When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.
Cause evidently you like to be wrong...
No. I'm not wrong. LL gave you legal reasons. I don't care what you believe or how rude you are to me about it. This is not what Christianity is about either. You cannot shame people, or force people, into believing like you.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.
Cause evidently you like to be wrong...
She's not wrong.
Thank you.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
Like students, teachers do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate. Tinker, 393 U.S. at 506. However, teachers’ rights in the public school are not co-extensive with rights of adults in other settings. Roberts v. Madigan, 921 F.2d 1047, 1056 (10th Cir. 1990). Therefore, whether teachers can actively participate in See You at the Pole depends on whether they are acting in their official capacity or as a citizen.
When teachers acting in their official capacity seek to participate in religious activities, courts typically hold that their free exercise rights can be restricted. Students, parents, or other members of the public may perceive teacher participation as placing the state’s imprimatur on the event. Id. at 1057. A United States District Court found that teachers, in their official capacity, could be present at student prayer at the school flagpole as long as they are acting in a supervisory capacity, without participating in the prayer. Daughtery v. Vanguard Charter Sch. Academy, 116 F. Supp. 2d 897, 910-11 (W.D. Mich. S.D. 2000).
If teachers, however, are acting as citizens, then they can pray at See You at the Pole. The United States Supreme Court has held that teachers cannot be
compelled to relinquish the First Amendment rights they would otherwise enjoy as citizens to comment on matters of public interest in connection with operation of the public school in which they work.
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Like students, teachers do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate. Tinker, 393 U.S. at 506. However, teachers’ rights in the public school are not co-extensive with rights of adults in other settings. Roberts v. Madigan, 921 F.2d 1047, 1056 (10th Cir. 1990). Therefore, whether teachers can actively participate in See You at the Pole depends on whether they are acting in their official capacity or as a citizen.
When teachers acting in their official capacity seek to participate in religious activities, courts typically hold that their free exercise rights can be restricted. Students, parents, or other members of the public may perceive teacher participation as placing the state’s imprimatur on the event. Id. at 1057. A United States District Court found that teachers, in their official capacity, could be present at student prayer at the school flagpole as long as they are acting in a supervisory capacity, without participating in the prayer. Daughtery v. Vanguard Charter Sch. Academy, 116 F. Supp. 2d 897, 910-11 (W.D. Mich. S.D. 2000).
If teachers, however, are acting as citizens, then they can pray at See You at the Pole. The United States Supreme Court has held that teachers cannot be
compelled to relinquish the First Amendment rights they would otherwise enjoy as citizens to comment on matters of public interest in connection with operation of the public school in which they work.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
If teachers, however, are acting as citizens, then they can pray at See You at the Pole. The United States Supreme Court has held that teachers cannot be compelled to relinquish the First Amendment rights they would otherwise enjoy as citizens to comment on matters of public interest in connection with operation of the public school in which they work.
-- Edited by Ohfour on Monday 14th of December 2015 03:31:36 PM
__________________
America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
When teachers lead or participate it gives the feeling that it's mandatory. That's what the difference is.
You might as well beat your head against a brick wall...
flan
I don't even know why I piped in on this thread.
Cause evidently you like to be wrong...
She's not wrong.
Thank you.
So all these court cases saying that teachers have a constitutional right to See You At The Pole are in my head? OK...
I think they do not say what you think they are saying. I said when a teacher is attending as a representative of the school and all the cases you quoted back me up. The ONLY time a teacher can take part is when they are there solely as a person and have no tie to the school activity as a teacher.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
If teachers, however, are acting as citizens, then they can pray at See You at the Pole. The United States Supreme Court has held that teachers cannot be compelled to relinquish the First Amendment rights they would otherwise enjoy as citizens to comment on matters of public interest in connection with operation of the public school in which they work.
-- Edited by Ohfour on Monday 14th of December 2015 03:31:36 PM
And that has no bearing on the OP because the teacher in question was a coach.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
They can be present but not participate which means they cannot join the prayer circle. That would actually mean they were participating.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]
The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiatedand led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.
Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led
Okay ohfour, have fun. You think you have the right to bull doze everyone with your beliefs. I'm not going to argue with you. Go right ahead. And the next time you start crying foul because the Christians rights are being bull dozed I will not defend you or your cause. I am tired of Christians like you trying to do the same thing to other people that you do not want forced on you. You don't want to bake a cake for someone because it goes against your belief system, too bad. You are now acting just like the people you despise.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
It means, in America, you have a government protected right to practice your religion. Regardless of what religion that is.
