TOTALLY GEEKED!

Tinydancer · Guru

RE: But I’m miserable. Why?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Yes, tough love doesn't exactly work.

Try compassion for a change.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
I take pills for my health every day. Without them not only would I feel terrible, I'd die. The side effects are awful but I take them because I should. Sometimes you have to put up with the other stuff to take care of the problem. No wonder no one goes for help with depression they way you all make it sound. Like it won't help or will make you sicker. If you (general you so no one takes it personally) need help with depression then GET it. Stop thinking you just have to live with it. Sheesh.

Of course you can easily quote where "we" have said that.

I believe "we" have said that depression is not a personality flaw, and that everyone deserves to feel better.

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I have a lot of empathy for those who are clinically depressed. People here would NEVER talk to someone with a heart problem or with diabetes the same way they talk to depressed patients. There is still a huge stigma in this country surrounding the mentally ill. Telling someone with clinical depression to "just get over it" is like being angry because you asked someone who has been blind from birth to describe the color yellow and they are unable to do it. It's not their "fault" as much as you'd, general you, would like to dump all the blame on them. Furthermore, many of the antidepressant meds have horrible side effects. I have a sister who is bipolar. They got her on meds and got her stabilized. The problem was that with most antidepressants she gained weight. She gained 60 pounds in two months. Faced with the world around her commenting on her weight she went off her meds. The next one they tried gave her SEVERE constipation. She almost had to be hospitalized for it. It's so easy for someone who isn't depressed to say, "Just take the pill." It's a lot harder to have to know that you have to take a pill for the rest of your life for your mental health that leaves the rest of your body destroyed.

Now feel free to flame away.
I have never flamed anyone for being depressed. However, people with physical ailments also get some tough talk. If you are a heart patient and you contine to smoke and eat a bunch of crap, then yes, you are not helping yourself. The POINT of any illness is that everyone has to take that responsibility for their own health. If you can't help yourself, you need to go find someone who can help you.

If you go back and read I didn't say people shouldn't get help or that they shouldn't take meds. I simply said that I understand why some people don't. And don't give me the line that people have other diseases that they take medicine for that makes them feel like crap. How many threads have we had on people who didn't want to spend their last days in chemo sick and miserable but instead wanted to enjoy them. As a nurse, I saw people all the time that didn't take meds because of the side effects. It's a very real and justified reason that people don't take them. Should they? Of course. But who wants to live in a miserable state of being every day?

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
I take pills for my health every day. Without them not only would I feel terrible, I'd die. The side effects are awful but I take them because I should. Sometimes you have to put up with the other stuff to take care of the problem. No wonder no one goes for help with depression they way you all make it sound. Like it won't help or will make you sicker. If you (general you so no one takes it personally) need help with depression then GET it. Stop thinking you just have to live with it. Sheesh.
Of course you can easily quote where "we" have said that.
I believe "we" have said that depression is not a personality flaw, and that everyone deserves to feel better.
flan

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I have a lot of empathy for those who are clinically depressed. People here would NEVER talk to someone with a heart problem or with diabetes the same way they talk to depressed patients. There is still a huge stigma in this country surrounding the mentally ill. Telling someone with clinical depression to "just get over it" is like being angry because you asked someone who has been blind from birth to describe the color yellow and they are unable to do it. It's not their "fault" as much as you'd, general you, would like to dump all the blame on them. Furthermore, many of the antidepressant meds have horrible side effects. I have a sister who is bipolar. They got her on meds and got her stabilized. The problem was that with most antidepressants she gained weight. She gained 60 pounds in two months. Faced with the world around her commenting on her weight she went off her meds. The next one they tried gave her SEVERE constipation. She almost had to be hospitalized for it. It's so easy for someone who isn't depressed to say, "Just take the pill." It's a lot harder to have to know that you have to take a pill for the rest of your life for your mental health that leaves the rest of your body destroyed.

Now feel free to flame away.

__________________

It doesn't matter if you can quote the Bible, if you live like you've never opened it.

