You're kidding right? Some of us have lives outside this board. I'm supposed to babysit my posts, in case someone answers?
Keep participating in this endless loop? White-knuckling it in the hopes that there's another Creationist jeremiad in the works?
Last night I went to a fund-raiser, where a friend of mine was performing. Tonight I may go to the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts to see the birds making music on Les Paul and Gibson guitars.
Do I have your permission?
You do know that Les Paul is a signature series of Gibson, right?
But yes, it is a nice guitar. Full tones.
Takamine makes a beautiful guitar as well. Have a friend who plays a 12 string. Pearl white. It's truly soul warming watching and hearing him play.
My pawpaw had several of the Les Paul guitars.
I had a junior Gibson acustic.
Yes, they have birds landing on the guitar strings and making music. Very nice guitars, indeed.
You're kidding right? Some of us have lives outside this board. I'm supposed to babysit my posts, in case someone answers?
Keep participating in this endless loop? White-knuckling it in the hopes that there's another Creationist jeremiad in the works?
Last night I went to a fund-raiser, where a friend of mine was performing. Tonight I may go to the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts to see the birds making music on Les Paul and Gibson guitars.
Do I have your permission?
You do know that Les Paul is a signature series of Gibson, right?
But yes, it is a nice guitar. Full tones.
Takamine makes a beautiful guitar as well. Have a friend who plays a 12 string. Pearl white. It's truly soul warming watching and hearing him play.
My pawpaw had several of the Les Paul guitars.
I had a junior Gibson acustic.
Yes, they have birds landing on the guitar strings and making music. Very nice guitars, indeed.
Oh. Bird poop on a Les Paul.
Ok.
__________________
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I can no more choose to believe in a deity than I can choose to believe that a magic sombrero will protect me from mind readers.
Yes, it's called critical thinking. You can rely on your superstitions all you want. Nobody is stopping you.
I have to go.
A la prochaine.
I can no more choose to believe in a deity than I can choose to believe that a magic sombrero will protect me from mind readers. Yes, it's called critical thinking. You can rely on your superstitions all you want. Nobody is stopping you. I have to go. A la prochaine.
And there's the one year old's argument.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Anyway, I don't mind being called a child in matters of faith:
Luke 18:17 - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
I do, however, take exception to the statement that having faith means you have no "accumulated knowledge" which is patently untrue and I would challenge pretty much anyone on that score--and with few exceptions, I'd win.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
You're kidding right? Some of us have lives outside this board. I'm supposed to babysit my posts, in case someone answers?
Keep participating in this endless loop? White-knuckling it in the hopes that there's another Creationist jeremiad in the works?
Last night I went to a fund-raiser, where a friend of mine was performing. Tonight I may go to the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts to see the birds making music on Les Paul and Gibson guitars.
Do I have your permission?
OH, i see. More the equivalent of "many degrees". You want to comapare I guess. Well, let's see. This past weekend i cooked a homemade meal for my son's 20th birthday to celebrate. I attended my younger son's basketball tournament of which he was choosen for the "All Tournament Team". I got some NHL hockey tickets online and we drove down to the game and had a really nice family night. This morning i got up at 630am to drive my daughter out of town for her AAU travel basketball team practice. Then, when we got back, i made fresh pasta and made my own homemade lasagna noodles and then baked a nice lasagna for my BIL and SIL who came up to spend the day. We ate dinner, then went out bowling. We finished up the evening with pie and coffee and they just went home. So, you seem to "not have time" when i ask you very pointed questions and then you disappear rather than answer them. But, i am a very patient person. So, the questions have been posed to you on many pages of this thread. So, i assume you are going to have some free time to post and read here, so I and others are waiting for your answers.
You're kidding right? Some of us have lives outside this board. I'm supposed to babysit my posts, in case someone answers?
Keep participating in this endless loop? White-knuckling it in the hopes that there's another Creationist jeremiad in the works?
Last night I went to a fund-raiser, where a friend of mine was performing. Tonight I may go to the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts to see the birds making music on Les Paul and Gibson guitars.
Do I have your permission?
OH, i see. More the equivalent of "many degrees". You want to comapare I guess. Well, let's see. This past weekend i cooked a homemade meal for my son's 20th birthday to celebrate. I attended my younger son's basketball tournament of which he was choosen for the "All Tournament Team". I got some NHL hockey tickets online and we drove down to the game and had a really nice family night. This morning i got up at 630am to drive my daughter out of town for her AAU travel basketball team practice. Then, when we got back, i made fresh pasta and made my own homemade lasagna noodles and then baked a nice lasagna for my BIL and SIL who came up to spend the day. We ate dinner, then went out bowling. We finished up the evening with pie and coffee and they just went home. So, you seem to "not have time" when i ask you very pointed questions and then you disappear rather than answer them. But, i am a very patient person. So, the questions have been posed to you on many pages of this thread. So, i assume you are going to have some free time to post and read here, so I and others are waiting for your answers.