The problems that have been seen are not those trying to stop a Budist from practicing their religion. No one is stopping the Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, Satanic or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The only one being told not to pray in public, speak in public, being ridiculed or in every other way hindered is the Christian Faith.
Why do you think that is?
Oh, you don't like Salon? Don't tell me Christians are fine with Satanists trying to practice their religion. That's a load of BS.
If you don't like the following link, I can find 3 dozen more.
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Detroit became a flashpoint over the role of religion in a secular government this weekend, as Satanists unveiled a monument to Baphomet, the Independent reports. Christians protested the display, depicting a human body with a goat's head, wings, accompanied by statues of an adoring girl and boy.
Okay ohfour, have fun. You think you have the right to bull doze everyone with your beliefs. I'm not going to argue with you. Go right ahead. And the next time you start crying foul because the Christians rights are being bull dozed I will not defend you or your cause. I am tired of Christians like you trying to do the same thing to other people that you do not want forced on you. You don't want to bake a cake for someone because it goes against your belief system, too bad. You are now acting just like the people you despise.
In the U.S., school-sponsored prayers in public schools have been found unconstitutional, but prayers organized by students themselves are allowed and protected by free speech rights.[3]
The organization advocating and guiding student participation in SYATP events insists that they be exclusively student-initiatedand led without official endorsement or interference, according to rights affirmed by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District decision of the U.S. Supreme Court—as well as a 1995 Clinton administration assignment of the President's Secretary of Education for legalization of particular school religious activities as long as they passed constitutional guidelines. The American Civil Liberties Union also approves of student-led SYATP events held before or after school, provided the school neither encourages nor discourages participation.
Pastors, teachers, and other adults are often involved, and critics say that SYATP events often are only nominally student-led
See the red.
Oh know! Words in red! lol
See the red...
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
Okay ohfour, have fun. You think you have the right to bull doze everyone with your beliefs. I'm not going to argue with you. Go right ahead. And the next time you start crying foul because the Christians rights are being bull dozed I will not defend you or your cause. I am tired of Christians like you trying to do the same thing to other people that you do not want forced on you. You don't want to bake a cake for someone because it goes against your belief system, too bad. You are now acting just like the people you despise.
I'm not bulldozing anybody. I'm telling you that's how it works here. If someone has a problem, they can address it. But when you have 10K people at a football game every Friday night, and they prayer is said over the loudspeaker, there could be complaints. There aren't. No one here has a problem with it. Why do YOU have a problem with what we do?
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
It means, in America, you have a government protected right to practice your religion. Regardless of what religion that is.
The problems that have been seen are not those trying to stop a Budist from practicing their religion. No one is stopping the Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, Satanic or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The only one being told not to pray in public, speak in public, being ridiculed or in every other way hindered is the Christian Faith.
Why do you think that is?
Oh, you don't like Salon? Don't tell me Christians are fine with Satanists trying to practice their religion. That's a load of BS.
If you don't like the following link, I can find 3 dozen more.
-------------
Detroit became a flashpoint over the role of religion in a secular government this weekend, as Satanists unveiled a monument to Baphomet, the Independent reports. Christians protested the display, depicting a human body with a goat's head, wings, accompanied by statues of an adoring girl and boy.
What are the football teams praying for, anyway? To win? What if the other team prays harder?
They pray for the safety of the coaches and the players. They never pray to win.
I bet some of them pray to win. LOL.
LMAO Every sports prayer I've ever heard has some form of help us win in victory... speech.
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“You may shoot me with your words, you may cut me with your eyes, you may kill me with your hatefulness, but still, like air, I'll rise!” ― Maya Angelou
Where I live The school and community doesn't care if the Teachers Pray with their students at the meet at the pole. It is a small town and no one complains. They even allow Christian speakers to come and talk to the students during assembly. I think Oh fours community is like that and that was what she was trying to say.
What are the football teams praying for, anyway? To win? What if the other team prays harder?
God has NOTHING else on his mind but a stupid football game...
flan
I don't think He really cares who wins but I see nothing wrong with Praying for their safety and to play their best. I do have a confession to make. When I was in High School I use to Pray to win.
What are the football teams praying for, anyway? To win? What if the other team prays harder?
God has NOTHING else on his mind but a stupid football game...
flan
I don't think He really cares who wins but I see nothing wrong with Praying for their safety and to play their best. I do have a confession to make. When I was in High School I use to Pray to win.
See! I told you some of them pray to win!
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Sometimes, an injury can be an answer to another prayer.
Adversity is also how we grow our faith.
It's easy to trust God when everything is rainbows and kittens.
It's when we are in the valley that we learn to lean on God. To trust God.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.