TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

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 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

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 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

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 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

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 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

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 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

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 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

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 And yet you presume that scientists in the last 150 years have figured it out.

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 I think it's a plausible theory.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Who has figured what out?? Scientists have a lot of theories about life, and why it looked like and when it began, but there isn't an universally accepted one by any means, aND probably never will be.

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 Then why is a divine being not a valid theory?

ed11563 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Who has figured what out?? Scientists have a lot of theories about life, and why it looked like and when it began, but there isn't an universally accepted one by any means, aND probably never will be.

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 Then why is a divine being not a valid theory?

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Who's to say that a Divine Being DIDN'T create the Big Bang and everything that followed, including evolution? 

Couldn't THAT have been the plan?

 

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 It could have been.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

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 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

---

 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

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 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

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 And yet you presume that scientists in the last 150 years have figured it out.

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 I think it's a plausible theory.

flan

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 And why isn't God?  We have a Bible full of eyewitness accounts of the miracles of God from people who lived and saw them, and yet you give more credence to scientiests guessing.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

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 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

---

 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

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 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

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 And yet you presume that scientists in the last 150 years have figured it out.

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 I think it's a plausible theory.

flan

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 And why isn't God?  We have a Bible full of eyewitness accounts of the miracles of God from people who lived and saw them, and yet you give more credence to scientiests guessing.

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 Ah, yes, those eyewitness accounts...

flan

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 So...NO eyewitness accounts is more proof???

 

That makes ZERO sense.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

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 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

---

 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

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 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

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 And yet you presume that scientists in the last 150 years have figured it out.

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 I think it's a plausible theory.

flan

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 And why isn't God?  We have a Bible full of eyewitness accounts of the miracles of God from people who lived and saw them, and yet you give more credence to scientiests guessing.

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 Ah, yes, those eyewitness accounts...

flan

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   Well, flan, if you understood how Historicity was determined, you would understand that historical accounts are part of that.  And, btw, eyewitness evidence is also evidence in a court of law.  Some realy bee has gotten in to your bonnet lately.  Wow.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Spoiler

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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You sniff at the Bible for Zap Ta da and yet you believe exactly the same thing sans God.

---

 Exactly!  People believe magic happened without God!  Life does not come from non-life all by itself.  It does not happen!

---

 I do not at all believe that the creation of life counts as magic, for one thing. For anothet, since we have no way of seeing a time before life existed, I am not convinced there ever was a 'beginning', where none life became life. 

Perhaps some things don't have a beginning,  and life in the universe is one of those things. 

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 Everything has a beginning.  How would there not be a beginning - no matter how long ago? 

---

 Because we are human beings & cannot possibly understand the mysteries of the universe.

flan

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 And yet you presume that scientists in the last 150 years have figured it out.

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 I think it's a plausible theory.

flan

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 And why isn't God?  We have a Bible full of eyewitness accounts of the miracles of God from people who lived and saw them, and yet you give more credence to scientiests guessing.

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 Ah, yes, those eyewitness accounts...

flan

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   Well, flan, if you understood how Historicity was determined, you would understand that historical accounts are part of that.  And, btw, eyewitness evidence is also evidence in a court of law.  Some realy bee has gotten in to your bonnet lately.  Wow.

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 What do you mean? It's the way I've always felt.

flan

huskerbb wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Every single religion has eyewitness accounts.

flan

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 But the Big Bang does not.

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 Ummm...because no humans were actually alive then?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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And, the eyewitness accounts WERE alive during the time of Jesus. Whether you like it or not, that is historical evidence. There is more historical evidence for the Bible than any other historical events that you accept as fact.

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 That's your opinion.

flan

flan327 wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Every single religion has eyewitness accounts.

flan

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 But the Big Bang does not.

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 Ummm...because no humans were actually alive then?

flan

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 Yeah--but yet you are willing to accept something which no humans could possibly know over eyewitness accounts of certain historical events.  Bizarre.

flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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And, the eyewitness accounts WERE alive during the time of Jesus. Whether you like it or not, that is historical evidence. There is more historical evidence for the Bible than any other historical events that you accept as fact.

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 That's your opinion.

flan

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 No, it's not my "opinion" flan.  I dont' establish Historical truths.  Sheesh.   

