TOTALLY GEEKED!

FNW · Guru

RE: Odd thing for a Doctor to say

ed11563 · Guru

FNW wrote:
It's actually very difficult to conjure up a conspiracy among professional who are all (or most of them) out to line their own wallets.
Sure, some guys have highly aggressive tumors, and even chemo won't save them. Just like many of the women who get breast cancer in their 20's or early 30's, the most common form they get is VERY aggressive and usually metastasizes before it's even discovered.
I knew two young women, a coworker and my (then) dentist's wife, who were diagnosed then died within 6 months.

How much money would they make if the patient declined treatment?

Cherrios, I am very happy to hear it's working for you, and hope it continues to do so.

Very likely some of those patients would keep coming back for office visits and more testing. This gives them an ongoing revenue stream until the patient dies.

FNW · Guru

I understand doctors and pharmacy companies don't make as much now with socialized medical insurance.

ed11563 · Guru

FNW wrote:
I understand doctors and pharmacy companies don't make as much now with socialized medical insurance.

I haven't seen that at all. In fact, I think the opposite is true.

weltschmerz · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
FNW wrote:
It's actually very difficult to conjure up a conspiracy among professional who are all (or most of them) out to line their own wallets.
Sure, some guys have highly aggressive tumors, and even chemo won't save them. Just like many of the women who get breast cancer in their 20's or early 30's, the most common form they get is VERY aggressive and usually metastasizes before it's even discovered.
I knew two young women, a coworker and my (then) dentist's wife, who were diagnosed then died within 6 months.

How much money would they make if the patient declined treatment?

Cherrios, I am very happy to hear it's working for you, and hope it continues to do so.
Very likely some of those patients would keep coming back for office visits and more testing. This gives them an ongoing revenue stream until the patient dies.

Are your doctors hurting for patients?

I've heard of waiting stupid amounts of time in the waiting room because the doc has squeezed so many into one day.

I've heard of being rushed through appointments, because the doc is so booked up.

I've heard of being seen by NPs and PAs because the doctors are just so busy.

More and more people are getting older, and need increased medical care, as well.

It really wouldn't be in a doctor's best interest to string patients along until they die. It's ludicrous.

Are your doctors so hard up?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

The patient ASKED him. I would not go to a doctor who was not honest with me.

The doctor has likely seen any specific disease play out among various patients.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

ed11563 wrote:
FNW wrote:
I understand doctors and pharmacy companies don't make as much now with socialized medical insurance.
I haven't seen that at all. In fact, I think the opposite is true.

That's exactly what the people in the field that I know say as well. They are making more than ever.

ed11563 · Guru

When Medicare was first being formed, the doctors and the AMA fought it tooth and nail, saying it would drive most of the doctors out of business.

Instead, it made most of them much more wealthy. But they did have to adapt.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

The patient ASKED him. I would not go to a doctor who was not honest with me.
The doctor has likely seen any specific disease play out among various patients.
flan

I want honesty from my doctor, not false hope. I want to be informed. You can do this, but it is going to cause a lot of other problems, may cause other complications and has X chance to be truly successful. Give me the truth about my condition and the real truth about the prognosis with no sugar coating. ANd, then let me make the decision for myself.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

The patient ASKED him. I would not go to a doctor who was not honest with me.
The doctor has likely seen any specific disease play out among various patients.
flan
I want honesty from my doctor, not false hope. I want to be informed. You can do this, but it is going to cause a lot of other problems, may cause other complications and has X chance to be truly successful. Give me the truth about my condition and the real truth about the prognosis with no sugar coating. ANd, then let me make the decision for myself.

I agree, and don't judge me...whatever decision I make.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

I'm in my 40's--and I'm not even sure a colostomy bag is what I'd want for the rest of my life.

By the time I'm in my 60's--I'm fairly certain it would not be.

Let's say he does it--is he truly buying decades more life? There's no guarantees the cancer won't come back. He's probably getting a few years, at most.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
I'm in my 40's--and I'm not even sure a colostomy bag is what I'd want for the rest of my life.

