TOTALLY GEEKED!

Ohfour · Hooker

RE: Should she take her minor sister for an abortion?

huskerbb · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.

Bull. It's not "minor", and I would definitely consider it surgery. It is an invasive procedure.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Ok from all you posted I have earned a really nice gift for enduring the procedure without drugs. I like lilies, milk chocolate, red wine,....

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ok from all you posted I have earned a really nice gift for enduring the procedure without drugs. I like lilies, milk chocolate, red wine,....

I can't even talk about how awful my experience was.

The least they could do, after screwing up, big time...was knock me out, for the D&C.

At least, they did that. cry

I'm so sorry you had a bad experience, IKWTDS.

My heart hurts, that you had to go through it, awake.

Hugs to you.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ok from all you posted I have earned a really nice gift for enduring the procedure without drugs. I like lilies, milk chocolate, red wine,....

I'm a lily!

She likes me! She really likes me! biggrin

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.
Any time you are put to sleep is surgery to me....
You aren't put to sleep during a D&C and that is the same procedure as an abortion.

Yes you are.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ok from all you posted I have earned a really nice gift for enduring the procedure without drugs. I like lilies, milk chocolate, red wine,....
I'm a lily!
She likes me! She really likes me!

Are you sending me chocolate?

Ohfour · Hooker

Absolutely!!!!! Lol!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
If I found out anyone helped my underage child have a medical procedure without my knowledge or permission, excluding life saving needs, I'd probably be their worst nightmare.

They'd be needing a procedure or two, themselves.
Absolutely...

Well, then you would all likely lose both daughters (in this case).

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Abortion is surgery. Wow what ignorance.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Abortion is surgery. Wow what ignorance.

Not ignorance, experience with D&C. Get your facts straight. Abortion is only surgery when done at a late stage, when, in fact, it is now induced labor unless a c section is needed.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Wrong.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ok from all you posted I have earned a really nice gift for enduring the procedure without drugs. I like lilies, milk chocolate, red wine,....
I'm a lily!
She likes me! She really likes me!
Are you sending me chocolate?

SURE!!!!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Let's pretend it's not a baby. Let's pretend it's not surgery. What else can we pretend today?

NAOW · Vette's SS

For me, it's not even the surgery part. It's that this is a big decision, there are a lot of issues to discuss and work through.

How do you know the little sister isn't making this decision in fear? To just make it go away? There are a lot of variables here and as a parent I would want to walk her through all of them so that 10, 20, 50 years from now she feels confident in her choice, whatever it may be. If she chose to get an abortion anyway, I would be sad and disappointed but I would not disown her or abuse her or anything else people seem to assume conservative parents do.

So many people are so blinded by 'her body her choice' that they don't stop to think she is going to have to live with this choice for the rest of her life, so making sure she truly understands what she is giving up matters.

chef · Guru

I'm trying to imagine what I would do in such a circumstance but I don't have siblings so I tried to imagine what I would do if DS' girlfriend asked me to do such a thing. I can only come up with a resounding no. I would offer to watch my grandbaby while she was in school. I would be ok with her moving in with us (or with DS moving in with her and her parents). There is no way I would take her to have an abortion. That's my grandbaby and I will not play a role in my grandbaby's murder.

If I had a daughter, she would understand that sex can lead to pregnancy and that we do not support abortion. She would also know that her dad and I would be upset that she made a poor choice but that we would watch our grandbaby while she goes to school. We would be livid if she had an abortion.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Chalk up another person who had a D&C without being put to sleep. Twice.

Lindley · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.

One of my suppliers niece died from having a legal abortion. Sometimes things happen in even minor procedures and that is why I think a parent should always be the one giving consent to a minor.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lots of Surgery is done under sedation versus general anesthesia. It's still surgery. Not sure why we are even arguing about that.

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.
Any time you are put to sleep is surgery to me....

They don't usually "put you to sleep" for an abortion.

The general anaesthetic could be more dangerous than the abortion itself.

WYSIWYG · Guru

This one is a tough one and I really didn't like Prudie's answer.

On the one hand the big sister doesn't think anyone should be forced to have a baby, so the thought of someone having an abortion isn't against her beliefs.
On the other hand, her little sister is asking her to go behind their parents' backs. so she's asking the big sister to deceive their parents.