Autism. It's not a tragedy. Running out of bacon is. Also ignorance. But mostly the bacon thing.

Sure not one post about how hard the medicine is on a depressed patient. People take medicine every day that makes them constipated or gain weight but we take them any way. Tell me why being depressed and not taking your meds is any different than have high blood pressure and not taking your meds. If you (general you) don't want to take care of your depression then that's on YOU. It's not up to anyone else to make YOU feel better. What part of that are you going to disagree with?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Yes, tough love doesn't exactly work.

Try compassion for a change.

flan

You can feel compassion and still want the person to get help. To do nothing but commiserate with someone that won't get help does nothing.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I have made 2 points about what real COMPASSION actually is. As i have said, if you are run over by a truck and break your leg, an ambulance comes and whisks you away, you have surgery, a nurse nurses you back to health. Then, one day, Nurse walks in and says "It is time to get out of bed". And, you think she's crazy, it still hurts like hell, there is no way. However, she makes you get up and start walking. It would be the height of irresponsibility for that nurse to not to that. That would not be compassionate that would be cruel to simply leave you in that state to spend the rest of your life bedridden.
You seem to want Pity, not compassion. Pity is a whole different thing than compassion.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, tough love doesn't exactly work.

Try compassion for a change.

flan
You can feel compassion and still want the person to get help. To do nothing but commiserate with someone that won't get help does nothing.

I was referring to ONE specific post.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Yes and I answered you. Funny how everyone else can say the same thing and you're fine with it.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Yes and I answered you. Funny how everyone else can say the same thing and you're fine with it.

That is a good point. Husker said the same things flan. You rarely call him out.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Yes and I answered you. Funny how everyone else can say the same thing and you're fine with it.
That is a good point. Husker said the same things flan. You rarely call him out.

I call him out ALL the time. But let's defend the poor victimized ____.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

You are the one acting all victimized. How do you deal with real life when people disagree with you? Do you put on your pouty face and act like a baby?

huskerbb · Guru

I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.

One more time:

Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.

husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan

So, back to Husker's point - they will remain miserable and depressed and make everyone else around them miserable, too. Because they don't feel like they deserve help, they will ignore all the people who love them telling them to get help and ignore how they are affecting others.

Tinydancer · Guru

But they don't feel like they deserve help and they don't really care who else it affects. It's true that misery loves company so maybe that's why.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan

You keep saying that flan about 'deserve", so what is your point? What do you propose?

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan

Deserve has nothing to do with anything.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan
So, back to Husker's point - they will remain miserable and depressed and make everyone else around them miserable, too. Because they don't feel like they deserve help, they will ignore all the people who love them telling them to get help and ignore how they are affecting others.

I swear, it's like trying to describe colors to a blind person...

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan
Deserve has nothing to do with anything.

It could NOT be any more important.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Well then explain it so it makes sense instead of getting all butthurt because people disagree.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I posted this in the Break Room:

Depression is such a cruel punishment. There are no fevers, no rashes, no blood tests to send people scurrying in concern, just the slow erosion of self, as insidious as cancer.

And, like cancer, it is essentially a solitary experience; a room in Hell with only your name on the door.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan
Deserve has nothing to do with anything.
It could NOT be any more important.
flan

What do you propose?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I don't care what you are talking about. Compassion is useless if someone isn't willing to take steps to get help or change their circumstances. Heck, in this case, it apparently can't even make them feel any better.
One more time:
Often it's not a case of being "willing" to get help. They feel they don't deserve help. So it may take a combination of compassion and tough love. It may work, it may not.
husker, I don't pretend to know anything about farming. Be thankful that YOU don't know anything about clinical depression. Looking in from the outside is not the same as actually experiencing it.
flan
So, back to Husker's point - they will remain miserable and depressed and make everyone else around them miserable, too. Because they don't feel like they deserve help, they will ignore all the people who love them telling them to get help and ignore how they are affecting others.
I swear, it's like trying to describe colors to a blind person...
flan

Really? Because talking to you is like talking to an addict. You just keep making excuses for why people won't get help. You just want people to put up with it and pity you. It's EXACTLY your attitude that makes people frustrated and impatient with people who don't get help. And they you wonder why people wouldn't want to stick around depressed people.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
I posted this in the Break Room:

Depression is such a cruel punishment. There are no fevers, no rashes, no blood tests to send people scurrying in concern, just the slow erosion of self, as insidious as cancer.