AGAIN with the "degrees"? My goodness, it must have gotten under your skin like Morgellons Disease.
It was funny for a while, but now has reached pathological proportions and you're coming off as desperate and pathetic.
Maybe if you reference it another 86 times, you'll get it out of your system.
This conversation is an infinite Mobius strip. I'll say there's evidence of the Big Bang and of evolution, it will be completely ignored, and someone will come along with the absurd request that I prove there is no god.
Over and over again.
I'm done. You can speak in tongues, handle snakes and wait anxiously for the Rapture. I really don't care at this point.
Nothing into everything Welts. Are you gonna answer?
I don't see any reason why Welts might dignify this with a response.
There is nothing "undignified" about this question. Welts has been yelling for PROOF PROOF PROOF. This is a fundamental question. How did Nothing create everything. Feel free to take a stab at it yourself.
Nothing into everything Welts. Are you gonna answer?
I don't see any reason why Welts might dignify this with a response.
There is nothing "undignified" about this question. Welts has been yelling for PROOF PROOF PROOF. This is a fundamental question. How did Nothing create everything. Feel free to take a stab at it yourself.
Sure:
God made the Big Bang, then watched as everything unfolded over time.
Satisfied?
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
…13"If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.15"Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Sunday 3rd of January 2016 09:15:52 AM
__________________
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Well. I have reached a point in my life where arguing isn't worth it when no one is listening.
Once a heart has been hardened, there is nothing that can be said or done.
They've heard the word.
Now, it's up to them and they will reap what they sew.
__________________
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end.
Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion.
But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart.
I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end. Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion. But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart. I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
OK. Then, you either believe in an ETERNAL God (which is scoffed at repeatedly by nonbelievers) or instead you must believe that matter is eternal.
As for God, God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He wasn't created. He has always existed and always will. He exists outside of and beyond creation. He didn't "come from" anyone or anything.
Now, it's your turn. Where did your "eternal matter" come from?
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end. Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion. But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart. I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
OK. Then, you either believe in an ETERNAL God (which is scoffed at repeatedly by nonbelievers) or instead you must believe that matter is eternal.
As for God, God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He wasn't created. He has always existed and always will. He exists outside of and beyond creation. He didn't "come from" anyone or anything.
Now, it's your turn. Where did your "eternal matter" come from?
Reread what I wrote. I already answered that. Or, replace God with universe in your second paragraph, amd it comes out to the same thing.
Why does the universe require a beginning, and God does not?
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end. Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion. But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart. I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
OK. Then, you either believe in an ETERNAL God (which is scoffed at repeatedly by nonbelievers) or instead you must believe that matter is eternal.
As for God, God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He wasn't created. He has always existed and always will. He exists outside of and beyond creation. He didn't "come from" anyone or anything.
Now, it's your turn. Where did your "eternal matter" come from?
Reread what I wrote. I already answered that. Or, replace God with universe in your second paragraph, amd it comes out to the same thing.
Why does the universe require a beginning, and God does not?
Reread what I wrote. If God required a beginning, then He is not God, period. But, if the Universe "began",then we have to explain it. So, did God create it? If you don't believe in God, then you are left with Nothing Creating Itself. Then, the only other answer becomes that matter is somehow "eternal" which science has not demonstrated so you are exercising your 'faith" in the mystery "eternal matter". It is really the only two choices. So, out of faith, you have to pick one or the other.
Actually, the earth will be here. The Bible says that Jesus will return and the earth will be God's footstool.
__________________
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end. Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion. But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart. I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
OK. Then, you either believe in an ETERNAL God (which is scoffed at repeatedly by nonbelievers) or instead you must believe that matter is eternal.
As for God, God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He wasn't created. He has always existed and always will. He exists outside of and beyond creation. He didn't "come from" anyone or anything.
Now, it's your turn. Where did your "eternal matter" come from?
Reread what I wrote. I already answered that. Or, replace God with universe in your second paragraph, amd it comes out to the same thing.
Why does the universe require a beginning, and God does not?
Reread what I wrote. If God required a beginning, then He is not God, period. But, if the Universe "began",then we have to explain it. So, did God create it? If you don't believe in God, then you are left with Nothing Creating Itself. Then, the only other answer becomes that matter is somehow "eternal" which science has not demonstrated so you are exercising your 'faith" in the mystery "eternal matter". It is really the only two choices. So, out of faith, you have to pick one or the other.
Not really.
Considering that Time is infinite, one theory is that the Big Bang that led to us being here discussing this, was the latest one of a series of Big Bangs. Eventually, the Universe collapses into itself, and there will be another Big Bang. And there could have been several before. Or MANY MANY before.