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 Read your last sentence again..."more historical evidence for the Bible..."

flan

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 You word to be bolding is "HISTORICAL".  There are written words and documents, even besides the Bible that  corroborate historical events in the Bible.  Additionally, there is scientific evidence of things found in the Bible - archeologists routinely make discoveries that support the Bible as historically accurate -

 

 

Archaeological finds that contradict the contentions of biblical minimalists and other revisionists have been listed above. There are many more, however, that corroborate biblical evidence, and the following list provides only the most significant discoveries:

A Common Flood Story. Not just the Hebrews (Gen. 6–8), but Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and Greeks all report a flood in primordial times. A Sumerian king list from c. 2100 BC divides itself into two categories: those kings who ruled before a great flood and those who ruled after it. One of the earliest examples of Sumero-Akkadian-Babylonian literature, the Gilgamesh Epic, describes a great flood sent as punishment by the gods, with humanity saved only when the pious Utnapishtim (AKA, “the Mesopotamian Noah”) builds a ship and saves the animal world thereon. A later Greek counterpart, the story of Deucalion and Phyrra, tells of a couple who survived a great flood sent by an angry Zeus. Taking refuge atop Mount Parnassus (AKA, “the Greek Ararat”), they supposedly repopulated the earth by heaving stones behind them that sprang into human beings.

The Code of Hammurabi. This seven-foot black diorite stele, discovered at Susa and presently located in the Louvre museum, contains 282 engraved laws of Babylonian King Hammurabi (fl. 1750 BC). The common basis for this law code is the lex talionis (“the law of the tooth”), showing that there was a common Semitic law of retribution in the ancient Near East, which is clearly reflected in the Pentateuch. Exodus 21:23–25, for example, reads: “But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot…” (niv).

The Nuzi Tablets. The some 20,000 cuneiform clay tablets discovered at the ruins of Nuzi, east of the Tigris River and datable to c. 1500 BC, reveal institutions, practices, and customs remarkably congruent to those found in Genesis. These tablets include treaties, marriage arrangements, rules regarding inheritance, adoption, and the like.

The Existence of Hittites. Genesis 23 reports that Abraham buried Sarah in the Cave of Machpelah, which he purchased from Ephron the Hittite. Second Samuel 11 tells of David’s adultery with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite. A century ago the Hittites were unknown outside of the Old Testament, and critics claimed that they were a figment of biblical imagination. In 1906, however, archaeologists digging east of Ankara, Turkey, discovered the ruins of Hattusas, the ancient Hittite capital at what is today called Boghazkoy, as well as its vast collection of Hittite historical records, which showed an empire flourishing in the mid-second millennium BC. This critical challenge, among many others, was immediately proved worthless — a pattern that would often be repeated in the decades to come.

The Merneptah Stele. A seven-foot slab engraved with hieroglyphics, also called the Israel Stele, boasts of the Egyptian pharaoh’s conquest of Libyans and peoples in Palestine, including the Israelites: “Israel — his seed is not.” This is the earliest reference to Israel in nonbiblical sources and demonstrates that, as of c. 1230 BC, the Hebrews were already living in the Promised Land.

Biblical Cities Attested Archaeologically. In addition to Jericho, places such as Haran, Hazor, Dan, Megiddo, Shechem, Samaria, Shiloh, Gezer, Gibeah, Beth Shemesh, Beth Shean, Beersheba, Lachish, and many other urban sites have been excavated, quite apart from such larger and obvious locations as Jerusalem or Babylon. Such geographical markers are extremely significant in demonstrating that fact, not fantasy,is intended in the Old Testament historical narratives; otherwise, the specificity regarding these urban sites would have been replaced by “Once upon a time” narratives with only hazy geographical parameters, if any.

Israel’s enemies in the Hebrew Bible likewise are not contrived but solidly historical. Among the most dangerous of these were the Philistines, the people after whom Palestine itself would be named. Their earliest depiction is on the Temple of Rameses III at Thebes, c. 1150 BC, as “peoples of the sea” who invaded the Delta area and later the coastal plain of Canaan. The Pentapolis (five cities) they established — namely Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gaza, Gath, and Ekron — have all been excavated, at least in part, and some remain cities to this day. Such precise urban evidence measures favorably when compared with the geographical sites claimed in the holy books of other religious systems, which often have no basis whatever in reality.¹⁰

Shishak’s Invasion of Judah. First Kings 14 and 2 Chronicles 12 tell of Pharaoh Shishak’s conquest of Judah in the fifth year of the reign of King Rehoboam, the brainless son of Solomon, and how Solomon’s temple in Jerusalem was robbed of its treasures on that occasion. This victory is also commemorated in hieroglyphic wall carvings on the Temple of Amon at Thebes.