And, like cancer, it is essentially a solitary experience; a room in Hell with only your name on the door.

flan

No. You couldn't be more wrong. It affects everyone around you, whether you want to see and admit that or not.

Tinydancer · Guru

So all the people you (general you) make miserable because you have depression DESERVE that? That seems really really selfish to me.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I keep EXPLAINING because, unless you have personally EXPERIENCED depression, you cannot understand.

That is pitifully obvious on this thread.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
I keep EXPLAINING because, unless you have personally EXPERIENCED depression, you cannot understand.

That is pitifully obvious on this thread.

flan

It is an illness. Get help. If you refuse to get help, please stop blaming others for "not understanding".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I keep EXPLAINING because, unless you have personally EXPERIENCED depression, you cannot understand.

That is pitifully obvious on this thread.

flan
It is an illness. Get help. If you refuse to get help, please stop blaming others for "not understanding".

I hope no one in your family is ever affected...

And you just proved my point better than I ever could.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I posted this in the Break Room:

Depression is such a cruel punishment. There are no fevers, no rashes, no blood tests to send people scurrying in concern, just the slow erosion of self, as insidious as cancer.

And, like cancer, it is essentially a solitary experience; a room in Hell with only your name on the door.

flan
No. You couldn't be more wrong. It affects everyone around you, whether you want to see and admit that or not.

Depression flourishes in isolation, THAT is the point.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I keep EXPLAINING because, unless you have personally EXPERIENCED depression, you cannot understand.

That is pitifully obvious on this thread.

flan
It is an illness. Get help. If you refuse to get help, please stop blaming others for "not understanding".
I hope no one in your family is ever affected...
And you just proved my point better than I ever could.
flan

I already mentioned my sister suffers from depression. When she's off her meds she's miserable to be around. I have lot's of compassion for her but I am also sick to death of her ruining family get togethers because she didn't take her meds. I love her with all my heart but sometimes I just want to shake her and tell her to either take your meds or don't come and ruin it for everyone else.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I posted this in the Break Room:

Depression is such a cruel punishment. There are no fevers, no rashes, no blood tests to send people scurrying in concern, just the slow erosion of self, as insidious as cancer.

And, like cancer, it is essentially a solitary experience; a room in Hell with only your name on the door.

flan
No. You couldn't be more wrong. It affects everyone around you, whether you want to see and admit that or not.
Depression flourishes in isolation, THAT is the point.
flan

And why are you isolated? Because you REFUSE TO GET HELP.

No, it's not an easy thing to do, but you are still an adult and adults have to do things they don't want to do sometimes, to help themselves and those around them.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I keep EXPLAINING because, unless you have personally EXPERIENCED depression, you cannot understand.

That is pitifully obvious on this thread.

flan
It is an illness. Get help. If you refuse to get help, please stop blaming others for "not understanding".
I hope no one in your family is ever affected...
And you just proved my point better than I ever could.
flan

I already mentioned my sister suffers from depression. When she's off her meds she's miserable to be around. I have lot's of compassion for her but I am also sick to death of her ruining family get togethers because she didn't take her meds. I love her with all my heart but sometimes I just want to shake her and tell her to either take your meds or don't come and ruin it for everyone else.

That's the thing, so many people refuse to take their medication when they KNOW they need it.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?

WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???

WHAT DOES IT MATTER? EVERYONE HERE KNOWS MORE THAN I DO.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
WHAT DOES IT MATTER? EVERYONE HERE KNOWS MORE THAN I DO.
flan

If you have some nugget of wisdom the rest of us didn't mention, then tell us. Or, TELL ME.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I've TOLD you, LGS, that I can only speak to MY experience.