Another theory is ...
We have a mystery that we don't have to solve. Or a mystery that we will never solve. Or that humans (or descendants) will solve in another million years. Or not.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
Or, you believe the universe (and life) are endless and beginningless, and has always been and was never created and will never end. Earth will end. Our sun will explode, earth will be consumed in the expansion. But, the universe will simply keep expanding, with new planets and stars coming together and falling apart. I may as well ask you where God came from. What existed before God? Who created Him?
OK. Then, you either believe in an ETERNAL God (which is scoffed at repeatedly by nonbelievers) or instead you must believe that matter is eternal.
As for God, God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He wasn't created. He has always existed and always will. He exists outside of and beyond creation. He didn't "come from" anyone or anything.
Now, it's your turn. Where did your "eternal matter" come from?
Reread what I wrote. I already answered that. Or, replace God with universe in your second paragraph, amd it comes out to the same thing.
Why does the universe require a beginning, and God does not?
Reread what I wrote. If God required a beginning, then He is not God, period. But, if the Universe "began",then we have to explain it. So, did God create it? If you don't believe in God, then you are left with Nothing Creating Itself. Then, the only other answer becomes that matter is somehow "eternal" which science has not demonstrated so you are exercising your 'faith" in the mystery "eternal matter". It is really the only two choices. So, out of faith, you have to pick one or the other.
Not really.
Considering that Time is infinite, one theory is that the Big Bang that led to us being here discussing this, was the latest one of a series of Big Bangs. Eventually, the Universe collapses into itself, and there will be another Big Bang. And there could have been several before. Or MANY MANY before.
Another theory is ...
We have a mystery that we don't have to solve. Or a mystery that we will never solve. Or that humans (or descendants) will solve in another million years. Or not.
There either was SOMETHING or there was NOTHING. So, if there was NOTHING, then how did NOTHING become something? If there was SOMETHING, then what was it? IF you don't know, fine. Then, just say "I don't know". So, then you cannot then go running around claiming GOD does not exist then as some here do.
Considering that Time is infinite, one theory is that the Big Bang that led to us being here discussing this, was the latest one of a series of Big Bangs. Eventually, the Universe collapses into itself, and there will be another Big Bang. And there could have been several before. Or MANY MANY before.
Another theory is ...
We have a mystery that we don't have to solve. Or a mystery that we will never solve. Or that humans (or descendants) will solve in another million years. Or not.
There either was SOMETHING or there was NOTHING. So, if there was NOTHING, then how did NOTHING become something? If there was SOMETHING, then what was it? IF you don't know, fine. Then, just say "I don't know". So, then you cannot then go running around claiming GOD does not exist then as some here do.
Thank you for acknowledging that I haven't denied the existence of God. I DO deny that the time frame listed in Genesis works, unless a "DAY" is not tied to what we currently call a 24 hour time period.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
Considering that Time is infinite, one theory is that the Big Bang that led to us being here discussing this, was the latest one of a series of Big Bangs. Eventually, the Universe collapses into itself, and there will be another Big Bang. And there could have been several before. Or MANY MANY before.
Another theory is ...
We have a mystery that we don't have to solve. Or a mystery that we will never solve. Or that humans (or descendants) will solve in another million years. Or not.
There either was SOMETHING or there was NOTHING. So, if there was NOTHING, then how did NOTHING become something? If there was SOMETHING, then what was it? IF you don't know, fine. Then, just say "I don't know". So, then you cannot then go running around claiming GOD does not exist then as some here do.
Thank you for acknowledging that I haven't denied the existence of God. I DO deny that the time frame listed in Genesis works, unless a "DAY" is not tied to what we currently call a 24 hour time period.
Well, before we can even establish Jehovah or any other God, we simply need to hash out whether GOD was involved in creation or not, whomever that may be. So, to me, let's go back to point zero. God created? Or creation created itself? Once we establish that then we can argue about which God.
Considering that Time is infinite, one theory is that the Big Bang that led to us being here discussing this, was the latest one of a series of Big Bangs. Eventually, the Universe collapses into itself, and there will be another Big Bang. And there could have been several before. Or MANY MANY before.
Another theory is ...
We have a mystery that we don't have to solve. Or a mystery that we will never solve. Or that humans (or descendants) will solve in another million years. Or not.
There either was SOMETHING or there was NOTHING. So, if there was NOTHING, then how did NOTHING become something? If there was SOMETHING, then what was it? IF you don't know, fine. Then, just say "I don't know". So, then you cannot then go running around claiming GOD does not exist then as some here do.
Thank you for acknowledging that I haven't denied the existence of God. I DO deny that the time frame listed in Genesis works, unless a "DAY" is not tied to what we currently call a 24 hour time period.