The Moabite Stone. Second Kings 3 reports that Mesha, the king of Moab, rebelled against the king of Israel following the death of Ahab. A three-foot stone slab, also called the Mesha Stele, confirms the revolt by claiming triumph over Ahab’s family, c. 850 BC, and that Israel had “perished forever.”

Obelisk of Shalmaneser III. In 2 Kings 9–10, Jehu is mentioned as King of Israel (841–814 BC). That the growing power of Assyria was already encroaching on the northern kings prior to their ultimate conquest in 722 BC is demonstrated by a six-and-a-half-foot black obelisk discovered in the ruins of the palace at Nimrud in 1846. On it, Jehu is shown kneeling before Shalmaneser III and offering tribute to the Assyrian king, the only relief we have to date of a Hebrew monarch.

Burial Plaque of King Uzziah. Down in Judah, King Uzziah ruled from 792 to 740 BC, a contemporary of Amos, Hosea, and Isaiah. Like Solomon, he began well and ended badly. In 2 Chronicles 26 his sin is recorded, which resulted in his being struck with leprosy later in life. When Uzziah died, he was interred in a “field of burial that belonged to the kings.” His stone burial plaque has been discovered on the Mount of Olives, and it reads: “Here, the bones of Uzziah, King of Judah, were brought. Do not open.”

Hezekiah’s Siloam Tunnel Inscription. King Hezekiah of Judah ruled from 721 to 686 BC. Fearing a siege by the Assyrian king, Sennacherib, Hezekiah preserved Jerusalem’s water supply by cutting a tunnel through 1,750 feet of solid rock from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam inside the city walls (2 Kings 20; 2 Chron. 32). At the Siloam end of the tunnel, an inscription, presently in the archaeological museum at Istanbul, Turkey, celebrates this remarkable accomplishment. The tunnel is probably the only biblical site that has not changed its appearance in 2,700 years.

The Sennacherib Prism. After having conquered the 10 northern tribes of Israel, the Assyrians moved southward to do the same to Judah (2 Kings 18–19). The prophet Isaiah, however, told Hezekiah that God would protect Judah and Jerusalem against Sennacherib (2 Chron. 32; Isa. 36–37). Assyrian records virtually confirm this. The cuneiform on a hexagonal, 15-inch baked clay prism found at the Assyrian capital of Nineveh describes Sennacherib’s invasion of Judah in 701 BC in which it claims that the Assyrian king shut Hezekiah inside Jerusalem “like a caged bird.” Like the biblical record, however, it does not state that he conquered Jerusalem, which the prism certainly would have done had this been the case. The Assyrians, in fact, bypassed Jerusalem on their way to Egypt, and the city would not fall until the time of Nebuchadnezzar and the Neo-Babylonians in 586 BC. Sennacherib himself returned to Nineveh where his own sons murdered him.

 

 

How do we study anything historically to determine who lived, how they lived, what they accomplished? With RECORDS - letters, birth certificates, family Bible records (yes, these can be used as a historical record). Everything we have on history, we know through records and archeology.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Basically, there is more evidence to support the Bible's version of events than any scientific theory, and yet people continuously mock Christians as believing in "a fairy tale" while they themselves choose to believe in nothing more than guesses by people with letters after their names. Guess what - I have letters after my name, too, and my letters are based on analytical thinking.

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 But the facts you listed don't speak to the existence of God.

flan

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 Maybe not directly, but if some version of the account given is true--then why would the rest not.  Or why would that one specific thing be the only thing not true?

Most Quaker Meetings are open to anyone.

