physically, verbally, emotionally, spiritually by my ex husband. I grew a backbone. I CHANGED. Yes, people CAN change...can you imagine me putting up with that crap now?????

Nope!

Riding · Guru

Lindley wrote:
We are still a work in progress, and I know it will be fine...not perhaps anyone else's vision of perfect. but perfect for she and I.
Riding your daughter learned at a very young age to correct your behavior. You did your job as a parent by stepping back and not rushing in to save her from her poor choices. Sounds like she would be fine.

thanks, it was not easy, I just wanted to save her, and it took all I had to let her learn to save herself.

I told my mom when she was in a similar yet different situation, that all a mom can do is teach and share the right *tools* with their child and then pray they use them.

but I admit is was SO much easier to tell me mom that....then to do it.

Riding · Guru

NJN, thank you for sharing this and I agree YOU are a fighter and you have worked hard for the life you have an you deserve it.

Lindley · Guru

Riding wrote:
Lindley wrote:
We are still a work in progress, and I know it will be fine...not perhaps anyone else's vision of perfect. but perfect for she and I.
Riding your daughter learned at a very young age to correct your behavior. You did your job as a parent by stepping back and not rushing in to save her from her poor choices. Sounds like she would be fine.
thanks, it was not easy, I just wanted to save her, and it took all I had to let her learn to save herself.
I told my mom when she was in a similar yet different situation, that all a mom can do is teach and share the right *tools* with their child and then pray they use them.
but I admit is was SO much easier to tell me mom that....then to do it.

opps I meant her not your. I agree it is easier to tell someone then do it. NJN, you are a strong woman, a good wife and a great mom. You listened to your mentor and therapist and fought to get out of that mind set.

chef · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

The worst part of it was the verbal slaying that went with it. You're fat, you're ugly, you're going to turn out to be nothing, no one will ever love you or marry you, you're dumb. If you tell a child they are those things long enough they most definitely turn into those things.

I didn't "change" on my own. I didn't "grow up" on my own. Facing a failing marriage and unsteady of the future for my kids I turned to a support group. The lady was my mentor and my friend. She pushed me to get therapy. Without her my life would have been so different. And believe it or not when I got to therapy I had to have four sessions before I was even convinced that not all mothers treated their kids like that. Yes, I am different now. I'm sure there will be a few here that say I am crying victim. I am not. I got therapy. I am a new person. I don't carry that baggage anymore. But it was a long road and one started by someone who cared enough about me to tell me to get help. I silently thank her every day.

The bolded is what FIL did to DH.

I wish he would find someone like you did to tell him he is a worthy person. He sure doesn't listen when I tell him.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .

I agree. But sometimes people don't even realize they're acting this way. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give them a proverbial kick in the butt to make them realize they need to get help in order to change.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And usually when people start saying things like "you just can't" or "you havent" they are more than happy with the status quo.

Tinydancer · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .

That is some very good advice.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .
I agree. But sometimes people don't even realize they're acting this way. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give them a proverbial kick in the butt to make them realize they need to get help in order to change.

And that's what I try to do.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .
I agree. But sometimes people don't even realize they're acting this way. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give them a proverbial kick in the butt to make them realize they need to get help in order to change.
And that's what I try to do.

No husker. You don't. You shame people constantly. You put down therapy. Call it whiny and a waste of money. You constantly say depression is a made up disease. Therapy is NOT a joke. Telling someone to just get the fvck over it is not helpful.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .
I agree. But sometimes people don't even realize they're acting this way. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give them a proverbial kick in the butt to make them realize they need to get help in order to change.
And that's what I try to do.
No husker. You don't. You shame people constantly. You put down therapy. Call it whiny and a waste of money. You constantly say depression is a made up disease. Therapy is NOT a joke. Telling someone to just get the fvck over it is not helpful.

That's the kick in the butt.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

No. That's not a kick in the butt. It's rude and hateful and NOT helpful.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Some people want to hold on very hard to why they are justified to feel angry, sad, miserable, etc. And, nobody is saying those feelings are not justified. But, the question becomes, how much of your future do you want to burn feeling that way? IF you want to, you can remain in that state all your life. It's your life. It's your choice. If you want feel live in that every day of every second of your life, its' up to you. You may. It's your life. Do whatever you want. But, some here are saying that you don't have too .
I agree. But sometimes people don't even realize they're acting this way. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give them a proverbial kick in the butt to make them realize they need to get help in order to change.

There are times when you can't pull yourself up yourself. If you could you would. I think of it like this, there is a time when you are wounded where you can't do it yourself. If you break your leg, nobody expects you to walk to the hospital. An ambulance comes, there are doctors and nurses who care for you. And, you may need a Season of your life for that kind of self nurturing. Maybe you need a time to be alone with yourself and thoughts. Time to retreat from society for a bit and heal. And, there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. Nobody would be yelling at that person with that broken leg on the day or next of the accident to get up and walk. Well, maybe there are some that would but that is impossible and no amount of Will Power is going to overcome that broken leg. However, there is the time of nurturing and the nurse caring for you. But, then one day, all of the sudden, the nurse will walk in and say "Ok, Mr. Jones, today you are going to get out of bed and walk". And, you can't believe it because it still hurts like heck and you will protest that you aren't ready. But, what is compassion really? Is it compassion to tell someone to walk on the same day they broke their leg? No. Compassion dictates that the person needs help. On the other hand, after that time, would it be compassion for the nurse to say 'Oh, that's OK Mr Jones, go ahead and get back and lay in bed" and then leave you to lie in bed? And, then you never heal and you develop bed sores and blood clots and your leg never heals. That is certainly not compassion. It is compassion to then take that next step and push someone to face the pain and to move ahead one step at a time.

