TOTALLY GEEKED!

No UNSUPERVISED child. I thought that was implied.

flan

I was referencing flans post cadiver.

I hear the "kids are curious" argument in wanting to control guns.

But why are they curious?

There was a time when the household gun/rifle/shotgun hung over the fireplace or leaned in the corner.

It wasn't viewed as something to hide. It wasn't locked away.

It was a tool. As common as a pot holder.

ALL kids were taught to respect the gun and what it was used for.

They knew what it could do. And that it wasn't a toy.

Now. Kids are not taught that.

They see one and they want to touch it because it's forbidden.

They want to look at it, hold it, play with it. Because they have no real understanding of it.

Yes. Education is important.

But needs to be done right.

I have a feeling, any "class" in a school setting would paint the gun and gun owner as bad.

I've said you carry permit could be included with your drivers license and renewed with it.

For convenience if nothing else.

But I don't think and I don't want the government involved in my life any more than it has to be.

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

---

I am having trouble with your post, cadiver, did spell check kick you?

---

Maybe it is lack of coffee, or my abbreviated posting.  Anything in particular? 

I had a gun rack on my wall from the time I was 12. Urban people do not understand a LOT.

And I never shot anyone. Did your daughter?

cadiver wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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My 8 year old nephew goes hunting with his father all the time. Who are you to say he can't have his own gun?

---

I did not say he could not have his own gun, but if he kills his friend with it his parents should be held responsible. 

---

 No way--at least not necessarily.  

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

cadiver wrote:

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My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

---

 As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun.  Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

 

But what about, say, a teenager?  Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

 

 

---

 NO CHILD should ever be able to get a gun.

flan

---

 That's BS.  There was a 12 year old girl who shot an intruder.

 

LOTS of kids hunt, or shoot trap.  

 

My buddys 7 Year old shot trap with us two years ago on the 4th of July.

 

Your absurd statement is why gun control can never go anywhere.  You make wholly absurd proposals and statements.

---

 And how many MORE stories are there about kids who pick up a loaded gun & kill a friend or family member?

flan

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

cadiver wrote:

---

My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

---

 As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun.  Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

 

But what about, say, a teenager?  Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

 

 

---

 NO CHILD should ever be able to get a gun.

flan

---

 That's BS.  There was a 12 year old girl who shot an intruder.

 

LOTS of kids hunt, or shoot trap.  

 

My buddys 7 Year old shot trap with us two years ago on the 4th of July.

 

Your absurd statement is why gun control can never go anywhere.  You make wholly absurd proposals and statements.

---

 And how many MORE stories are there about kids who pick up a loaded gun & kill a friend or family member?

flan

---

 FAR, FAR, fewer, actually.  the number of accidental deaths of children due to guns is very low.  Those that another child causes are exceedingly rare.

flan327 wrote:

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Tinydancer wrote:

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It wasn't implied flan. You really believe no one should have a gun...

---

 Don't you DARE tell me what I believe.

flan

---

 How DARE I? I've seen your posts and that's what you say. You really shouldn't say it if it's not how you feel.

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

cadiver wrote:

---

My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

---

 As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun.  Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

 

But what about, say, a teenager?  Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

 

 

---

 NO CHILD should ever be able to get a gun.

flan

---

 That's BS.  There was a 12 year old girl who shot an intruder.

 

LOTS of kids hunt, or shoot trap.  

 

My buddys 7 Year old shot trap with us two years ago on the 4th of July.

 

Your absurd statement is why gun control can never go anywhere.  You make wholly absurd proposals and statements.

---

 And how many MORE stories are there about kids who pick up a loaded gun & kill a friend or family member?

flan

---

 FAR, FAR, fewer, actually.  the number of accidental deaths of children due to guns is very low.  Those that another child causes are exceedingly rare.

---

 I meant that it was rare for a tween to actually have the presence of mind to shoot an intruder, NOT that kids could not be taken hunting with a responsible adult.

flan

---

 The number of children who die in gun accidents is very low.  It doesn't even register as a cause of children's deaths.  

