TOTALLY GEEKED!

weltschmerz · Guru

RE: Gun control ideas!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
More kids will DIE if you clamp down on guns. Do you not understand that?
Really? You know that for a FACT?
flan
Yeah. Chicago. Schools. Gun free zones. It couldnt be any more clear.

Having a teacher carry a LEGAL weapon is NOT clamping down.

I swear, this thread makes me crazy.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
More kids will DIE if you clamp down on guns. Do you not understand that?
Really? You know that for a FACT?
flan
Yeah. Chicago. Schools. Gun free zones. It couldnt be any more clear.
Having a teacher carry a LEGAL weapon is NOT clamping down.
I swear, this thread makes me crazy.
flan

The teacher is not intending to commit a crime with it.

The point has been perfectly made, by Weltz of all people. What is the point of a gun free zone if the CRIMINALS will ignore the law, anyway?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Dona, you have forgotten the very reason why we want our gun rights; Government Tyranny. If we have to give the government our names when buying ammo, guns, any gun paraphernalia then they have our names as someone to target when the Government is tyrannic. They get closer to that mark everyday.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, beating a dead horse.

I do think those that are on disability for a mental disorder, those that have violence in their past, and anyone who has been diagnosed with a mental disorder should not be able to buy guns or ammo. It's a conundrum, I know.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
But if you limit ammo, the effectiveness of having a gun is reduced. And if you are not going to limit ammo, what is the point of keeping track of it?
What and double what?
I have said specifically I am NOT in favor of limiting OR tracking it.
I am talking about a background check being required to BUY it.

I get it, Dona. But the crux of that is that you are putting the onus on people who have done NOTHING wrong. You going to give them free background checks to get these licenses?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Dona, you have forgotten the very reason why we want our gun rights; Government Tyranny. If we have to give the government our names when buying ammo, guns, any gun paraphernalia then they have our names as someone to target when the Government is tyrannic. They get closer to that mark everyday.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, beating a dead horse.

I do think those that are on disability for a mental disorder, those that have violence in their past, and anyone who has been diagnosed with a mental disorder should not be able to buy guns or ammo. It's a conundrum, I know.

If you walk into a store to buy a gun, you get a background check done, and the government knows about it.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
But if you limit ammo, the effectiveness of having a gun is reduced. And if you are not going to limit ammo, what is the point of keeping track of it?
What and double what?
I have said specifically I am NOT in favor of limiting OR tracking it.
I am talking about a background check being required to BUY it.
I get it, Dona. But the crux of that is that you are putting the onus on people who have done NOTHING wrong. You going to give them free background checks to get these licenses?

You already need a background check to buy a gun in the store. Hell, you need a background check just to get hired anywhere around here. The freaking HUMANE SOCIETY ran a background check in me when I applied there. I have had five run on me, and never had to pay for one. And, since you already need one if you buy a gun from a vendor, why is it such a big deal?

FNW · Guru

I had to sign my life away to buy a friggin hamster.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

The onus is ALWAYS on people who have done nothing wrong. You know how much paperwork I have to do to magically prove I don't use antibiotics? Because some idiot people got caught, and lost their certificate, I have to try and prove a negative, whicheck is mathematically impossible. Because some idiots ran water into their tank to bulk up their check, I have to PAY to get my milk tested for water, every. Single. Day.
The list goes on and on and on and on.
Don't know if you have noticed but, life had never been fair, and criminals make it considerably less so.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Dona, you have forgotten the very reason why we want our gun rights; Government Tyranny. If we have to give the government our names when buying ammo, guns, any gun paraphernalia then they have our names as someone to target when the Government is tyrannic. They get closer to that mark everyday.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, beating a dead horse.

I do think those that are on disability for a mental disorder, those that have violence in their past, and anyone who has been diagnosed with a mental disorder should not be able to buy guns or ammo. It's a conundrum, I know.
If you walk into a store to buy a gun, you get a background check done, and the government knows about it.

Maybe in Vermont...