So, I see a 2 pronged attack here. A period of nurturing. Then a period of suffering through the pain and doing the hard work of moving ahead.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I do agree with you completely LGS. Some people don't have an idea of how or where to start healing themselves. Honestly, if you grow up in the kind of house flan and I grew up in you don't really know that there is something different out there. They tell alcoholics that the first step is admitting you have a problem. It's the same much of the time for people in these situations. They have to first understand there is something wrong with how they think and feel. But once they do it's time to get help. And as I've said before if you are in therapy for 35 years and you're just as screwed up as the day you go in then you have a bad therapist. I don't think coddling people is good. I do think helping them find the answers is. And then again we have to learn that a hang nail is NOT abuse.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I also think that there is an Explanation and an Excuse. I have anxiety issues because....is an Explanation. Ok. You had xyz that has led to you having anxiety issues or whatever it is. And, that person needs to face these issues and work to deal with that issue. And, you might never resolve it completely but you learn to move ahead and function Anyway. Don't let your explanation be your Excuse.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I also think that there is an Explanation and an Excuse. I have anxiety issues because....is an Explanation. Ok. You had xyz that has led to you having anxiety issues or whatever it is. And, that person needs to face these issues and work to deal with that issue. And, you might never resolve it completely but you learn to move ahead and function Anyway. Don't let your explanation be your Excuse.

I agree with this, LGS.

If you are not moving forward, your standing still and stuck. That also is a choice. Especially when you are 40.

And sometimes people do need a kick in the butt. Know your audience. A friend CAN give that proverbial verbal kick in the butt.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I absolutely agree a friend can give you a kick in the butt. But a kick in the butt is not grow the fvck up and get over. You don't need counseling, you need to shut up and stop whining. There's nothing wrong with counseling as long as it's doing what it's supposed to do. A true friend would say, I see you really struggle with these issues. You need to see someone who can help you sort them out.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I absolutely agree a friend can give you a kick in the butt. But a kick in the butt is not grow the fvck up and get over. You don't need counseling, you need to shut up and stop whining. There's nothing wrong with counseling as long as it's doing what it's supposed to do. A true friend would say, I see you really struggle with these issues. You need to see someone who can help you sort them out.

NJN, this may be a cultural difference. In my neck of the woods and friend would tell me to grow the fvck up and get over it.

We are a very self reliant bunch out here.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

just Czech wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I absolutely agree a friend can give you a kick in the butt. But a kick in the butt is not grow the fvck up and get over. You don't need counseling, you need to shut up and stop whining. There's nothing wrong with counseling as long as it's doing what it's supposed to do. A true friend would say, I see you really struggle with these issues. You need to see someone who can help you sort them out.
NJN, this may be a cultural difference. In my neck of the woods and friend would tell me to grow the fvck up and get over it.
We are a very self reliant bunch out here.

Here, if you told someone that you wouldn't have a friend anymore.

It's a difficult concept to understand if you haven't lived through it. Being told to grow the fvck up and get over it does nothing to help the person. We don't know HOW to do that. We don't even realize there IS a problem.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
just Czech wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I absolutely agree a friend can give you a kick in the butt. But a kick in the butt is not grow the fvck up and get over. You don't need counseling, you need to shut up and stop whining. There's nothing wrong with counseling as long as it's doing what it's supposed to do. A true friend would say, I see you really struggle with these issues. You need to see someone who can help you sort them out.
NJN, this may be a cultural difference. In my neck of the woods and friend would tell me to grow the fvck up and get over it.
We are a very self reliant bunch out here.
Here, if you told someone that you wouldn't have a friend anymore.
It's a difficult concept to understand if you haven't lived through it. Being told to grow the fvck up and get over it does nothing to help the person. We don't know HOW to do that. We don't even realize there IS a problem.

In that case, the person chose not to listen to the friend. That is also a choice.

An individual should not go on blaming someone else for their problems when the problems have been pointed out to them. That's like sticking your (general) head in the sand.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Well, shaming someone into making a better decision rarely works. Almost never. To call them names, tell them they're stupid, or say grow the fvck up really doesn't work anywhere but in your neck of the woods in Nebraska. In most places people are way more willing to accept help and change when it is offered in a non judgmental attitude. Telling someone they have options and can choose to be happy is WAY DIFFERENT than telling them to grow the fvck up.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And I'm not quite sure how telling someone to grow the fvck up helps them identify their problems. What exactly is the problem? That could be anything from you're being a general pain in the arse to I hate your guts. I will say it again, these people don't KNOW they have a problem. Telling them what the problem is is the first part of the battle. You may say that's coddling but until a person can realize there's a problem they're not able to fix it.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
And I'm not quite sure how telling someone to grow the fvck up helps them identify their problems. What exactly is the problem? That could be anything from you're being a general pain in the arse to I hate your guts. I will say it again, these people don't KNOW they have a problem. Telling them what the problem is is the first part of the battle. You may say that's coddling but until a person can realize there's a problem they're not able to fix it.

We usually discuss the problem before telling them to grow the f up. If discussion doesn't work, tough love can and does work for most around here.