TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

Our mentally disabled daughter is pregnant. Should we take her for an abortion?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, first i would want to know how and by whom she got pregnant by. If she is mentally disabled, I am assuming she isn't having a lot of unsupervised time so that is a big question.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, first i would want to know how and by whom she got pregnant by. If she is mentally disabled, I am assuming she isn't having a lot of unsupervised time so that is a big question.

It says there is a police investigation, so I think they are on it.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

IF the mentally handicapped daughter WANTS to have her baby, she has just as much right to HAVE her baby as any other woman.

Good gosh, quit playing God. She HAS a voice, listen to her!

Yes, a court appointed guardian would be appointed by a judge in this case. She is not 19, the age at which legal guardianship is usually given to a parent/parents in most states. Until then, she is still just your child and the laws apply to her the same as any other 18 year old.

Our handicapped DD is our legal ward and we would still need a court to step in with a case like this. If she says no, that's it. Done.

If they force her to have an abortion, they will regret that decision for the rest of their lives, because she will not forget.

Granted, I am assuming the DD functions at or above our DD's level, which would be considered moderately handicapped instead of profoundly handicapped. Profoundly handicapped are incapable of giving consent. Since this 18 year old is talking about her baby, I'd say she's moderate or mildly handicapped.

Just because she is handicapped does not mean she has no rights.

I better quit now..

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

What a terrible situation for everyone involved. It does sound like the DD wants her baby.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Um, if she wants to keep her baby, let her.
I can't believe someone is asking if they should force their daughter to get an abortion if she doesn't want one. No. Simple answer.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No. That baby is part of her. If they kill it. They may very well cause a tail spin for her that will destroy them all.

And she obviously loves the baby and wants the baby.

Isn't that the rally cry for those who support abortion? If it's wanted, it's a baby.

cadiver · Senior Member

I do not know why she is contemplating the abortion. She gives no reason why she is thinking of it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I question what she actually knows about the REALITY of raising a baby. It's not a doll to play with, then put away when you get bored.

flan

Riding · Guru

perhaps, but the parents said

"We have the resources and family support to care for this child if it were it born".....

so it appears there would be help and support for her and the baby

Not their place to make her do it

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Is there a significant chance the child will also be mentally disabled since the mother is? I don't know the statistics on this. That may also be a factor in the parents thinking.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

My main concern is, if she is severely disabled, she may not have a good understanding of childbirth, and the pain that is labor.
But, that doesn't sound like what they are concerned about, and it doesn't sound like the case anyways, as she seems to understand that pregnancy =baby.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

There are ways to ease pain. And they may opt for a C-section.

My questions are, why did the parents not get her tube tied? When did she get pregnant, what were the circumstances?

This girl is anticipating a baby.

And disabled people can have and raise families.

We don't know the extent of the disability.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

lilyofcourse wrote:
There are ways to ease pain. And they may opt for a C-section.

My questions are, why did the parents not get her tube tied? When did she get pregnant, what were the circumstances?

This girl is anticipating a baby.

And disabled people can have and raise families.

We don't know the extent of the disability.

The bolded, do you believe the girl has no reproductive rights?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

just Czech wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
There are ways to ease pain. And they may opt for a C-section.

My questions are, why did the parents not get her tube tied? When did she get pregnant, what were the circumstances?

This girl is anticipating a baby.

And disabled people can have and raise families.

We don't know the extent of the disability.

The bolded, do you believe the girl has no reproductive rights?

That's not the case.

But they said it may be the only chance at grandchildren.

And the parents are considering abortion.

So, if they were truly worried about the daughter having children, why not get the tube tied?

They wouldn't be considering killing their grandchild now if they had.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

just Czech wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
There are ways to ease pain. And they may opt for a C-section.

My questions are, why did the parents not get her tube tied? When did she get pregnant, what were the circumstances?

This girl is anticipating a baby.

And disabled people can have and raise families.

We don't know the extent of the disability.

The bolded, do you believe the girl has no reproductive rights?