The little sister is putting her big sister in an awfully hard place. I don't know what advice I would give. I hope I never have to give advice for this kind of situation.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
Chalk up another person who had a D&C without being put to sleep. Twice.

I had no idea. Mine was in 1987 (I think).

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Chalk up another person who had a D&C without being put to sleep. Twice.

I knew I couldn't be the only one!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lots of Surgery is done under sedation versus general anesthesia. It's still surgery. Not sure why we are even arguing about that.

Are you new here?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.
Any time you are put to sleep is surgery to me....
They don't usually "put you to sleep" for an abortion.
The general anaesthetic could be more dangerous than the abortion itself.

Let's not forget...childbirth is more dangerous than abortion. Yes, the very act of giving birth statistically even in modern times has worse outcomes for the mother than abortions. So if we are concerned about the woman's well being, giving birth is the more dangerous of the two options.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh, well, then abortions for all! But, let's not forget, that abortion is 100% FATAL to infants whereas childbirth is not. Oh, yeh, but i forgot, the Well Being of the child doesnt' matter.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.
Any time you are put to sleep is surgery to me....
They don't usually "put you to sleep" for an abortion.
The general anaesthetic could be more dangerous than the abortion itself.
Let's not forget...childbirth is more dangerous than abortion. Yes, the very act of giving birth statistically even in modern times has worse outcomes for the mother than abortions. So if we are concerned about the woman's well being, giving birth is the more dangerous of the two options.

Oh, well, in that case, every pregnancy should be aborted.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Yeah, get back to us when you figure out a way to do that.

Some women who get pregnant ARE actually using birth control. Some may not actually understand when they are fertile. I'm not going to judge a woman for her decision, or call her a slut, or say she should be sterilized...

flan

FNW · Guru

I was put to sleep for my D&C following miscarriage as well.

I would tell my parents. When lil' sis wasn't around. In public so the parents couldn't make a scene. Give them time to process it before dealing with the situation.

The girl who lives behind me got pregnant in her senior year. I'm not sure if she was 18 yet or not. She comes from a strict Mormon family. I understand she planned giving him up for adoption, but in her last few weeks decided to keep him. I don't know how the parents handled it, because I didn't know she was pregnant until she waddled over to see the boys and bring presents when I brought them home from the hospital. Her mother commented, "see, it's much easier when you have another person to help you." She looked embarrassed but I just commented, "it does take a village" and she smiled.

Fast forward to the present and she has been a very good mother and the boy is delightful. She recently got married to a nice guy, and the boy calls him "Dad." They are currently living in the in-law suite until they can save enough money to get their own place, and so the boy can finish the school year in the same school. The parents gave him a job at the family business and all is well.

Abortion isn't the only option. This lil' sister will need a lot of support during this time. And unless the parents are abusive SOBs, they will be there for her (after they cool off) to provide it. And unless they are abusive SOBs, they have the right to know.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't think a minor should have ANY procedure without parental consent.

Including abortion.

Kids can't even decide for themselves to take an aspirin in school, and yet invasive surgery they can decide on without ant parental involvement? Stupid.
An abortion isn't surgery, it's a procedure and minor at that. But I understand and agree with your point.
Any time you are put to sleep is surgery to me....
They don't usually "put you to sleep" for an abortion.
The general anaesthetic could be more dangerous than the abortion itself.
Let's not forget...childbirth is more dangerous than abortion. Yes, the very act of giving birth statistically even in modern times has worse outcomes for the mother than abortions. So if we are concerned about the woman's well being, giving birth is the more dangerous of the two options.

Oh, so every child should be aborted, then. got it.

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Does anyone expect that to happen?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Well. That's how I've raised my kids.

You don't want a baby? This is how you keep it from happening.

So yes. I do expect that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Well, since it hasn't happened since the dawn of time, what are the chances of it ever happening?

flan

ed11563 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.

Dream on.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And I also taught them that if and when they do become parents, they are to take care of their responsibilities.

That doesn't mean killing the child or walking away from the child.

