TOTALLY GEEKED!

WYSIWYG · Guru

RE: Our mentally disabled daughter is pregnant. Should we take her for an abortion?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

A person who is not capable of living independently and caring for their own needs should not be charged with raising a child. If the daughter is not capable of living alone (not in a group home or with her parents, but truly independently) then she should not raise a child in my opinion. How the parents go about ensuring that does not take place is up to them. I would not presume to say what I would do in that situation. I also wonder what arrangements they have made for their daughter's care after they have passed? Would those arrangements accommodate a child?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
A person who is not capable of living independently and caring for their own needs should not be charged with raising a child. If the daughter is not capable of living alone (not in a group home or with her parents, but truly independently) then she should not raise a child in my opinion. How the parents go about ensuring that does not take place is up to them. I would not presume to say what I would do in that situation. I also wonder what arrangements they have made for their daughter's care after they have passed? Would those arrangements accommodate a child?

Very good points.

How old are the parents? Are they in good health?

Some woman have smooth pregnancies, but certainly not all. Can the daughter deal with the pains & restrictions during gestation?

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

All I can say is if this was my grandchild I'd be more than willing to help her raise the baby. Even if I had to raise the baby myself there is no way abortion would be an option. It might be hard but it would be my grandchild so very much worth it. As far as being taken care of if something happened to me there's no guarantee a young parent won't die as well so I would hope my family would step up and I'm sure they would. EVERY child deserves a chance at life and at living their life in IMHO.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yeah, this is one of those "grey" areas for a lot of people.

But if you are against killing a baby in the womb, you are against it in this situation too.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I wish I knew how old the people in the OP are. I don't think they should have the girl get an abortion, she understands she is pregnant and is excited about the baby, and they seem pretty on the fence about it and a little excited at the thought of a grandchild. If they are 40-50, they could easily help raise this child to adulthood. If they are 60, that's a little different. BUT, if there is no one else, and this baby could reach adulthood before they are elderly, that is someone who could potentially help take care of their daughter when they are gone later.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, i don't think it is unreasonable to put an handicapped, low IQ adult on birth control or to have a tubal if they really cannot honestly raise and care for a child in the event of a pregnancy.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, i don't think it is unreasonable to put an handicapped, low IQ adult on birth control or to have a tubal if they really cannot honestly raise and care for a child in the event of a pregnancy.

I don't either. But it's a little late in this particular instance. Hopefully, they will prevent another one, but "shoulda, coulda -s" do nothing to help the situation NOW.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, i don't think it is unreasonable to put an handicapped, low IQ adult on birth control or to have a tubal if they really cannot honestly raise and care for a child in the event of a pregnancy.
I don't either. But it's a little late in this particular instance. Hopefully, they will prevent another one, but "shoulda, coulda -s" do nothing to help the situation NOW.

Well, yeah, right now it is late since she's pregnant. But, she's 18. So, after they resolve this, then they can address it going forward. Either put her on birth control or have her tubes tied if she is truly not capable of being a parent.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I don't understand what the argument is about the pain of child birth, that is tough on any mother and probably more on someone mentally disabled. But having an abortion is not much better. If you have ever had to have a D&C then you know what I am talking about. Since the parents have the financial resources, they should raise the child. They can always hire a nanny that can help.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I didn't see "assault" in the posted letter.

I don't know what call I would make on this. The letter doesn't mention how their daughter is disabled or if it's genetic and the odds of it being passed on. It also doesn't mention their faith.

I don't know if praying for God to take the baby before birth would be an option, but that would be where I am at in this issue. Raise the child, give it to the state for adoption, or hope for miscarriage (without doing things to make that more likely, of course).

The word wasn't there, but the implication was.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
I don't understand what the argument is about the pain of child birth, that is tough on any mother and probably more on someone mentally disabled. But having an abortion is not much better. If you have ever had to have a D&C then you know what I am talking about. Since the parents have the financial resources, they should raise the child. They can always hire a nanny that can help.

How can someone turn their back on their own grandchild? Sorry but children don't always arrive on this planet under ideal circumstances.

Tinydancer · Guru

I know I couldn't.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

It is a difficult situation to be sure. But, if she wants her baby, they really should try and honor that.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
I don't understand what the argument is about the pain of child birth, that is tough on any mother and probably more on someone mentally disabled. But having an abortion is not much better. If you have ever had to have a D&C then you know what I am talking about. Since the parents have the financial resources, they should raise the child. They can always hire a nanny that can help.
How can someone turn their back on their own grandchild? Sorry but children don't always arrive on this planet under ideal circumstances.