Generally speaking you can't do that anymore with out a court order and its very hard to get.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

lilyofcourse wrote:
just Czech wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
There are ways to ease pain. And they may opt for a C-section.

My questions are, why did the parents not get her tube tied? When did she get pregnant, what were the circumstances?

This girl is anticipating a baby.

And disabled people can have and raise families.

We don't know the extent of the disability.

The bolded, do you believe the girl has no reproductive rights?
That's not the case.
But they said it may be the only chance at grandchildren.
And the parents are considering abortion.
So, if they were truly worried about the daughter having children, why not get the tube tied?
They wouldn't be considering killing their grandchild now if they had.

Really? Just get her tubes tied before she knows what they are doing to her? So, she has no voice, ever?

You have got to be kidding.

It does not say she is profoundly mentally handicapped. For all we know, she may have an IQ of 70. She may well be able to handle having a baby.

In our state, an IQ below 75 is considered handicapped. Yet, I know of several woman who have raised children just fine with an IQ of 70.

You can not indiscriminately get your DD's tubes tied just because she has a low IQ. At least not in our state.

I am almost under the impression that you don't believe the mentally handicapped should have any rights.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Czech, I have already stated in my first few posts that they should not abort the baby.

I've said the young lady is wanting this baby.

I am, in no way, saying she shouldn't have this baby.

I even said that disabled people have and raise families all the time.

All I am asking is, if they are so concerned that their daughter will not have the capacity to understand what is happening and what it will mean, why were they not more proactive in preventing a pregnancy in the first place?

Obviously this soon to be mom has some level of understanding.

It's just questions.

Nothinges more.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And I don't know where you got the idea that I think mentally handicapped people should have no rights.

That is patently untrue.

huskerbb · Guru

Sorry, but if the daughter is under her parents guardianship--she really has no say.

Let's say the daughter wants it, but the parents don't. Who then is going to raise the child, especially if it, also, has a disability?

Now, I'm not in favor of abortion--but the same things would be considered in giving it up for adoption, as well.

chef · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
Is there a significant chance the child will also be mentally disabled since the mother is? I don't know the statistics on this. That may also be a factor in the parents thinking.

I don't know the statistics either but both of my parents are mentally disabled and I am not.

chef · Guru

If the daughter is capable of understanding the changes her body will go through during pregnancy/delivery, she should be allowed to have her baby. She already said she wants the baby so she does have some understanding of what's going on.

This letter reminds me of a very offensive question I came across on OkCupid: Should mentally handicapped people be allowed to reproduce? I went on a rant in answer to that question. Both of my parents are mentally disabled. I flat out said that ANYONE who said no to that question should NOT message me.

huskerbb · Guru

chef wrote:
If the daughter is capable of understanding the changes her body will go through during pregnancy/delivery, she should be allowed to have her baby. She already said she wants the baby so she does have some understanding of what's going on.

This letter reminds me of a very offensive question I came across on OkCupid: Should mentally handicapped people be allowed to reproduce? I went on a rant in answer to that question. Both of my parents are mentally disabled. I flat out said that ANYONE who said no to that question should NOT message me.

No. That is by FAR not the only criteria.

Who is going to raise the child? Is she capable? Are her parents willing to help? If not, who is going to raise it?

She apparently is not fit enough at this point to care for herself on her own.

chef · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
chef wrote:
If the daughter is capable of understanding the changes her body will go through during pregnancy/delivery, she should be allowed to have her baby. She already said she wants the baby so she does have some understanding of what's going on.

This letter reminds me of a very offensive question I came across on OkCupid: Should mentally handicapped people be allowed to reproduce? I went on a rant in answer to that question. Both of my parents are mentally disabled. I flat out said that ANYONE who said no to that question should NOT message me.
No. That is by FAR not the only criteria.

Who is going to raise the child? Is she capable? Are her parents willing to help? If not, who is going to raise it?

She apparently is not fit enough at this point to care for herself on her own.