And I don't "fight very hard to deny God." I have said many times before that I think the Judeo-Christian interpretation is too rigid.

flan

So, you are ABSOLUTELY certain the Bible is wrong and that Christ didn't exist. And, you are totally confident in some fuzzy vague notion of something without a shred of evidence whatsoever and will believe that scientists with a lifespan of 70 years are able to peer into eons ago with complete knowledge and understanding? Um, sure.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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So, you are ABSOLUTELY certain the Bible is wrong and that Christ didn't exist. And, you are totally confident in some fuzzy vague notion of something without a shred of evidence whatsoever and will believe that scientists with a lifespan of 70 years are able to peer into eons ago with complete knowledge and understanding? Um, sure.

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...and the bible has some folks living for over 900 years.

Suurre, they did! 

Did People Like Adam and Noah Really Live Over 900 Years of Age?

by Dr. Georgia Purdom and Dr. David Menton on May 27, 2010
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The Bible teaches quite plainly that the early patriarchs often lived to be nearly 1,000 years old and even had children when they were several hundred years old!

How Do We Know the Bible Is True? Volumes 1 & 2 Shop Now
“Methuseleh lived 900 years . . . but these stories you’re liable to read in the Bible, they ain’t necessarily so.”1

Along with American composer George Gershwin, many people find it difficult to believe that Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. Nevertheless, the Bible teaches quite plainly that the early patriarchs often lived to be nearly 1,000 years old and even had children when they were several hundred years old! Similar claims of long life spans are found in the secular literature of several ancient cultures (including the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Indians, and Chinese). But even a life span of nearly 1,000 years is sadly abbreviated when we consider that God initially created us to live forever.

According to the Bible, God created the first humans—Adam and Eve—without sin and with the ability to live forever. God gave the first human couple everything they needed for their eternal health and happiness in the Garden of Eden; but He warned them not to eat fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil or they would die, as indeed would all their descendants after them (Genesis 2:16–17). When Satan’s deception prompted Eve to disobey this command and then Adam willfully disobeyed, their minds and bodies profoundly changed (Genesis 3). Not only did they become subject to death, but their firstborn child (Cain) became the world’s first murderer. Truly, the wages of sin is death, physically and spiritually. It is sobering to think that the Bible would have been only a few pages long—from creation to the fall into sin—were it not for the undeserved love of God who both promised and sent the Messiah to save us from sin and death (Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 25:8; Psalm 49:14–15; 1 John 5:13).

For 1,500 years after creation, men lived such long lives that most were either contemporaries of the first man, Adam, or personally knew someone who was! The ten patriarchs (excluding Enoch) who preceded the Great Flood lived an average of 912 years. Lamech died the youngest at the age of 777, and Methuselah lived to be the oldest at 969. See table 1.

Table 1. Ages of the Patriarchs from Adam to Noah

Patriarch Age Bible Reference
1 Adam 930 Genesis 5:4
2 Seth 912 Genesis 5:8
3 Enosh 905 Genesis 5:11
4 Cainan 910 Genesis 5:14
5 Mahalalel 895 Genesis 5:17
6 Jared 962 Genesis 5:20
7 Enoch 365 (translated) Genesis 5:23
8 Methuselah 969 Genesis 5:27
9 Lamech 777 Genesis 5:31
10 Noah 950 Genesis 9:29
During the 1,000 years following the Flood, however, the Bible records a progressive decline in the life span of the patriarchs, from Noah who lived to be 950 years old until Abraham at 175 (see figure 1 and table 2). In fact, Moses was unusually old for his time (120 years) because, when he reflected on the brevity of life, he said: “The days of our lives are seventy years; and if by reason of strength they are eighty years, yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away” (Psalm 90:10).

Table 2. Ages of the Patriarchs after Noah to Abraham

Patriarch Age Bible Reference
11 Shem 600 Genesis 11:10–11
12 Arphaxad 438 Genesis 11:12–13
13 Shelah 433 Genesis 11:14–15
14 Eber 464 Genesis 11:16–17
15 Peleg 239 Genesis 11:18–19
16 Reu 239 Genesis 11:20–21
17 Serug 230 Genesis 11:22–23
18 Nahor 148 Genesis 11:24–25
19 Terah 205 Genesis 11:32
20 Abraham 175 Genesis 25:7
Extrabiblical evidence to support the long life spans of the people in Genesis is found in the Sumerian King List. This list mentions a flood and gives the length of the reigns of kings before and after a flood. There are many striking parallels between the Sumerian King List and Genesis, such as a flood event, numerical parallels between the pre-Flood biblical patriarchs and the antediluvial kings, and a substantial decrease in life span of people following the flood.2 One author on this subject concludes, “It is highly unlikely that the biblical account was derived from the Sumerian in view of the differences of the two accounts, and the obvious superiority of the Genesis record both in numerical precision, realism, completion, and moral and spiritual qualities.”2 It is more likely that the Sumerian King List was composed using Genesis for numerical information. Obviously, the Book of Genesis would only be used if the person writing the list believed it to be a true historical account containing accurate information.