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I am sure it is that way in NH as well. Had a friend who was always buying guns for a friend of his because he wouldn't pass a background check.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

There are a ton of guns. That's not the answer.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
No such thing as a gun-free zone, unless you cordon the entire area off and have border guards checking everything that goes in and out.
How can a city be a gun-free zone if any dick with a trunkful of weapons can drive right in?

Well if the Potus will let anyone cross the border then why should my gun rights be limited? Yet he had no problem pumping weapons into Mexico with fast and furious so spare me.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
No such thing as a gun-free zone, unless you cordon the entire area off and have border guards checking everything that goes in and out.
How can a city be a gun-free zone if any dick with a trunkful of weapons can drive right in?
Well if the Potus will let anyone cross the border then why should my gun rights be limited? Yet he had no problem pumping weapons into Mexico with fast and furious so spare me.

POTUS sent thousands of high powered guns to Mexico early in his first term. I don't hear Dona griping about that! Actually, I only point out Dona, because she started this thread. But to all you O supporters where is your rage at what he did? And to cover it up in the media he had Whitey Bulger arrested. A notorious Boston Thug hiding for 16 years is CA. Long story, they knew where the thug was all along and used him to cover up the Fast and Furious.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan

How about - enforce the laws we have? Stop ignoring mental illness until the mentally ill hurt someone. Give parents resources for their problem children.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I'm tired of the government screaming about more laws in general when they ignore the ones they don't want to enforce and us citizens pay for it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
How about - enforce the laws we have? Stop ignoring mental illness until the mentally ill hurt someone. Give parents resources for their problem children.

burns only referred to guns & ammo in his post.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Seriously, though. A government should be REQUIRED to enforce our laws. And if they don't, a moratorium should be imposed on them making new ones.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
How about - enforce the laws we have? Stop ignoring mental illness until the mentally ill hurt someone. Give parents resources for their problem children.
burns only referred to guns & ammo in his post.
flan

You said "another".

chef · Guru

The real problem is that we've become so PC that it's "wrong" to profile people. Take San Bernardino. There was a neighbor of the terrorists who saw suspicious activity but didn't call it in because he didn't want to be labelled racist. That crap needs to stop. If it walks like duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and needs to named as such then dealt with appropriately.

Also, laws will not fix the dearth of morality in this country. Mass shootings wouldn't happen if people cared one whit about their fellow man. But, the shooter doesn't care who he/she harms.

Another thing - criminals do not care about laws. There will always be a black market. There will always be way of illegally obtaining guns and ammo.

I like your ideas, Dona. I just don't know how to get guns away from criminals and that's what needs to be done.

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan

Burns said no such thing, Flan. Try reading.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I've only read page one so far, so forgive me if it's already been mentioned, but how about DNA tagging of the bullets themselves, like in Judge Dredd (with Stallone). The Judge's Sidearm the "Lawgiver Mark II" would inscribe the user's DNA on each bullet before it was fired.

Maybe we could come up with something like that in the not too distant future.

WYSIWYG · Guru

So, John could legally own a gun that he purchased in a shop, after a background check, and he can legally sell it to Bob without one, even though Bob is a convicted felon and would not pass the background check
- Dona Worry Be Happy

_________________________________

I believe that you may be mistaken.

It's my understanding that "John" can only legally sell the gun to "Bob" if he is of the understanding that "Bob" would pass a background check.

If "John" sells the gun to "Bob" knowing that "Bob" would fail a background check then "John" is guilty of at least something along the lines of "unlawful sale of a firearm to an ineligible individual" (I know that's not the legal term, but it's a good description of the illegal thing he would have done).

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan

Yes, flan, because the "oh we have to do SOMETHING" crowd results in a lot of bad and terrible and onerous laws. And by "do Something" you only mean for GOVT to do "something". For Govt to enact rules, laws, laws, laws which do nothing except hassle law abiding citizens and strip law abiding citizens of their rights in a supposedly free society.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
Burns said no such thing, Flan. Try reading.

Oh, please interpret his post for me.