Our opinions differ. And that's ok.

huskerbb · Guru

That doesn't answer the questions. Who is going to raise the child if she is unable and the parents unwilling?

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

huskerbb wrote:
That doesn't answer the questions. Who is going to raise the child if she is unable and the parents unwilling?

But, from the original letter, it sounds like her Dad, the Grandfather, is willing to help raise the child.

He doesn't really say where the Mom/Grandma is, on all of this.

huskerbb · Guru

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
That doesn't answer the questions. Who is going to raise the child if she is unable and the parents unwilling?
But, from the original letter, it sounds like her Dad, the Grandfather, is willing to help raise the child.
He doesn't really say where the Mom/Grandma is, on all of this.

No, it really doesn't say that. It says they are taking her for an abortion--which is pretty much the opposite of that.

It does say they probably COULD do so--not that they are willing to.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.

If they are capable. Some are not.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.
If they are capable. Some are not.

Then I guess it isn't any different then anyone else. There are lots of "normal" people who are incapable of raising a child.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.
If they are capable. Some are not.
Then I guess it isn't any different then anyone else. There are lots of "normal" people who are incapable of raising a child.

It's very different.

Sure, there are crappy parents out there--but that is a bit different than being truly incapable. Even the ones that are, we don't know that beforehand.

In cases of disabilities, they vary widely. Some of them are not capable of raising a child. That's a fact.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.
If they are capable. Some are not.
Then I guess it isn't any different then anyone else. There are lots of "normal" people who are incapable of raising a child.
It's very different.
Sure, there are crappy parents out there--but that is a bit different than being truly incapable. Even the ones that are, we don't know that beforehand.
In cases of disabilities, they vary widely. Some of them are not capable of raising a child. That's a fact.

The profoundly mentally handicapped would not be capable, on that I agree. But where is the line?

And, who determines the line?

I feel my DD would not be able to raise a child by herself, but I don't know that she couldn't if she had a partner/spouse.

So, again, where is the line?

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
There are programs in place to help the mentally handicapped raise their child/children. Well, in some states there are programs. I can't speak for other states, but ours does have a program.
If they are capable. Some are not.
Then I guess it isn't any different then anyone else. There are lots of "normal" people who are incapable of raising a child.
It's very different.
Sure, there are crappy parents out there--but that is a bit different than being truly incapable. Even the ones that are, we don't know that beforehand.
In cases of disabilities, they vary widely. Some of them are not capable of raising a child. That's a fact.
The profoundly mentally handicapped would not be capable, on that I agree. But where is the line?
And, who determines the line?
I feel my DD would not be able to raise a child by herself, but I don't know that she couldn't if she had a partner/spouse.
So, again, where is the line?

I don't know who determines that. I suppose they have people that make a profession out of evaluating that sort of thing.

huskerbb · Guru

I would think the line would be that they would at least have to be able to care of basic needs. Be able to cook to provide food. Be able to change diapers and do laundry. Be able to tell when the child is hungry. Be able to physically handle the child properly without harming them, etc...

At least provide for basic needs. I wouldn't think that would be impossible to determine.

Again, some can--but some can't.

huskerbb · Guru

I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
I would think the line would be that they would at least have to be able to care of basic needs. Be able to cook to provide food. Be able to change diapers and do laundry. Be able to tell when the child is hungry. Be able to physically handle the child properly without harming them, etc...

At least provide for basic needs. I wouldn't think that would be impossible to determine.

Again, some can--but some can't.

By your criteria, our DD would be able to have and raise a child. She can do all those things. Maybe not nearly as competently as you or I, but she can do all those things.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.

They also may simply be over protective.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I would think the line would be that they would at least have to be able to care of basic needs. Be able to cook to provide food. Be able to change diapers and do laundry. Be able to tell when the child is hungry. Be able to physically handle the child properly without harming them, etc...

At least provide for basic needs. I wouldn't think that would be impossible to determine.

Again, some can--but some can't.
By your criteria, our DD would be able to have and raise a child. She can do all those things. Maybe not nearly as competently as you or I, but she can do all those things.