By the time I'm in my 60's--I'm fairly certain it would not be.

Let's say he does it--is he truly buying decades more life? There's no guarantees the cancer won't come back. He's probably getting a few years, at most.

Maybe.

But I want every second I can have.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

QUALITY of life is more important to me than QUANTITY.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

flan327 wrote:
QUALITY of life is more important to me than QUANTITY.

flan

Absolutely!

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm in my 40's--and I'm not even sure a colostomy bag is what I'd want for the rest of my life.

By the time I'm in my 60's--I'm fairly certain it would not be.

Let's say he does it--is he truly buying decades more life? There's no guarantees the cancer won't come back. He's probably getting a few years, at most.
Maybe.
But I want every second I can have.

I don't. Life is precious--but it has to be LIFE.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Neither should Christians be so afraid of death that they prolong Death rather than life.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Who is afraid? I don't want to leave my kids.

I want to see my grandkids.

I want to live until I'm dead.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well you will.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well you will.

The only question is "HOW?"

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She said " i want to live until i am dead". So, i said, "well, you will". As will everyonen live until they are dead.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
She said " i want to live until i am dead". So, i said, "well, you will". As will everyonen live until they are dead.

Yes, just because your heart is beating, you are technically alive.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well you will.

Yes. And I want every second I can get.

I'm not a quitter. Don't have that in me.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And probably being followed around on a message board having snide and snarky comments directed at me.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.

Well, I'm not going to kill myself.

I'm going to live until I die.

If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.
Well, I'm not going to kill myself.
I'm going to live until I die.
If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.

Who said "kill yourself"? That isn't I am talking about. I am talking about being able to make medical decisions for myself. If i have a terminal illness, then i may choose to not subject myself to chemo, surgery, dialysis or endless invasive tubes and procedures. If you wish too, you may.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.
Well, I'm not going to kill myself.
I'm going to live until I die.
If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.

You have NO right to judge anyone else's decision.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.
Well, I'm not going to kill myself.
I'm going to live until I die.
If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.
You have NO right to judge anyone else's decision.
flan

Well, someone can "judge" whatever they want to judge. I am going to do what I choose to do as an adult.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.
Well, I'm not going to kill myself.
I'm going to live until I die.
If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.
Who said "kill yourself"? That isn't I am talking about. I am talking about being able to make medical decisions for myself. If i have a terminal illness, then i may choose to not subject myself to chemo, surgery, dialysis or endless invasive tubes and procedures. If you wish too, you may.

LGS,

You've spoken about your mother's illness on here & I've spoken about mine. Those experiences shape our decisions about our own life.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
And probably being followed around on a message board having snide and snarky comments directed at me.

As will I. So what?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Of course. There is a difference between effective medical treatments and end of life futility. There is a point where the suffering endured is not going to produce any gains. And, doctors should be very frank in discussing this. We tend to gloss over the suffering that many of these end of life treatments. We aren't meant to live forever. There are treatments that might keep your body alive long after you have lost your brain. There are treatments that are intense and painful but will not do a THING to improve or change the outcome of the terminal condition.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Of course. There is a difference between effective medical treatments and end of life futility. There is a point where the suffering endured is not going to produce any gains. And, doctors should be very frank in discussing this. We tend to gloss over the suffering that many of these end of life treatments. We aren't meant to live forever. There are treatments that might keep your body alive long after you have lost your brain. There are treatments that are intense and painful but will not do a THING to improve or change the outcome of the terminal condition.

I definitely agree.

Your last statement pretty much describes what Mom went through, and that was her decision.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I have no intention of stubbornly clinging to life on machines if I cannot be cured - there is no reason to prolong suffering. I am confident in going to a better place, so when my time comes, I'm not going to fight it. And I don't consider that quitting or giving up.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I have no intention of stubbornly clinging to life on machines if I cannot be cured - there is no reason to prolong suffering. I am confident in going to a better place, so when my time comes, I'm not going to fight it. And I don't consider that quitting or giving up.