Hell, if I had a magic wand that could eliminate depression, I would have used it decades ago.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
WHAT DOES IT MATTER? EVERYONE HERE KNOWS MORE THAN I DO.
flan
If you have some nugget of wisdom the rest of us didn't mention, then tell us. Or, TELL ME.

I don't mind PM'ing you. Thanks.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You told me your experience. You keep saying they don't feel like they DESERVE help. I have asked you OVER and OVER what someone should do to get help in that situation.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???

You don't honestly think she is going to answer you, do you? She just wants you to feel pity and leave them alone.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
You don't honestly think she is going to answer you, do you? She just wants you to feel pity and leave them alone.

You're more intelligent than that.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

If playing the poor poor victim card is so much easier than taking care of yourself there is NOTHING anyone else can do.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
I've TOLD you, LGS, that I can only speak to MY experience.

Hell, if I had a magic wand that could eliminate depression, I would have used it decades ago.

flan

There are some people that are so ill, no matter what is done, they will never get better. But there are others that could get treatment and don't and those are the ones that need to be shaken. You said you suffer from "bouts" of depression, which means there are times when you are fine. You should be taking a proactive approach during the lucid times you are feeling better to see a doctor and prepare for the next "bout".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I've TOLD you, LGS, that I can only speak to MY experience.

Hell, if I had a magic wand that could eliminate depression, I would have used it decades ago.

flan
There are some people that are so ill, no matter what is done, they will never get better. But there are others that could get treatment and don't and those are the ones that need to be shaken. You said you suffer from "bouts" of depression, which means there are times when you are fine. You should be taking a proactive approach during the lucid times you are feeling better to see a doctor and prepare for the next "bout".

Oh, thanks, I had no idea that I should be doing that...

And "lucid" is not the right word.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
You don't honestly think she is going to answer you, do you? She just wants you to feel pity and leave them alone.

You're more intelligent than that.
flan

That is pretty much exactly what you've said, flan. That the rest of us just need to feel compassion.

I feel compassion - mainly for the family members who have to deal with people who won't get treatment even when begged. It's no different than dealing with an addict that won't go to rehab.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
You don't honestly think she is going to answer you, do you? She just wants you to feel pity and leave them alone.

You're more intelligent than that.
flan
That is pretty much exactly what you've said, flan. That the rest of us just need to feel compassion.

I feel compassion - mainly for the family members who have to deal with people who won't get treatment even when begged. It's no different than dealing with an addict that won't go to rehab.

Compassion is just one part.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
WHAT DOES IT MATTER? EVERYONE HERE KNOWS MORE THAN I DO.
flan

If what you have done to date hasn't really done anything, perhaps you need to examine that possibility. All your wisdom and knowledge on this subject doesn't seem to have made much difference.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I've TOLD you, LGS, that I can only speak to MY experience.

Hell, if I had a magic wand that could eliminate depression, I would have used it decades ago.

flan
There are some people that are so ill, no matter what is done, they will never get better. But there are others that could get treatment and don't and those are the ones that need to be shaken. You said you suffer from "bouts" of depression, which means there are times when you are fine. You should be taking a proactive approach during the lucid times you are feeling better to see a doctor and prepare for the next "bout".
Oh, thanks, I had no idea that I should be doing that...
And "lucid" is not the right word.
flan

Why not? You have made it sound as though people in a state of depression are incapable of thinking clearly and understanding their actions.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What do you PROPOSE flan to make someone understand they DESERVE help?
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE???
WHAT DOES IT MATTER? EVERYONE HERE KNOWS MORE THAN I DO.
flan
If what you have done to date hasn't really done anything, perhaps you need to examine that possibility. All your wisdom and knowledge on this subject doesn't seem to have made much difference.

What the HELL are you talking about?

I am happy, I have a good job that I love & I am a fantastic librarian & storyteller. I have friends, my sons love me...

flan