I never commented on your daughter one way or another. She may very well be able to. I never said that NONE of the people with such disabilities couldn't care for a child. I said SOME of them could not--and that is a legitimate question to ask.

chef · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
That doesn't answer the questions. Who is going to raise the child if she is unable and the parents unwilling?

I don't know. The only information I have is the same as what you have - the letter in the OP.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.
They also may simply be over protective.

Maybe, maybe not--but it's going to be a huge burden on them.

Even if their daughter can care for a child's basic needs--she would undoubtedly still live with them, depend on them for financial support for both her and the child, and likely need a fair amount of help.

When you want/need other people--and in this case will have to rely on them a LOT--then it's not 100% up to you, anymore. They get a say.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.
They also may simply be over protective.
Maybe, maybe not--but it's going to be a huge burden on them.
Even if their daughter can care for a child's basic needs--she would undoubtedly still live with them, depend on them for financial support for both her and the child, and likely need a fair amount of help.
When you want/need other people--and in this case will have to rely on them a LOT--then it's not 100% up to you, anymore. They get a say.

IMHO, they don't get to force her to have an abortion if she doesn't want one.

huskerbb · Guru

chef wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
That doesn't answer the questions. Who is going to raise the child if she is unable and the parents unwilling?
I don't know. The only information I have is the same as what you have - the letter in the OP.

The question would apply to ANY such person who might not be able to care for a child.

It needs answered before they do anything.

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.
They also may simply be over protective.
Maybe, maybe not--but it's going to be a huge burden on them.
Even if their daughter can care for a child's basic needs--she would undoubtedly still live with them, depend on them for financial support for both her and the child, and likely need a fair amount of help.
When you want/need other people--and in this case will have to rely on them a LOT--then it's not 100% up to you, anymore. They get a say.
IMHO, they don't get to force her to have an abortion if she doesn't want one.

I'm not for abortion--but--I don't think they can or should be forced to raise a child they don't want, either. Adoption would certainly be an option.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Abortion is abortion.

I will never understand why BC is so hard for people.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Abortion is abortion.

I will never understand why BC is so hard for people.

Um, she was sexually assaulted.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I think in this case, though, the parents would be able to determine to a great degree what their daughter is capable of.
They also may simply be over protective.
Maybe, maybe not--but it's going to be a huge burden on them.
Even if their daughter can care for a child's basic needs--she would undoubtedly still live with them, depend on them for financial support for both her and the child, and likely need a fair amount of help.
When you want/need other people--and in this case will have to rely on them a LOT--then it's not 100% up to you, anymore. They get a say.
IMHO, they don't get to force her to have an abortion if she doesn't want one.
I'm not for abortion--but--I don't think they can or should be forced to raise a child they don't want, either. Adoption would certainly be an option.

I agree. Adoption would be an option. Much better then the abortion, IMHO.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Abortion is abortion.

I will never understand why BC is so hard for people.
Um, she was sexually assaulted.

Still.

18.

Mom and dad are talking about abortion.

We're they going to keep her locked away for ever? Never allow her to date?

BC seems reasonable to me.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And it says there is an investigation underway, that doesn't automatically mean assault or that she wasn't a willing partcipant.

It could have been a stranger, a boyfriend or anyone.

That's the thing about these letters, pertinent information is often left out.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Mom and dad should suck it up, and keep the baby, honestly. I don't doubt it will be hard. But, to have her go through pregnancy and childbirth only to take her baby away?
She would probably forgive an abortion sooner.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Mom and dad should suck it up, and keep the baby, honestly. I don't doubt it will be hard. But, to have her go through pregnancy and childbirth only to take her baby away?
She would probably forgive an abortion sooner.

If it's their only chance for a grandchild--I would think they would at least consider that.

It's a big undertaking, though. We don't know their ages or their fitness level. Not everyone wants to be raising kids when they are in their 60's.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

To Have or Have Not

Our mentally disabled daughter is pregnant. Should we take her for an abortion?