Yeah, it isn't "quitting or giving up" to acknowledge REALITY. It's called "acknowleding and facing reality". It doesn't have to be couched in terms of "being a quitter or giving up". That's ridiculous.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I think not fighting is quitting.

My opinion.

I don't know any other way.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Then re-read the post directly above yours.

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I once had an 89 year old man on dialysis. He never wanted to be on dialysis in the first place. But he and his wife had been married 70 years and she wanted him to be there. So he did. He had no real quality of life. And there was no way he was getting a transplant. One day his wife died. After that he said no more. He didn't want to do it. He had only done it for her anyway. He said his time go had come and gone a long time ago. It wasn't depression he was speaking of either. He had never wanted to be on dialysis in the first place. I told him he had the right to end treatment. I got written up for that. I don't regret it though. Our doctor wanted to keep him on dialysis until the day he died. He was ready to die. Let him go. He had no wife, his children were grown with grand children of their own, everyone had their own lives though they loved him dearly. He was ready.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

My FIL is going through this now. He's going to be going on to dialysis after swearing 5 years ago he never would. But my MIL is not ready to let him go, so he'll do it for her.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

It's a very sad thing for people to go through. Working in nursing homes most of my career, not all, I worked with many dying patients. Some of the families would come to me and tell me how their loved one was hanging on. They would ask when they would die. Or what they could say or do to make their loved one feel better. I would often ask them if they'd given their loved one permission to die. Sometimes people hang on until the last moment thinking of the grief they will cause. I have literally watched many families tell their loved one it was okay to let go. Very shortly after that they would.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I think not fighting is quitting.

My opinion.

I don't know any other way.

Saying you aren't going to accept certain treatments doesn't mean you aren't "fighting".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
It's a very sad thing for people to go through. Working in nursing homes most of my career, not all, I worked with many dying patients. Some of the families would come to me and tell me how their loved one was hanging on. They would ask when they would die. Or what they could say or do to make their loved one feel better. I would often ask them if they'd given their loved one permission to die. Sometimes people hang on until the last moment thinking of the grief they will cause. I have literally watched many families tell their loved one it was okay to let go. Very shortly after that they would.

I saw my mother 2 days before she died & I did tell her that it was okay for her to go.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
There is a difference in prolonging death versus prolonging life.
Well, I'm not going to kill myself.
I'm going to live until I die.
If you're not a quitter, you'll understand what that means.

NO ONE said anything about killing themselves.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

We've heard plenty of times the "right to die" argument and those who support euthanasia.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
We've heard plenty of times the "right to die" argument and those who support euthanasia.

But not on this thread. That was NOT the topic.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've heard plenty of times the "right to die" argument and those who support euthanasia.

But not on this thread. That was NOT the topic.

Nope, not the topic at all.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've heard plenty of times the "right to die" argument and those who support euthanasia.

But not on this thread. That was NOT the topic.

The topic? Really?

It's a discussion.

Other ideas, thoughts and points are part of conversation.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've heard plenty of times the "right to die" argument and those who support euthanasia.

But not on this thread. That was NOT the topic.
The topic? Really?
It's a discussion.
Other ideas, thoughts and points are part of conversation.

BS. You equated it directly with not "being a quitter". It wasn't about another "idea".

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yeah.

I did.

Not BS.

In my opinion, not fighting is quitting.

And choosing to end your life is quitting.

It's my opinion.

No one has to agree with.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I think not fighting is quitting.

My opinion.

I don't know any other way.
Saying you aren't going to accept certain treatments doesn't mean you aren't "fighting".

Which is NOT the same thing as euthanasia.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Yeah.

I did.

Not BS.

In my opinion, not fighting is quitting.

And choosing to end your life is quitting.

It's my opinion.

No one has to agree with.

What I said. BS.