Ok but that is a much later argument after the fact. And, those who want to muddy the waters on whether God created or Creation Created always want to zoom ahead to argue about the details BEFORE establishing the beginning one way or the other. IF you acknowledge that GOD did indeed create, then fine we can discuss the details at this point. If you don't acknowledge GOD, then you need to establish how Creation created itself. So, once that is done, then we can talk details. But, nonbelievers always started with PRESUMED creation then try to argue about details and gloss over the fact that they cannot explain that! But, then will point to Science, science, science of which they have none.
Why is it so hard to grasp that some of us, namely, me, do not believe that there was ever nothing? That there is no 'creation creati bf itself'?
I believe that the universe has always existed. The EARTH, small, paltry EARTH, has been around for billions of years! That is an unimaginable amount of time.
What if the universe has always existed, and there is no before?
Why is it so hard to grasp that some of us, namely, me, do not believe that there was ever nothing? That there is no 'creation creati bf itself'? I believe that the universe has always existed. The EARTH, small, paltry EARTH, has been around for billions of years! That is an unimaginable amount of time. What if the universe has always existed, and there is no before?
So, then matter is eternal? So, that is OK to accept but you cannot accept an Eternal God? That is illogical.
While I acknowledge that God is possible, I don't believe he created the universe or life, because I don't believe they were 'created' at all, and because I don't believe God exists. I believe he was created by man, no the other way around.
I simply don't believe in God. But why do you so readily accept that God is eternal, but refuse the idea that the universe could be?
THAT is illogical. Everything obeys the law of beginnings and ends, except God? Really?
I simply don't believe in God. But why do you so readily accept that God is eternal, but refuse the idea that the universe could be? THAT is illogical. Everything obeys the law of beginnings and ends, except God? Really?
If you don't believe in God, then you are believing things that defy Natural Law. So, really you have "faith". lol Your mystery beginning does not obey any laws either. So, what it is?
I simply don't believe in God. But why do you so readily accept that God is eternal, but refuse the idea that the universe could be? THAT is illogical. Everything obeys the law of beginnings and ends, except God? Really?
Yes, God exists outside and beyond all that is. So, if God was subject to "laws", then he isn't the Law giver. Not so sure what is so hard to understand about an eternal omnipotent, omnipresencent, omniscient God.
Why is it so hard to grasp that some of us, namely, me, do not believe that there was ever nothing? That there is no 'creation creati bf itself'? I believe that the universe has always existed. The EARTH, small, paltry EARTH, has been around for billions of years! That is an unimaginable amount of time. What if the universe has always existed, and there is no before?
So, then matter is eternal? So, that is OK to accept but you cannot accept an Eternal God? That is illogical.
We have experience with matter. We can test it, weigh it, observe its properties.
I simply don't believe in God. But why do you so readily accept that God is eternal, but refuse the idea that the universe could be? THAT is illogical. Everything obeys the law of beginnings and ends, except God? Really?
Yes, God exists outside and beyond all that is. So, if God was subject to "laws", then he isn't the Law giver. Not so sure what is so hard to understand about an eternal omnipotent, omnipresencent, omniscient God.
I simply don't believe in God. But why do you so readily accept that God is eternal, but refuse the idea that the universe could be? THAT is illogical. Everything obeys the law of beginnings and ends, except God? Really?
Yes, God exists outside and beyond all that is. So, if God was subject to "laws", then he isn't the Law giver. Not so sure what is so hard to understand about an eternal omnipotent, omnipresencent, omniscient God.
Leonard Hofstadter: So, what kind of cruise is this you're going on?
Mary Cooper: It's called The Born-Again Boat-ride. 'Christian Quarterly' gave it their highest rating, five thorny crowns. I do wish you'd come with me, Sheldon.
Sheldon Cooper: Uh, well, Mom, if I did, it would be conclusive proof that your God can work miracles.
Mary Cooper: You're missing out; it's going to be wall-to-wall fun; it's all themed. There's Jonah and the Whale-watching. All you can eat Last Supper buffet. And, my personal favorite, Gunning with God.
Leonard Hofstadter: What's Gunning with God? I'm afraid to ask.
Mary Cooper: Oh, it is a hoot-and-a-half. You write your sins on a clay pigeon, they fire 'em up in the air, and you pulverize 'em with a 12-gauge shotgun full of our Lord's forgiveness.
Sheldon Cooper: Frankly, Mom, I'm encouraged to see how advanced your group has become. You're willing to sail out into the ocean without fear of falling off the edge.
Mary Cooper: For example, if Shelly was aboard, he'd write 'smart-mouth' on his pigeon. And then *BAM*!
Sheldon Cooper: The Lord giveth and the Lord bloweth away.