Decline in Ages at Death
Today, man’s maximum life span is about 120 years,3 and our average life expectancy is still only 70–80 years—just as it was when the 90th Psalm was written 3,400 years ago! The precipitous plunge in life spans after the Flood suggests that something changed at the time of the Flood, or shortly thereafter, that was responsible for this decline. A line graph of this decline reveals an exponential curve (see figure 1). An exponential decay rate is often called a “natural” decay rate because it is so often observed in nature. For example, this is the decay curve we see when living organisms are exposed to lethal doses of toxic substances or radiations. Since it is unlikely that people living in pre-Flood times were familiar with exponential decay curves, it is thus unlikely that these dates were fabricated.

The fossil record reveals that prior to the Flood, most of the earth appears to have had a tropical type of environment. Following the Flood, there was clearly an environmental change resulting in an ice age that covered nearly 30 percent of the earth with ice (primarily in the northern latitudes). This, together with other changes following the Flood, could have adversely affected life spans.

Biological Causes of Aging
What exactly causes this process of aging in our body? Although the mechanism of aging (and its prevention) has long been an object of biomedical research, science still has no definitive answer to this question. Around the turn of the century, it was believed that aging didn’t directly involve the living cells of our body but rather was an extracellular phenomenon. It was believed that our normal living cells, if properly nourished, could grow and divide indefinitely outside our body. In 1961, this idea was refuted by Leonard Hayflick, who grew human cells outside the body in covered glass dishes containing the necessary nutrients. Hayflick discovered that cells cultured in this way normally died after about 50 cell divisions (Hayflick’s limit). This suggests that even the individual cells of our body are mortal, apart from any other bodily influence.

Genetic Determinants
Both aging and life span are processes that have genetic determinants that are overlapping and unique. Approximately 20–30 percent of factors affecting life span are thought to be heritable and thus genetic.4 Life span varies greatly among individuals, indicating that while aging plays a role, other factors are also involved.

Mutations and Genetic Bottlenecks
A mutation is any change in the sequence of DNA.5 All known mutations cause a loss of information. The rate at which all types of mutations occur per generation has been suggested to be greater than 1,000.6 We inherit mutations from our parents and also develop mutations of our own; subsequently, we pass a proportion of those on to our children. So it is conceivable in the many generations between Adam and Moses that a large number of mutations would have been present in any given individual.

Genetic bottlenecks (or population bottlenecks) occur when significant proportions of the population dies or proportions become isolated. Such a bottleneck occurred at the time of Noah’s flood when the human population was reduced to eight people (Genesis 6–9). Other smaller bottlenecks occurred following the Tower of Babel dispersion (Genesis 11). These events would have resulted in a major reduction of genetic variety.

For every gene there are two or more versions called alleles. This is analogous to the color red (gene) but different shades of red—light and dark (alleles). It is possible for “good” (unmutated) alleles to mask or hide “bad” (mutated) alleles. However, in a smaller population with less allelic variation, this becomes more difficult to accomplish, and thus mutated alleles have a greater effect.

Although Noah lived 950 years, his father, Lamech, lived only 777 years (granted we do not know if he died from old age). In addition, we do not know how long Noah’s wife lived, but Noah’s son Shem only lived 600 years. Considering that the longest recorded life span of someone born after the Flood was Eber at 464 years, it would appear that both mutations and genetic bottlenecks had severe effects on aging and life span.

Examples of Genetic Determinants Affecting Aging and Life Span
Although many genetic factors are suggested to affect aging and life span, these processes largely remain a mystery. Aging can be thought of as increased susceptibility to internal (i.e., agents that damage DNA) and external (i.e., disease-causing bacteria) stressors because of a decrease in the maintenance, repair, and defensive systems of the body.