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

WYSIWYG wrote:

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???? So to make ammo for shooting deer ungodly expensive and make it so stolen ammo ensures the wrong person will be accused. Great.
- huskerbb

_________________________

You must have misread my post, or never saw "Judge Dredd".

The DNA is sampled when the weapon is fired. Then the weapon imprints the DNA code onto the bullet. Unless you have an identical DNA twin, "the wrong person"s DNA couldn't be on the bullet so "the wrong person" couldn't be accused (that's how Dredd got accused in the movie, because his DNA twin killed the people that were murdered, so obviously the bullet had DNA matching him).

Regarding expense, The ammo wouldn't necessarily be that much more expensive as it's the weapon that imprints the DNA code onto the ammo.

---

Um, there are already more than 300 MILLION guns in circulation.  If you don't put the tech into the ammo, it will have almost no effect.   

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 It's not MY decision...nor can I take care of 4000 unwanted children.

flan

---

 Wow.  I mean, WOW.  So children's lives are only important if they were wanted? 

---

Of course.  That's the liberal mantra.  They wouldn't even care if all the unwanted kids who are already born just died--but that would be very un-PC to say out loud.  

weltschmerz wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 It's not MY decision...nor can I take care of 4000 unwanted children.

flan

---

 Wow.  I mean, WOW.  So children's lives are only important if they were wanted? 

---

Of course.  That's the liberal mantra.  They wouldn't even care if all the unwanted kids who are already born just died--but that would be very un-PC to say out loud.  

---

 What a load of crap! Got any proof? A link? Something?

---

Thousands of posts on this board.  It's easier to kill unwanted kids than care for them--there is no difference if it is done the day before birth--or the day after, or year(s) after.  

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 Funny how you and Lily only care about kids before they are born. 

---

 Where do you get that nonsense?  

 

 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 Funny how you and Lily only care about kids before they are born. 

---

 Pretty darn sure they cared for the kids that resulted from their pregnancies.  

gun related deaths among children are usually ( but not always ) accidental--still, a very small number overall--how many children die in auto accidents everyday in this country ?--and there aren't anywhere near 300m vehicles in this country

weltschmerz wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

cadiver wrote:

---

My changes,

States should be go shall issue rather than may issue Concealed Carry
Allow carry in state parks

Mandatory training including shooting for CC

Tighten the definition of Licensed Firearm Dealer to include more sellers (so what the new proposal is)

I am still contemplating something such as a bullet button on rifles. I haven't made up on my mind on that one. Though I am against capacity restrictions on hand guns.

I think laws holding parents responsible when the toddler gets a gun and shoots someone need to be looked at. Though you want to hold them responsible if the kid accidently kill themselves is it much different than if the kid died in an unsecured pool or poison. When the kid kills their friend the punishment to the parent could be greater.

Most school shootings seem to be because of a connection to the school, not searching for a random soft target. I really have no strong opinion on armed teachers or guards. I think more accidents could happen with teachers, but I believe Utah has allowed teachers CC for years and I have not heard anything.

---

 As to the toddler thing--or for any child--it depends on how they got the gun.  Certainly, leaving one in a purse or bedside drawer where they have easy access maybe should convey liability.

 

But what about, say, a teenager?  Hell, at some point if the fun is for home defense, you will necessarily teach the kid where the gun is and how to use it.

 

 

---

 NO CHILD should ever be able to get a gun.

flan

---

 That's BS.  There was a 12 year old girl who shot an intruder.

 

LOTS of kids hunt, or shoot trap.  

 

My buddys 7 Year old shot trap with us two years ago on the 4th of July.

 

Your absurd statement is why gun control can never go anywhere.  You make wholly absurd proposals and statements.

---

 And how many MORE stories are there about kids who pick up a loaded gun & kill a friend or family member?

flan

---

 FAR, FAR, fewer, actually.  the number of accidental deaths of children due to guns is very low.  Those that another child causes are exceedingly rare.

---

 Very low? Nine times higher than anywhere else in the world.