So don't have a baby until you are ready for that responsibility.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Well, since it hasn't happened since the dawn of time, what are the chances of it ever happening?
flan

Actually, it most certainly did. Since abortion became legal, the number of unwanted pregnancies has skyrocketed. It used to be shameful to get pregnant when you weren't married. Did it happen? Of course, but not anywhere near the rate it does now.

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Well. That's how I've raised my kids.
You don't want a baby? This is how you keep it from happening.
So yes. I do expect that.

Of everyone?

you and I raised responsible children, some others haven't, some just don't or can't

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.

Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Well. That's how I've raised my kids.
You don't want a baby? This is how you keep it from happening.
So yes. I do expect that.

Of everyone?
you and I raised responsible children, some others haven't, some just don't or can't

You know what? It has to start somewhere.

And if my expectations are too high, too bad.

Murder should never be an option.

There ARE ways to prevent pregnancy that are 100% effective.

Of course it means self control.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.
Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.

His attitude is realistic. No one can control how another person parents.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.
Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.
His attitude is realistic. No one can control how another person parents.
flan

You can give people reasonable options for BC and expect that they use it or abstain if they are not ready to be a parent. And you can expect people to be responsible for their choices. You talk about choice? The first choice people make that leads to unwanted pregnancy is to have sex without proper precations.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And yes, we can EXPECT things of others. We expect people to follow the rules of the road when they drive. We expect people not to rob banks. We expect people to work for a living (well, we SHOULD).

Get rid of the expectation, and you remove most of the incentive.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:

And yes, we can EXPECT things of others. We expect people to follow the rules of the road when they drive. We expect people not to rob banks. We expect people to work for a living (well, we SHOULD).

Get rid of the expectation, and you remove most of the incentive.

Yet very few people observe the speed limit, use their turn signals, or their lights on a dark morning, which is different from robbing a bank.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.
Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.
His attitude is realistic. No one can control how another person parents.
flan
You can give people reasonable options for BC and expect that they use it or abstain if they are not ready to be a parent. And you can expect people to be responsible for their choices. You talk about choice? The first choice people make that leads to unwanted pregnancy is to have sex without proper precations.

Yet how many people think: "It won't happen to me?"

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.
Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.
His attitude is realistic. No one can control how another person parents.
flan
You can give people reasonable options for BC and expect that they use it or abstain if they are not ready to be a parent. And you can expect people to be responsible for their choices. You talk about choice? The first choice people make that leads to unwanted pregnancy is to have sex without proper precations.
Yet how many people think: "It won't happen to me?"
flan

The hopelessly ignorant ones...The very ones that should not be having sex because they are so stupid.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Look.

The continuous arguing over abortion would stop if women would take their reproductive rights and health seriously BEFORE they pregnant.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does anyone expect that to happen?

Not if there is no expectation of it. You have to actually EXPECT it to happen and make it a priority.
Dream on.
Well, attitudes like yours certainly aren't working.
His attitude is realistic. No one can control how another person parents.
flan
You can give people reasonable options for BC and expect that they use it or abstain if they are not ready to be a parent. And you can expect people to be responsible for their choices. You talk about choice? The first choice people make that leads to unwanted pregnancy is to have sex without proper precations.
Yet how many people think: "It won't happen to me?"
flan

That is them being stupid. It doesn't excuse it, and it certainly shouldn't just be accepted.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

And yes, we can EXPECT things of others. We expect people to follow the rules of the road when they drive. We expect people not to rob banks. We expect people to work for a living (well, we SHOULD).

Get rid of the expectation, and you remove most of the incentive.
Yet very few people observe the speed limit, use their turn signals, or their lights on a dark morning, which is different from robbing a bank.
flan

"Very few"? I call BS. Especially since most cars now have automatic lights.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

And yes, we can EXPECT things of others. We expect people to follow the rules of the road when they drive. We expect people not to rob banks. We expect people to work for a living (well, we SHOULD).

Get rid of the expectation, and you remove most of the incentive.
Yet very few people observe the speed limit, use their turn signals, or their lights on a dark morning, which is different from robbing a bank.
flan
"Very few"? I call BS. Especially since most cars now have automatic lights.

And there are penalties for those things if you get caught. But yes, let's compare failing to signal with making a baby. The ridiculous logic boggles the mind.