I wouldn't--but I'm not them. They've spent years raising a disabled daughter. They may be old, tired.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, she's 18, so they aren't that OLD. And, they said this is their "chance" to become grandparents which at least indicates that they would like be grandparents. But, this is the situation. And, yes, they may be tired. But, then i would deal with this situation, raise the child and their DD would need to have her tubes tied.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, she's 18, so they aren't that OLD. And, they said this is their "chance" to become grandparents which at least indicates that they would like be grandparents. But, this is the situation. And, yes, they may be tired. But, then i would deal with this situation, raise the child and their DD would need to have her tubes tied.

We don't know that. Sure, they could be in their late 30's or early 40's, or they could be in their 60's.

There is a higher incidence of birth defects in older women who have children, so it's not completely implausible that this is a late in life child.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I have a serious problem with them just taking daughter to get tubes tied.
I generally have a problem with people who cannot understand or consent getting elective surgery.
But, I guess it depends on how disabled she is.
But there are much less invasive birth control methods, and I agree it is time to get her on something, even though if there is a police investigation, it certainly seems as if there is an abusive situation present.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I have a serious problem with them just taking daughter to get tubes tied.
I generally have a problem with people who cannot understand or consent getting elective surgery.
But, I guess it depends on how disabled she is.
But there are much less invasive birth control methods, and I agree it is time to get her on something, even though if there is a police investigation, it certainly seems as if there is an abusive situation present.

She got pregnant and doesn't seem to know how or by whom. So, i would say that a tubal is in order.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Since she sounds incapable of taking care of a child - even though she seems to want it - I would have no problem with her legal guardian choosing her birth control method. Even if I was pro-choice, I would think forcing an abortion when she knows she's having a baby would be very bad for her mental state and very, very wrong.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I have a serious problem with them just taking daughter to get tubes tied.
I generally have a problem with people who cannot understand or consent getting elective surgery.
But, I guess it depends on how disabled she is.
But there are much less invasive birth control methods, and I agree it is time to get her on something, even though if there is a police investigation, it certainly seems as if there is an abusive situation present.

So no child should ever have surgery?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I have a serious problem with them just taking daughter to get tubes tied.
I generally have a problem with people who cannot understand or consent getting elective surgery.
But, I guess it depends on how disabled she is.
But there are much less invasive birth control methods, and I agree it is time to get her on something, even though if there is a police investigation, it certainly seems as if there is an abusive situation present.
So no child should ever have surgery?

ELECTIVE surgery, husker. Try reading.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, that the parent or guardian ELECTS on their behalf.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I have a serious problem with them just taking daughter to get tubes tied.
I generally have a problem with people who cannot understand or consent getting elective surgery.
But, I guess it depends on how disabled she is.
But there are much less invasive birth control methods, and I agree it is time to get her on something, even though if there is a police investigation, it certainly seems as if there is an abusive situation present.
So no child should ever have surgery?
ELECTIVE surgery, husker. Try reading.

Elective surgery, then. Surgery to repair a cleft palate is elective. Certain surgeries and procedures to repair malformed bones are elective.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Except, there are plenty of other modes of birth control, that do not require surgery.
A cleft palate can impact a child's ability to eat, and cause all sorts of sinus troubles. And bone malformations, seriously? You would compare that to birth control?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I don't understand your point. Yes, getting a tubal is ELECTIVE surgery. So what?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't understand your point. Yes, getting a tubal is ELECTIVE surgery. So what?

So, if daughter doesn't want her ability to have kids permanently taken away, she should not. It is NO better than an abortion.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't understand your point. Yes, getting a tubal is ELECTIVE surgery. So what?
So, if daughter doesn't want her ability to have kids permanently taken away, she should not. It is NO better than an abortion.

What? That makes NO SENSE. An abortion is killing a child. A tubal is not. Wow. confuse

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.

So people with low iq have zero rights, medically? Wow.

And a tubal permanently removes her ability to have kids. I would rather be forced into an abortion than sterilization.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.
So people with low iq have zero rights, medically? Wow.
And a tubal permanently removes her ability to have kids. I would rather be forced into an abortion than sterilization.

If you cannot care for the child you are bringing into this world, then yes, then that "right" needs to be removed. So, you won't do a tubal but would KILL your own grandchild. I guess your grandchild's IQ is irrelevant to you.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Saying an abortion is the same as a tubal has to be one of the most bizarre things i have read online.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

What are you even talking about??
You want to take away her rights. You want to take away her baby.
I think they should use a less invasive, and less permanent form of birth control, and keep the baby, since the already said they can.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.
So people with low iq have zero rights, medically? Wow.
And a tubal permanently removes her ability to have kids. I would rather be forced into an abortion than sterilization.