For example, DNA repair systems are needed to protect the genome (all our DNA) from mutation. Xeroderma pigmentosum (XP) is a genetic disorder caused by a deficient (due to mutations) DNA repair system that normally repairs mutations caused by ultraviolet light. Individuals with this disease must severely limit their exposure to sunlight. Outer surfaces of the body such as skin and lips commonly show signs of premature aging.7 While this is an extreme example, any mutation that decreases the efficiency of our maintenance, repair, and defensive systems will likely lead to more rapid aging and decreased life span.

Telomeres, long, repetitive sequences of DNA at the ends of human chromosomes, are also thought to play an important role in aging. With each division of the cell, telomeres shorten due to the inability of the enzyme that copies the DNA to go all the way to the end of the chromosome.8 When telomeres have become too short, the cell stops dividing. This limitation plausibly serves as a quality control mechanism. Older cells will have accumulated many mutations in their DNA, and their continued division may lead to diseases like cancer. Most body cells cannot replicate indefinitely, leading to aging and eventually death. Thus, telomeres are important in determining the life span of cell types that directly affect aging.

Job Hunting
Genetic determinants of life span or longevity are difficult to pinpoint. Even if the genes are determined to be associated with people who live for many years, their actual role in increasing life span is unknown. Genetic studies of centarians (people who have lived more than 100 years) have produced several possible candidate longevity genes. The gene for apolipoprotein E (APOE), important in the regulation of cholesterol, has certain alleles that are more common among centarians.9 This is also true for certain alleles of insulinlike growth factor 1 (IGF1), important in cell proliferation and cell death, and superoxide dismutases (SOD), important in the breakdown of agents that damage DNA.9 Possibly the alleles associated with the centarians more closely reflect the genetic makeup of individuals with a long life span 6,000 years ago. Still, these alleles show the effects of the curse if the highest achievable age today is around 120 years!

Evolution and the Genetics of Aging and Life Span
Evolution has a difficult time explaining aging and life span. Aging is often viewed as a default. Genes are selected on the basis of how they benefit an individual in their young reproductive years, or the “ ‘warranty period’ [which] is the time required to fulfill the Darwinian purpose of life in terms of successful reproduction for the continuation of generations.”10 However, these same genes may be harmful overall, leading to aging and eventually death.

The problem for evolution is that longevity genes are selected for. To deal with this seeming dichotomy, some evolutionists have suggested that selection of longevity genes serves a purpose in that long-lived individuals can care for more of their descendants, known as the “grandmother effect.”11 The problem is that any theory that is so flexible it can account for everything isn’t a very good theory.

Genes associated with aging and life span have been affected as a result of the Fall either directly through mutations or indirectly through genetic bottlenecks. Modern medicine and anti-aging therapies may slow the process of aging and extend our life span, but they will never eradicate the ultimate end—death. Only Jesus Christ, who was victorious over death, can promise eternal life with Him to all who believe (Romans 6:23, 10:9).

Physiological Determinants
In one sense, most of the substance of our body really doesn’t continue to get older during our life: a great many of our body’s parts are constantly repairing and replacing themselves. The epidermal cells that cover the entire surface of our skin, for example, never get older than one month. New cells are continually produced (by cell division) deep in the epidermis, while the older ones continually slough off at the surface. Similarly, the cells lining our intestines completely replace themselves every 4 days; our red blood cells are entirely replaced about every 90 days; and our white blood cells are replaced about every week.

Even cells that never (or rarely) divide, such as cardiac muscle cells and brain cells, turn over molecule by molecule. It is believed that little or nothing in our body is more than about 10 years old. Thus, thanks to cell turnover and replacement, most of the organs in the body of a 90-year-old man are perhaps no older than those of a child. Indeed, you might say our body never actually grows older.

It’s rather like the story about “grandpa’s ax.” It seems a man had an old ax that hung over his fireplace and which he claimed had been passed down in his family for five generations. When asked how old the ax was, he said he wasn’t sure because although his great-great-great-great grandfather bought the ax about 300 years ago, he also understood that over the years, the ax had 6 new heads and 12 new handles. Our bodies are something like grandpa’s ax in that we too are constantly replacing “heads and handles,” and in a sense we never get older.

IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO AGE AND DIE IF THE BODY CONSTANTLY REPAIRS AND REPLACES ITS PARTS? At this point we might be inclined to ask, why did Methuselah die so young? How, indeed, is it even possible for anyone to age and die if the body constantly repairs and replaces its parts? Surely, if our automobile could do this, we would expect it to last forever. Part of the answer may be that certain key parts of our body fail to repair or replace themselves. Our critically important heart muscle cells, for example, fail to multiply, repair, or replace themselves after birth (although, like all muscle cells, they can increase in size). This is why any disruption in the blood supply to the heart muscle during a heart attack leads to permanent death of that part of the heart. The nerve cells of our brain—including those of our eye and inner ear—also fail to multiply or repair themselves. From the time of our birth to the end of our life, we lose thousands of nerve cells a minute from our central nervous system, and we can never replace them. As we get older, this causes a progressive loss of our ability to hear, see, smell, taste, and . . . ahh . . . something else, but I just can’t remember it!
The important point is that science offers no hope for eternal life, or even for the significant lengthening of life. It has been estimated that if complete cures, or preventions, were found for the three major killers (cancer, stroke, and coronary artery disease), the maximum life span of man would still not increase (although more people would approach this maximum). And such long-lived people would still become progressively weaker with age, as critical components of their body continue to deteriorate.

We may conclude that God’s Word, not science, has the complete solution to the problem of aging and death. The solution has been “revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Timothy 1:10).

answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/genealogy/did-adam-and-noah-really-live-over-900-years/

weltschmerz wrote:

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Sorry, you don't get to prove the bible by quoting the bible.
Nobody lived for over 900 years. It's ridiculous. Was that before or after they were riding around on unicorns?
Got any scientific proof that man is "devolving, not evolving?"
Off thing to say for someone who doesn't believe in evolution at all.

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 Talking to you is a big waste of time.  As 04 said, and you will deny God while bursting into flames!  

Nah, i like to hear my own brilliance.

don't believe in chance myself--the odds of all this happening by accident and with such incredible complexity and diversity over geologic periods of time is too incredible to be true--the odds against it are simply overwhelming--thence, this world and everything in it (including ourselves)was created by design, purposefully and by someone (or something) with a power and intelligence utterly beyond our comprehension--our discovery of the processesses of evolution, biology even physics represents literally a mote of the intelligence/power necessary to bring this all into being


in my humble opinion, those that deny God or his existence and work are simply afraid--children crying in the dark

burns07 wrote:

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don't believe in chance myself--the odds of all this happening by accident and with such incredible complexity and diversity over geologic periods of time is too incredible to be true--the odds against it are simply overwhelming--thence, this world and everything in it (including ourselves)was created by design, purposefully and by someone (or something) with a power and intelligence utterly beyond our comprehension--our discovery of the processesses of evolution, biology even physics represents literally a mote of the intelligence/power necessary to bring this all into being


in my humble opinion, those that deny God or his existence and work are simply afraid--children crying in the dark

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In MY humble opinion, those who believe in God are utterly terrified of the finality of death, and will believe anything and do anything if it promises a post-mortem paradise. 

Every single religion since the beginning of time was thanatocentric at its core.

"Believe this, do this and you too, can live forever!!"

Every single religion since the beginning of time was thanatocentric at its core.
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no they are not " death-centered " --love the psychobabble though--taoism, for one, comes to mind--centered in how one LIVES this life

weltschmerz wrote:

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burns07 wrote:

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don't believe in chance myself--the odds of all this happening by accident and with such incredible complexity and diversity over geologic periods of time is too incredible to be true--the odds against it are simply overwhelming--thence, this world and everything in it (including ourselves)was created by design, purposefully and by someone (or something) with a power and intelligence utterly beyond our comprehension--our discovery of the processesses of evolution, biology even physics represents literally a mote of the intelligence/power necessary to bring this all into being


in my humble opinion, those that deny God or his existence and work are simply afraid--children crying in the dark

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In MY humble opinion, those who believe in God are utterly terrified of the finality of death, and will believe anything and do anything if it promises a post-mortem paradise. 

Every single religion since the beginning of time was thanatocentric at its core.

"Believe this, do this and you too, can live forever!!"

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 AMEN!

flan