Personally, i find the whole praying around sports thing to be odd. I mean, yes, "pray without ceasing". But, why do we do all that at sports events and not the High School Musical or whatever? We don't sing the National Anthem before a play or art show or any of that.
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Personally, i find the whole praying around sports thing to be odd. I mean, yes, "pray without ceasing". But, why do we do all that at sports events and not the High School Musical or whatever? We don't sing the National Anthem before a play or art show or any of that.
Here, we do.
You may not see it like you do on an open field.
But the drama kids will gather backstage, the art kids gather in a room.
Each club will usually take a moment of silence at least.
The see you at the pole is a movement started in 1990 by students in Texas. One church group started this 25 years ago.
Our school still has FCA and it is very active in the school.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Welts will search to the ends of the internet to find some fodder that supposedly "proves' her point. lol
Yes. Weltz is very good at google.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.
Thank you. Pretty sure I said that 2 pages ago, but no one wanted to listen.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.
And that is fine until it isn't. You haven't had anyone challenge it.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
Well, they join in here. And lead prayer.
And that is fine until it isn't. You haven't had anyone challenge it.
I know. But we will keep doing it until someone does...
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Good grief, people. The law is very simple - the school cannot endorse or interfere with religion. Students can pray, the school cannot promote prayer. The school can tell the teachers not to promote prayer because they are employees. The school cannot interfere with student led prayer. The cases on this on clear and numerous.
Thank you. Pretty sure I said that 2 pages ago, but no one wanted to listen.
And ANOTHER thank you!
Personally, I do NOT like being called a christphobic bigot, or whatever Lily's insult o' the day is...
It means, in America, you have a government protected right to practice your religion. Regardless of what religion that is.
The problems that have been seen are not those trying to stop a Budist from practicing their religion. No one is stopping the Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, Satanic or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The only one being told not to pray in public, speak in public, being ridiculed or in every other way hindered is the Christian Faith.
Why do you think that is?
Oh, you don't like Salon? Don't tell me Christians are fine with Satanists trying to practice their religion. That's a load of BS.
If you don't like the following link, I can find 3 dozen more.
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Detroit became a flashpoint over the role of religion in a secular government this weekend, as Satanists unveiled a monument to Baphomet, the Independent reports. Christians protested the display, depicting a human body with a goat's head, wings, accompanied by statues of an adoring girl and boy.
People really need to learn the difference between government entities telling you that you can't do something vs. public opinion. The public has the right to disagree with anything, protest it, etc. The government does not have the right to tell people what religion they can practice and how unless it is a very compelling reason - like not sacrificing virgins.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It was rather serendipitous. Last night, Lisa Ling's show "This is Life" was about Detroit's unveiling of the Baphomet statue. She was interviewing the Christian protesters.
Some said "I'm 100% behind freedom of religion....as long as it's Christianity."
It was rather serendipitous. Last night, Lisa Ling's show "This is Life" was about Detroit's unveiling of the Baphomet statue. She was interviewing the Christian protesters. Some said "I'm 100% behind freedom of religion....as long as it's Christianity."
Then they are hypocrites and I would say so to their face...
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.
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The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.
And this would be why the school needs to prohibit it. Because you will always have the conspiracy theorists who will never believe that kids (even teens, gasp!) would have faith enough to want to lead a prayer.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.
Yes. Kids can pray, too.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
The article I posted...the one where both football teams took a knee at the 33 yard line to pray for a kid that was seriously injured the week before?
That was COMPLETELY student led. The coaches knew nothing about it. The kids said they didn't tell anyone because they didn't want anyone to try to stop them...
It was the opposing teams idea and the captain of one team got in touch with the other captain and set up the play that would result in a downed knee at a particular spot...
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Because when a teacher is seen doing it, it looks like the teacher is leading it b/c the teacher is the adult. The teacher can join in quietly on the sidelines.
So what? It wasn't a teacher led prayer.
While the teacher is doing work related activities, he represents the school. The school has the right to restrict the appearance of promoting religion.
They aren't promoting it. It was student led.
Do you somehow think this was NOT organized or suggested by the adult?
You're not stupid, you can't possibly believe the adult wasn't behind it.
I'm curious as to why you think this Ed.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
So teachers give up their freedom of religion to teach? Good to know. NOT...
If they teach in a public school and they are IN the school then yes.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
If they are on school grounds and engaged in school activities then no. The only time I've seen a teacher be able to do that is when they sponsor a club or something. I'm sure things have changed since then but when I was in high school we had a Bible club. It was approved by the principal and we met every morning in an assigned classroom. We had to have a teacher "sponsor" it. IOW's we had to have someone to report to. BUT, and here's the deal, ANY religion could have done the same thing.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
In 2006, school officials at South Floyd High School in Floyd County, Kentucky tried to deny students permission for the flag pole rally, but attorneys from the Rutherford Institute successfully argued that the rally was protected by free speech rights. "It's important that students, teachers and others know about their right to participate in See You at the Pole events—a right affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court," said John W. Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, in a released statement. "The rallies are part of a long tradition of free and equal participation in expressive activities guaranteed by our Constitution."[2]
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]
The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiated and led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.
Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]
The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiatedand led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.
Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led
See the red.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.