So keep the ability to get pregnant just so the baby can be killed?

Do you have ANY idea how backwards you thinking is?

Wow. Just wow.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

lilyofcourse wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.
So people with low iq have zero rights, medically? Wow.
And a tubal permanently removes her ability to have kids. I would rather be forced into an abortion than sterilization.
So keep the ability to get pregnant just so the baby can be killed?
Do you have ANY idea how backwards you thinking is?
Wow. Just wow.

What nonsense are you spewing? Where have I ever said that she should get an abotion, or not be on birth control?

You have a serious reading problem.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Sorry, but if someone of low IQ is going to be sexually active and cannot handle the consequenes of that , then sterilization makes sense.
So people with low iq have zero rights, medically? Wow.
And a tubal permanently removes her ability to have kids. I would rather be forced into an abortion than sterilization.

Um, yeah. If they are under legal guardianship, that's how it works. Someone else makes those decisions.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I cannot believe someone would take their child and STERILIZE her against their will. Jesus Christ.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

A tubal is out patient surgery. Takes maybe a day or two to get over. It's a one time thing and it is done.

Abortion is out patient surgery. It can takeep a day or 3 to get over. It would be repeated each time the girl got pregnant. It can have serious physical and psychological side effects.

If it is a choice between preventing and killing. I don't know a single person with a concious choosing the latter.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I cannot believe someone would take their child and STERILIZE her against their will. Jesus Christ.

That is one of the dumbest statements you've ever posted. And there's fierce competition.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I cannot believe someone would take their child and STERILIZE her against their will. Jesus Christ.

I cannot believe someone would their child and KILL their baby against her will.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

I see lots of channeling of Mengele..

huskerbb · Guru

No one is talking about sterilizing children. This is not a child. They are an adult who likely is not capable of raising a child without a great deal of help.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

huskerbb wrote:
No one is talking about sterilizing children. This is not a child. They are an adult who likely is not capable of raising a child without a great deal of help.

Read the posts. Yes, someone did mention that she should have been sterilized a long time ago. Good gosh.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

lilyofcourse wrote:
A tubal is out patient surgery. Takes maybe a day or two to get over. It's a one time thing and it is done.

Abortion is out patient surgery. It can takeep a day or 3 to get over. It would be repeated each time the girl got pregnant. It can have serious physical and psychological side effects.

If it is a choice between preventing and killing. I don't know a single person with a concious choosing the latter.

It is getting rid of one child she wants, or getting rid of her ability to ever have children ever, via syrgery.

BOTH ARE WRONG.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

huskerbb wrote:
No one is talking about sterilizing children. This is not a child. They are an adult who likely is not capable of raising a child without a great deal of help.

So that makes it perfectly okay to sterilize her against her will?

Good God. This is sick.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
No one is talking about sterilizing children. This is not a child. They are an adult who likely is not capable of raising a child without a great deal of help.
So that makes it perfectly okay to sterilize her against her will?
Good God. This is sick.

Yes. If you can't understand the ramifications of your decisions, you don't get to make them.

if she was not assaulted, she certainly couldn't appreciate the ramifications of having sex.

Should she have 5 kids that someone else has to raise?

huskerbb · Guru

just Czech wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
No one is talking about sterilizing children. This is not a child. They are an adult who likely is not capable of raising a child without a great deal of help.
Read the posts. Yes, someone did mention that she should have been sterilized a long time ago. Good gosh.

that certainly would have prevented this mess.

TrudyML · Guru

Put a Mirena in there.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
A tubal is out patient surgery. Takes maybe a day or two to get over. It's a one time thing and it is done.

Abortion is out patient surgery. It can takeep a day or 3 to get over. It would be repeated each time the girl got pregnant. It can have serious physical and psychological side effects.

If it is a choice between preventing and killing. I don't know a single person with a concious choosing the latter.
It is getting rid of one child she wants, or getting rid of her ability to ever have children ever, via syrgery.
BOTH ARE WRONG.

Killing a baby she wants.

This is an 18 year old.

And because she is unable to fully care for this baby on her own, just kill the baby.

What if she gets pregnant again? Just kill it too?

And a third time, and a forth time.

How many babies should be killed?

But hey. It may be against her will but it's just a baby.

Right?

So what if it could have all been prevented?

I mean, shoot, she could just have an abortion every 2 months. Cause that won't take a toll at all.

Tinydancer · Guru

Dona keeps saying she thinks an abortion is wrong in this case too. There are other forms of birth control that don't involve surgery so what's wrong with using those?