What DOES he suggest?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The reason this country is in such a mess is because we have a reactionary govt and citizenry. Something bad happens so everyone yells "do something"! As if that solves or prevents anything. It is nothing but childish and immature emotionalism that is kissing a boo boo and patting people on the head so they can go home in smug self satisfaction that they have actually "done something" when in fact they did nothing at all.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Seriously, though. A government should be REQUIRED to enforce our laws. And if they don't, a moratorium should be imposed on them making new ones.

They are required to, but they arent' and are getting away with it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The reason this country is in such a mess is because we have a reactionary govt and citizenry. Something bad happens so everyone yells "do something"! As if that solves or prevents anything. It is nothing but childish and immature emotionalism that is kissing a boo boo and patting people on the head so they can go home in smug self satisfaction that they have actually "done something" when in fact they did nothing at all.

So what DO you suggest we do when "something bad" happens? Because I shudder to think that a day will come when people hear news of another mass shooting, and have NO reaction.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The reason this country is in such a mess is because we have a reactionary govt and citizenry. Something bad happens so everyone yells "do something"! As if that solves or prevents anything. It is nothing but childish and immature emotionalism that is kissing a boo boo and patting people on the head so they can go home in smug self satisfaction that they have actually "done something" when in fact they did nothing at all.
So what DO you suggest we do when "something bad" happens? Because I shudder to think that a day will come when people hear news of another mass shooting, and have NO reaction.
flan

You keep saying "do, do, do" as if your reaction or making some new stupid law is going to change anything. Here's what i "do". I work for a living. I pay taxes. I take care of my home and family. I volunteer in the community. I am raising my kids to be good people and law abiding citizens. I support judges and the legal system to have the authority to punish crime even to the point of the deathe penalty. I support a culture where we teach people that human beings arent' disposable garbage to be flushed down the drain or pierced on the end of stick to be tossed in the trash. I support maintaining our culture and not letting it rot and decay into chaos and atheism and nihilism. That's what i DO.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The reason this country is in such a mess is because we have a reactionary govt and citizenry. Something bad happens so everyone yells "do something"! As if that solves or prevents anything. It is nothing but childish and immature emotionalism that is kissing a boo boo and patting people on the head so they can go home in smug self satisfaction that they have actually "done something" when in fact they did nothing at all.
So what DO you suggest we do when "something bad" happens? Because I shudder to think that a day will come when people hear news of another mass shooting, and have NO reaction.
flan
You keep saying "do, do, do" as if your reaction or making some new stupid law is going to change anything. Here's what i "do". I work for a living. I pay taxes. I take care of my home and family. I volunteer in the community. I am raising my kids to be good people and law abiding citizens. I support judges and the legal system to have the authority to punish crime even to the point of the deathe penalty. I support a culture where we teach people that human beings arent' disposable garbage to be flushed down the drain or pierced on the end of stick to be tossed in the trash. I support maintaining our culture and not letting it rot and decay into chaos and atheism and nihilism. That's what i DO.

When you go there, I just can't take you seriously.

And, frankly, words are just words in this case.

flan

-- Edited by flan327 on Friday 22nd of January 2016 07:57:02 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I gave you a SERIOUS answer. But, you can't take it "seriously". Oh, ok, just go campaign for another stupid gun law then if that's what you want to do.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yeah and more laws on the books are just words on paper as well. The only purpose that gun laws serve are to disarm law abiding citizens because you aren't going to disarm criminals with gun laws. So, i can't take you seriously.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I gave you a SERIOUS answer. But, you can't take it "seriously". Oh, ok, just go campaign for another stupid gun law then if that's what you want to do.

You are much too smart to equate atheism with nihilism. THAT is not the problem. THAT does not cause senseless massacres.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I've only read page one so far, so forgive me if it's already been mentioned, but how about DNA tagging of the bullets themselves, like in Judge Dredd (with Stallone). The Judge's Sidearm the "Lawgiver Mark II" would inscribe the user's DNA on each bullet before it was fired.

Maybe we could come up with something like that in the not too distant future.

