TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: Teacher banned from holding students' hands in a prayer circle before school basketball games

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yes weltz, you found 2 articles. Good for you.

Don't see any court action that removed either.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes weltz, you found 2 articles. Good for you.

Don't see any court action that removed either.

Welts will search to the ends of the internet to find some fodder that supposedly "proves' her point. lol

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Personally, i find the whole praying around sports thing to be odd. I mean, yes, "pray without ceasing". But, why do we do all that at sports events and not the High School Musical or whatever? We don't sing the National Anthem before a play or art show or any of that.

Here, we do.

You may not see it like you do on an open field.

But the drama kids will gather backstage, the art kids gather in a room.

Each club will usually take a moment of silence at least.

The see you at the pole is a movement started in 1990 by students in Texas. One church group started this 25 years ago.

Our school still has FCA and it is very active in the school.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes weltz, you found 2 articles. Good for you.

Don't see any court action that removed either.
Welts will search to the ends of the internet to find some fodder that supposedly "proves' her point. lol

Yes. Weltz is very good at google.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh, she quotes Salon as if that is some "unbiased source"! LMAO! Then will complain about Breitbart! Too rich!!!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And, the "Death and taxes" mag looks like your usual liberal claptrap!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes. Students can lead prayer with other students.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.

Thank you. Pretty sure I said that 2 pages ago, but no one wanted to listen.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I dont see how joining is promoting.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.

Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.

Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.

And that is fine until it isn't. You haven't had anyone challenge it.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.
And that is fine until it isn't. You haven't had anyone challenge it.

I know. But we will keep doing it until someone does...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.
Thank you. Pretty sure I said that 2 pages ago, but no one wanted to listen.

And ANOTHER thank you!

Personally, I do NOT like being called a christphobic bigot, or whatever Lily's insult o' the day is...

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes weltz, you found 2 articles. Good for you.

Don't see any court action that removed either.
Welts will search to the ends of the internet to find some fodder that supposedly "proves' her point. lol
Yes. Weltz is very good at google.

A skill that others need to learn...

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
You don't seem to understand freedom of religion.

It means, in America, you have a government protected right to practice your religion. Regardless of what religion that is.

The problems that have been seen are not those trying to stop a Budist from practicing their religion. No one is stopping the Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, Satanic or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The only one being told not to pray in public, speak in public, being ridiculed or in every other way hindered is the Christian Faith.

Why do you think that is?

Oh, you don't like Salon? Don't tell me Christians are fine with Satanists trying to practice their religion. That's a load of BS.

If you don't like the following link, I can find 3 dozen more.

-------------

Detroit became a flashpoint over the role of religion in a secular government this weekend, as Satanists unveiled a monument to Baphomet, the Independent reports. Christians protested the display, depicting a human body with a goat's head, wings, accompanied by statues of an adoring girl and boy.

Some reportedly went so far as to threaten to blow up the warehouse hosting Saturday's ceremony.

http://www.advocate.com/religion/2015/07/27/satanic-statue-unveiled-detroit-christians-protest

Ohfour · Hooker

I'm so glad this is so far removed from my life...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

People really need to learn the difference between government entities telling you that you can't do something vs. public opinion. The public has the right to disagree with anything, protest it, etc. The government does not have the right to tell people what religion they can practice and how unless it is a very compelling reason - like not sacrificing virgins.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.

So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.

While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.

weltschmerz · Guru

It was rather serendipitous. Last night, Lisa Ling's show "This is Life" was about Detroit's unveiling of the Baphomet statue. She was interviewing the Christian protesters.
Some said "I'm 100% behind freedom of religion....as long as it's Christianity."

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
It was rather serendipitous. Last night, Lisa Ling's show "This is Life" was about Detroit's unveiling of the Baphomet statue. She was interviewing the Christian protesters.
Some said "I'm 100% behind freedom of religion....as long as it's Christianity."

Then they are hypocrites and I would say so to their face...

Ohfour · Hooker

oh oh oh! I realized that I do actually know a Hindu! The guy that owns my liquor store is a Hindu!

So there... biggrin biggrin biggrin wink wink wink

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.

They aren't promoting it. It was student led.

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.

Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?

You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.

And this would be why the school needs to prohibit it. Because you will always have the conspiracy theorists who will never believe that kids (even teens, gasp!) would have faith enough to want to lead a prayer.

huskerbb · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.

Yes. Kids can pray, too.

Ohfour · Hooker

The article I posted...the one where both football teams took a knee at the 33 yard line to pray for a kid that was seriously injured the week before?

That was COMPLETELY student led. The coaches knew nothing about it. The kids said they didn't tell anyone because they didn't want anyone to try to stop them...

It was the opposing teams idea and the captain of one team got in touch with the other captain and set up the play that would result in a downed knee at a particular spot...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I dont see how joining is promoting.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.

I'm curious as to why you think this Ed.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.

So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...

They give up the right to promote religion to students.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...

If they teach in a public school and they are IN the school then yes.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
They give up the right to promote religion to students.

Praying is not promoting.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
If they teach in a public school and they are IN the school then yes.

And if they are not in school? On the school grounds? Before or after school?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
If they teach in a public school and they are IN the school then yes.
And if they are not in school? On the school grounds? Before or after school?

If they are attending a school event - they are still an employee of that school.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
They give up the right to promote religion to students.
Praying is not promoting.

It is when it is a big display.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

If they are on school grounds and engaged in school activities then no. The only time I've seen a teacher be able to do that is when they sponsor a club or something. I'm sure things have changed since then but when I was in high school we had a Bible club. It was approved by the principal and we met every morning in an assigned classroom. We had to have a teacher "sponsor" it. IOW's we had to have someone to report to. BUT, and here's the deal, ANY religion could have done the same thing.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
They give up the right to promote religion to students.

The teacher wasn't promoting it.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
If they teach in a public school and they are IN the school then yes.
And if they are not in school? On the school grounds? Before or after school?
If they are attending a school event - they are still an employee of that school.

I am so glad that doesn't happen here... our weekly Meet Me at the Pole has teachers principals and everyone...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.

You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
They give up the right to promote religion to students.
Praying is not promoting.

Riiiight...cuz praying is NOT Christian...

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Well, courts have ruled otherwise...
Cases[edit]

In 2006, school officials at South Floyd High School in Floyd County, Kentucky tried to deny students permission for the flag pole rally, but attorneys from the Rutherford Institute successfully argued that the rally was protected by free speech rights. "It's important that students, teachers and others know about their right to participate in See You at the Pole events—a right affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court," said John W. Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, in a released statement. "The rallies are part of a long tradition of free and equal participation in expressive activities guaranteed by our Constitution."[2]

Ohfour · Hooker

And more:

Background[edit]

In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]

The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiated and led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.

Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan

I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.

Cause evidently you like to be wrong...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
And more:

Background[edit]

In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]

The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiated and led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.

Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led

See the red.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.
Cause evidently you like to be wrong...

She's not wrong.