 

Over the past year, new studies and media reports have documented America’s extraordinary number of child-involved shootings. These occur when a child happens upon a gun, or is left alone with one, and ends up shooting themselves or another person. Such disasters result in hundreds of child fatalities and have made American children nine times more likely to die in gun accidents than children anywhere else in the developed world. These deaths pose a massive challenge for the NRA. They demonstrate fairly conclusively that guns cannot be both safe and ubiquitous; the inevitable consequence of widespread gun ownership is a never-ending series of tragedies involving children. But, desperate to insist there’s nothing wrong, the NRA has proved itself totally incapable of responding to the problem.

 The stories are endless and gruesome. A toddler shoots an infant while they are left alone in a car. A five-year-old boy shoots a three-year-old girl. And so on, ad infinitum. In Texas last month, the sheriff of Houston pleaded despairingly with the public after three children were shot dead in four days. And in widely reported Idaho incident, a two-year-old shot his mother to death in a Walmart after fnding a gun in her handbag.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/09/deaths-of-children-are-the-most-devastating-effect-of-our-gun-culture-the-nra-has-no-idea-what-to-say-about-them/

 

 

 

---

 You are dead wrong.  In any given year, only about 100-150 children die in accidents related to firearms.  Compared to the 300 MILLION guns in private hands in this nation--there is a MINISCULE chance that any one gun will be involved in such an incident. 

No one says that when it happens it isn't tragic or gruesome.  Someone who dies by falling into a wood chipper is gruesome, too--but that doesn't mean it is a common occurence.  

 

Also, the stories are NOT  "endless".  That is a ridiculous characterization.  They are very rare and finite. 

Sooo you want gun control but you own guns. Which gun laws would have prevented these crimes?

huskerbb wrote:

---

weltschmerz wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 It's not MY decision...nor can I take care of 4000 unwanted children.

flan

---

 Wow.  I mean, WOW.  So children's lives are only important if they were wanted? 

---

Of course.  That's the liberal mantra.  They wouldn't even care if all the unwanted kids who are already born just died--but that would be very un-PC to say out loud.  

---

 What a load of crap! Got any proof? A link? Something?

---

Thousands of posts on this board.  It's easier to kill unwanted kids than care for them--there is no difference if it is done the day before birth--or the day after, or year(s) after.  

---

 Then it should be a piece of cake to quote even ONE post where ANYONE advocated killing a child YEARS after they were born...

flan

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

weltschmerz wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 It's not MY decision...nor can I take care of 4000 unwanted children.

flan

---

 Wow.  I mean, WOW.  So children's lives are only important if they were wanted? 

---

Of course.  That's the liberal mantra.  They wouldn't even care if all the unwanted kids who are already born just died--but that would be very un-PC to say out loud.  

---

 What a load of crap! Got any proof? A link? Something?

---

Thousands of posts on this board.  It's easier to kill unwanted kids than care for them--there is no difference if it is done the day before birth--or the day after, or year(s) after.  

---

 Then it should be a piece of cake to quote even ONE post where ANYONE advocated killing a child YEARS after they were born...

flan

---

 Before--after

 

Same difference. 

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

weltschmerz wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

Funny how the great lovers of children here dont bat an eyelash at 4000 abortions per day.

---

 It's not MY decision...nor can I take care of 4000 unwanted children.

flan

---

 Wow.  I mean, WOW.  So children's lives are only important if they were wanted? 

---

Of course.  That's the liberal mantra.  They wouldn't even care if all the unwanted kids who are already born just died--but that would be very un-PC to say out loud.  

---

 What a load of crap! Got any proof? A link? Something?

---

Thousands of posts on this board.  It's easier to kill unwanted kids than care for them--there is no difference if it is done the day before birth--or the day after, or year(s) after.  

---

 Then it should be a piece of cake to quote even ONE post where ANYONE advocated killing a child YEARS after they were born...

flan

---

 Before--after

 

Same difference. 

---

 Just like "up" and "down" are the same thing...

Ask ANY preschooler & they can explain the difference to you if you don't understand it.

flan

---

 Show them pictures of babies aborted at 24 weeks, and babies who are still born.  They will certainly educate you. 

flan327 wrote:

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I understand the difference.

And 24 weeks is too late for an abortion.

flan

---

There is no difference.