???? So to make ammo for shooting deer ungodly expensive and make it so stolen ammo ensures the wrong person will be accused. Great.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
Yes, flan, because the "oh we have to do SOMETHING" crowd results in a lot of bad and terrible and onerous laws. And by "do Something" you only mean for GOVT to do "something". For Govt to enact rules, laws, laws, laws which do nothing except hassle law abiding citizens and strip law abiding citizens of their rights in a supposedly free society.

Doing "something" is almost always worse than doing nothing, especially when the government is involved and that something is tantamount to doing nothing useful to correct the problem, anyway.

knee jerk reactions to immediate issues rarely turn out well.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Americans have always owned guns - that has not changed. What has changed is morality of this country and how kids are raised. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Americans have always owned guns - that has not changed. What has changed is morality of this country and how kids are raised. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.

Take God out of schools--the evil comes in.

TrudyML · Guru

FNW wrote:
I had to sign my life away to buy a friggin hamster.

How is that going?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Americans have always owned guns - that has not changed. What has changed is morality of this country and how kids are raised. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.
Take God out of schools--the evil comes in.

Look! husker has solved the problem...

It's been stated here before that many of the shooters are evil. What's the solution to that? "Educate" them when they're young?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You cant solve a moral problem with laws flan. Laws only work if people arw mostly self governing. There is no fear of God or Hell to commit immoral acts.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Americans have always owned guns - that has not changed. What has changed is morality of this country and how kids are raised. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.
Take God out of schools--the evil comes in.
Look! husker has solved the problem...
It's been stated here before that many of the shooters are evil. What's the solution to that? "Educate" them when they're young?
flan

???? As I've repeatedly stated, sometimes there is no solution. However, as society moves away from God, this isn't such a big surprise.

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
Burns said no such thing, Flan. Try reading.
Oh, please interpret his post for me.
What DOES he suggest?
flan

Why do I need to interpret his post for you? Are you having trouble comprehending what he said?

Burns did not make a suggestion. He pointed something that many on this thread have said - that laws will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns.

Do YOU have a suggestion for preventing criminals from obtaining guns? It is not law-abiding citizens who go on shooting sprees.

chef · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Americans have always owned guns - that has not changed. What has changed is morality of this country and how kids are raised. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.

This.

huskerbb · Guru

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
Burns said no such thing, Flan. Try reading.
Oh, please interpret his post for me.
What DOES he suggest?
flan
Why do I need to interpret his post for you? Are you having trouble comprehending what he said?
Burns did not make a suggestion. He pointed something that many on this thread have said - that laws will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns.
Do YOU have a suggestion for preventing criminals from obtaining guns? It is not law-abiding citizens who go on shooting sprees.

But sometimes it is, and there's the rub. Everyone is law abiding--until they aren't.

chef · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase firearms or ammunition does nothing to limit the ability of criminals to obtain firearms--nothing---amazes me how many gun control advocates cannot grasp this simple truth
So...another vote for "Let's do NOTHING!"
flan
Burns said no such thing, Flan. Try reading.
Oh, please interpret his post for me.
What DOES he suggest?
flan
Why do I need to interpret his post for you? Are you having trouble comprehending what he said?
Burns did not make a suggestion. He pointed something that many on this thread have said - that laws will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns.
Do YOU have a suggestion for preventing criminals from obtaining guns? It is not law-abiding citizens who go on shooting sprees.
But sometimes it is, and there's the rub. Everyone is law abiding--until they aren't.

Yes. But, that's not the problem. Sure, some people will crack and go on a shooting spree. I would guess those that do have an underlying mental illness. Most people would not go on shooting sprees regardless of what happens in their life. Some people just have a criminal bent and those are the ones that will get guns regardless of what the law says.

huskerbb · Guru

It's a crutch to blame mental illness. San Bernadino, for one, had nothing to do with that.

cadiver · Senior Member

My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

huskerbb · Guru

cadiver wrote:
My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun. Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

But what about, say, a teenager? Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I am having trouble with your post, cadiver, did spell check kick you?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

huskerbb wrote:
cadiver wrote:
My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.
As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun. Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

But what about, say, a teenager? Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

This is where firearm safety classes would be helpful. Teaching kids the basics of safety and how to disarm and properly handle different types of guns could make a world of difference.